Racist/AA Dinner Question

[hendershot]

I hope this is in the right place. Anyways, myself and some AA friends always go out to dinner before a meeting once a week and make an effort to invite as many other AAers as possible. One person who has been coming is a big-time racist, something we were oblvious of until he started ranting about segregation and interracial marriage. What mitigates his behavior somewhat is that he is incredibly socially awkward and seems to have some kind of mental disorder or maybe just damage from drug use. Not really sure as I am not a psychiatrist.
My group is divided as to whether we should continue to invite him or not. I tend to think we shouldn't on an emotional level but in terms of what is right to do in the AA context that we should continue too. He doesn't seem to do much fellowship at all and seems to enjoy going to dinner with us. But it has become incredibly awkward for the rest of us. I was just wondering what your thoughts would be about what the "right" thing to do would be in this situation? To continue inviting him or blowing him off or what. He doesn't seem to understand why his views would be unacceptable to us which is maybe the most troubling aspect of it. Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks.

[TTOSBT]

Has anyone (male preferably) tried to take him aside to discuss?
I would think that he deserves a chance to choose whether he wants to curb his vocalization of these views so that he can still enjoy the fellowship.....
But that said....some are sicker than others, no matter how long they have been sober.

[tommyk]

Yup, time for a private conversation.

[Puddy]

Tell him to knock that sh!t off or go find some hate group to hang out with. Embarass the crap out of him, right at the table. He'll learn or he'll leave.

Then go pray for him.

[miss communicat]

racism, or any other mental problem, is not an AA issue, therefore, the decision whether or not to include this fellow in terms of "what is right to do in the AA context " (your words)is separate from AA.

social ineptitude however, does seem to go hand in hand with alcoholism, and from your description of the awkwardness on all parts, it sounds like y'all are a bit socially inept as to how to deal with the face of evil.

me, i'd speak right up.But I'd lob that ball right back into its owner's court. There are several effective ways to get someone to own their ****. Here are several that I find helpful:

1. "Stop talikng that way or go"
2. "Did you just say. "_______"?"(fill in blank with comment.
Then, say, #1
3. Ask this guy to repeat the offensive comment 3 times. Say that you did not hear him. Each time he repaets it he will have to face himself squarely. Its not pretty to hear yourself spewing hatred. Then, revert to #1.

The only way I'd continue to share dinner or other time with the duy is if he becomes willing to grow and to change. Otherwise, I'd be teaching him that racism is ok/

ITs not.

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by miss communicat

1. "Stop talikng that way or go"

To the point for sure. I've pointed out to others in my present company that I will not tolerate racist behavior. Either contain oneself or move on.

[jimhere]

Invite him or not.

I pick and choose who I hang with.

[Blake'sTyger]

My two cents:

You're not actually doing this cat any favors by allowing his words and behaviors to slide without consequence. If you don't express that such things aren't okay with you, then I think you're wordlessly sending a message that they are alright.

It might be a real surprise to him when he finds out that other people or groups aren't so "AA minded" (ie forgiving and empathetic).

I'm squarely in the camp recommending talking to him privately (done by someone strong and unwavering, yet as non threatening as possible).

Lesson: If you act like someone people don't want to be around....people won't be around!

...just one cat's opinion.

Dave

[hendershot]

Thanks for the suggestions. There is probably some social ineptness by all parties regarding this. We have talked to him about it and he backpeddled some but responded more along the lines as being sorry to have offended us than sorry he feels the way he does. Probably do need to have a more serious conversation with him.
Being so focused on trying to empathize and considering him to be sick like the rest of us, I overlooked the possibility that by not more forcefully condeming his comments we were actually tacitly encouraging his behavior. That is good stuff to realize. Thanks.

[bballdad]

I have a friend who i will not go out to eat with,because for some reason as soon as we sit down in a place,he starts talking loud and nasty.

your friends opinion is his opinion.He has a right to free speech,but there is such a thing as being considerate of others.

[CarolD]

When a co worker spouted off about mixed marriages
I smiled sweetly and lied
"My Mom is x Dad is y".
I heard no more racist remarks from her.

Yes...we continued to work together pleasantly.

[jimhere]

I have a co-worker who professes to be a Christian. One day he made a really nasty remark about a woman who is in management. She is a Unitarian. He called her the Unitarian b***h.

I asked "Would Jesus say that?"

He hasn't made remarks like that in my presence since.

Was out to dinner with some folks this evening after a meeting. When I was asked to come along I asked who was going. I got some odd looks. Later I explained myself. There are some people whom I have nothing personal against, but all the same I don't want to break bread with and engage in conversation with. Much for the same reason bballdad mentioned.

This brings to mind the Big Book Quote Carol posted this morning. People watch us you know. When a bunch of us AA'a are gathered in a restraunt, to the public we are AA. What kind of impression do we leave with people? Do we leave the kind of impression that would move some one to think "You know I might be an alcoholic. Maybe I should check out AA." Or maybe "I think I could recommend AA to my friend who has a serious drinking problem?"

Or do we do like some AA's I know do? Table hop, make a lot of noise and swear loudly, tip poorly, sometimes even skip on the paying the check? What kind of impression does that make? Would you send anyone you loved to something like that?
Jim

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I've made mention of this a fewtimes at a meeting. I told the group, there are some of you I wouldn't have drank with in the past. I also mentioned, there are some of you that, wouldn't have drank with me either.
It is my sincerest hope, one day people of different color and religion etc. will be accepted.

I hope, you will take this person aside and mention to him in a kind way, that, you find his racial remarks terrible.

[firestorm090]

After going to a couple therapists, I learned that they ask two questions the most, 1-how does that make you feel? and 2-why do you feel that way? Frist off, I'd definitely express discomfort with his views, but then I'd turn it on him by asking why do you feel that way? Many who share such strong views filled with hatred have a hard time really knowing why they are filled with hatred and by asking directly, you plant the seed of doubt while also causing them to try to verbalize exactly why they feel that way. When confronted with our own views by others, we often end up conceding that we may be spouting others beliefs, like those of our parents, maybe we really haven't thought it through and formed our own, and we should really look at the issue that is raised. Being confronted with our own views often causes us to examine our own views and consider that others who do not share our views may have a valid point.

[bballdad]

I took a guy to a meeting once.He kept coming back,and one night we arriaved as the meeting was starting.The place was full,and it was a speaker meeting.A black man I know named Angelo got up and gave my white friend his seat.

My friend went home after the meeting and put away his kkk outfit and stuff.
I didn`t know it ,but he was a member of the KKK.That selfless act from Angelo got his attention and made him reconsider.Angelo was a good example of AA that night and Angelo is still sober today.

my friend got drunk after several months and hasn`t returned.

when I first came ot AA I was a pretty hatefull guy who had thought about joining the KKK many times in the past,but did not because it would interfere with my drinking.I was taught as a first and second grader to hate others different than me or I would get my butt beat by the older kids.True story.I have fought blacks and others,burned crosses,and many other things.
I am glad AA gave me a chance and a way to inventory my own life and get the hate out.
I am also glad when we walk into a AA meeting,we are the same.I have several black guys and black girls I love and respect today and I know they love me today.They hug my neck every time we see each other,despite my old acts....
Love is a lot better than hate

behaving oneself in public is a lot better than acting a fool-how I behave myself is a outward reflection of what is going on inside me I believe..

marry who you want,thats your business
who am I to say it ain`t God`s will

[RufusACanal]

Have you prayed about and for this man?

[hendershot]

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Have you prayed about and for this man?

Prayed for yes. For me prayer is mostly about going through the motions at this point. But I have been praying for him.

[least]

I agree with someone taking this person aside and telling him privately that his remarks upset other people. And since AA works by "attracting not promoting" we are representing AA when out in public and don't do AA any favors if we are acting rudely, irresponsibly, or unkindly.

I've also done something like what CarolD did: responded to a racist remark with "my daughter is half black and I don't appreciate your comment". Usually it shuts them up and/or embarrasses them. I've had people apologize to me for racist comments and I accept their apology kindly and forgive them.

[sugErspun]

The instructions on how to deal with this (from an AA perspective) are on pages 66-67.

On a practical note, Miss Communication summed it up very well ~ this is not an AA issue. Perhaps if some of the members of this other class/race joined you at your dinners (St Louis is a very diverse city, at least from the times I have been there), he/she could get to know someone on a level a little deeper than skin color.

I know AA's who are ex-convicts (believe it or not!), from much different socioeconomic backgrounds, generally -> "We would not mix", other than our common bond of alcoholism and recovery from such. If racists are relieved in segregating themselves ~ to segregate this fellow because he is racist (just assuming that it is true ~ more than likely he is scared/resentful and there are reasons behind it), is fighting the issue at the same level.

"You can't come because of your skin color" is not all that different than "You can't come because of your personal beliefs." But like BlakesTiger said ~ to ignore the issue completely isn't going to help him.

I say pray, the answers will come. Right?

~a

[Music]

This sounds just like a situation where someone stinks from body odor and no one wants to say anything, because it's touchy, personal, and what words to I use. Well, this is a great oportunity to do some 12 stepping. Someone said this has nothing to do with AA. I disagree!! AA is about getting sober and staying sober by carrying the message of how the steps worked in my life. This doesn't have to be a "private" conversation, it can be done like an intervention where concerned people take part. If it bothers more than one of you, then more than one of you should say something and show solidarity. I used the "F" bomb at a meeting one time and my sponsor said over the microphone, "The AA program is not only about cleaning up our lives, but cleaning up our mouths." I don't believe I've used it since. So, there you go.