At a recent meeting...

[paulmh]

I'm a GSR and a Regional rep too. At my last regional meeting a few weekends ago the delegates to our national Conference were reporting back on the various committees they had attended. There was lots of talk as the meeting went on and on, lol. One person raised the issue of the "small, but noisy minority" of people who attend conference and spend their time criticising everyone else for not being AA enough. This conversation spilled over to after the end of the meeting. I did a lot of listening, didn't really offer much, but it seemed like the people they were talking about were very similar to the hardline people we have on SR. The ones who talk about "real" alcoholics, about meetings all being pretty crap nowadays, too many cliches and group therapy, not enough talk of "The Solution".

The consensus of the conversation at region was that these people - these "hardliners" - were harmful to AA as a whole. There are a lot of people at my region who have many hundreds of years sobriety between them, and much emotional sobriety too. They were all pretty much rueful and sad that some people within our fellowship take it upon themselves to become the blinkered guardians of our fellowships "spiritual" aspect, and become tremednously bigoted about what constitutes "recovery" for everyone else. One old chap said as we were parting "well, Bill always said that if AA was going to die out it would be AAers that killed it". He was obviously referring to these "hardliners".

My position on this is that I've met some people around AA - all men - who considered themselves to be real authorities on the BB and the programme contained therein, and they really weren't afraid to let other people know about what they saw as their failures to live up to the standards set for us. But what I've seen - almost invariably - has been angry, bitter, judgemental men who really didn't have what I want. At the same time their knowledge of the big book has been second to none, so I've often sought these men out and asked their advice about specific aspects of this programme. But I've essentially felt sorry for them that their recovery has stalled - sometimes for decades - at this "I'm right and you're wrong" stage.

I come on line today and - once again - I see someone criticise the rest of us for our lack of rigidity in meetings, for our poor recovery, for just giving the newcomer cliche and slogan.

When I see someone behave like this, I see a lack of emotional sobriety. I don't see recovery. I do not see something I want. Yet these people are making noise beyond their numbers, both here on SR and in AA as a whole. It seems to me that hardliners bring some good things with them - incredible focus, a commitment to study and work the programme, encyclopeadic knowledge.

So, that comment from my old timer - it'll be AAers who kill AA - what do we think? Will it be "weak", accomodating, emotional sobriety through growth and maturity, loving, nurturing, tolerant, "giving time, time" AA that'll destroy us? Or will it be "strong", self-important, self-righteous, angry, temper tantrum, childish, judgemental, "too smart for meetings" AA?

Bit of a leading question I know..

[CarolD]

Hmm...
Whatever course AA takes in the future
is up to each involved active member today.

Are we teaching "by rote" or by action?
Are we teaching tolerance and love is our code?

The only hard liners I've met are on line.

My meetings are solution based ..spirit directed
and filled with AA miracles.

I expect AA will continue to grow
exactly the way God wants it to.....

Forward we go...side by side

[Pinkcuda]

What you described may be an extreme but is it better than the other extreme? Bill as concerned that AA would fall apart. That's why he wrote the traditions. Basically a set of rules we have to go by in order for AA to survive. Are we following the rules?? My personal opinion is that we aren't #1 Our Common welfare comes first?? I don't see it! I see more people concerned about themselves than anything else and AA is just a place to go and not a way to live. #2 One ultimate authority?? Try bringing that up in a meeting. If you don't believe in God feel free to use that doorstopper. #3 I won't even discuss this but it's the second most violated tradition. We hug everyone just the same. #4 Autonomous?? That means we can tell fishing stories and swap recipies and nobody can stop us. #5 is the most violated and disregarded tradition of them all. We are not carrying the message of AA. The message is this. You must have a spiritual awakening or you will drink again and you get this awakening through the twelve steps. I don't know what message is getting carried but that's not it. If you don't want a spiritual awakening, sit down anyways and do whatever you want. #6 No endorsing, financing or lending the AA name. You mean like the Courts that we have an agreement with to send people to AA even if the 3rd tradition doesn't interest them and they have no desire to get sober and aren't alcoholics to begin with? Remember, we hug addicts just the same in AA
That's the first six, I can get the remaining 6 after I read the paper.
Sure we have traditions but who's enforcing them?

[FightingIrish]

res ipsa loquitur

[FightingIrish]

I too have benefited from people who are all about the Big Book. My sponsor was all about the Big Book. He was also all about living the principles as a flawed human being and respecting others. He shared his own experience strength and hope, rather than others' inexperience, weakness, and hopelessness.

Ultimately, the hardliner stance does very little for me. Plus, as I am overly sensitive to language (and the overuse thereof), I'm afraid the words "reconcile" and "experience" are starting to make my eyes glaze over. It's like these people locked themselves in a room with the same Mark Huston tape until they had it memorized.

M

[Ago]

This is just my opinion

First, I agree with you entirely with how you feel about this, the I find the "Chicken Little" contingent of AA extremely tedious. They glorifying the "good old days" of AA is no different then me glorifying a war story. It's just typical alcoholic behavior, rewriting history they weren't even around to see.

AA is fine, it's stronger then ever

It's just since there are so many more people, we just see more of what we have always seen

More people doing it wrong

More bleeding deacons

but we also see more healthy, sober people then ever before

Recently I went home for a few months, and went back to my home group

It had been my home group for many years, it had always been pretty small, 6-8 when I started going, 20-25 by the time I moved, I had Dr Gil speak there once, he looked around the room, said this looks familiar, then realized he had started the meeting thirty years before.

I went back to the meeting and there were 150 people there, 120 of whom were young.

The men I had sponsored and introduced to the group a decade or two before were some of the meeting "old timers".

I would go early, and sit at the local coffee shop, and hear young men sponsor each other, and I would hear verbatim quotes from my grandsponsor, my spoonsor, and even me, quotes he learned when he got sober in the 1940's, quotes my sponsor had passed onto me, then I had passed on to my sponsees, and so on. These young men were two, three, four, or even five generations down from me on the sponser genealogy, or family tree.

it was like scenes in the latter part of "Fight Club".

They were reading to each other out of the book, teaching each other the traditions, and the steps. They were going back to the source and passing it on.

As long as this takes place, AA is going to be OK. As long as two alcoholics get together and use the book as the basis for their program, and follow the traditions using the twelve and twelve, AA is going to be OK.

Some of these young men in thirty years will be "alarmed for the good of AA" and talk about "the good old days" and be squeaky wheels.

It's ALL necessary. It's ALL part of the process. We need these these old hardliners as much as they need us. We also need the new blood. The people that we need to pass the steps and the traditions on to. The tattoo'd and pierced alcoholics of the present era. We need everyone.

We are the fellowship.

I remember the first speaker I ever saw, He said, My name is Adam, and I am an Alcoholic. I don't have to like you. I look around the room and I realize, I don't like most of you. But I have to love you. I have to answer the phone when you call.

This is my experience.

I go to meetings, and I don't like many people there, I read threads, and I see many people I don't like.

But I love all of you, and all of them, and if any of you or them called, I would answer the phone. I would help if you needed it and asked for it (within "working for others" for the flak I am sure to receive for writing this liberal BS nonsense)

I look in the schedule and I see womens meetings, mens meetings, young peoples meetings, Gay and lesbian meetings, book study meetings, 12 X 12 meetings. Speaker discussion meetings, meetings in Spanish seven nights a week.

I think I want to get a bumper sticker.

AA...not just for bitter old angry low bottom white males any more.

AA is going to be fine. AA is stronger then ever. I travel anywhere and can find a meeting.

My job is to make sure I'm around to see it, and keep making my contribution to ensure it does so.

[miss communicat]

AA will never die. It is evolving.
i pray for the serenity to accept those viewpoints I cannot change (as being someone else's prerogative), the courage to change the ones i can (my own)
and
the wisdom to let the rest go.

[freya]

I truly don't think AA is going to die.

And I'm not sure that there is a "solution" -- in the sense of "a way to put and end to" -- this "problem." I think, maybe, the closest we can come to a solution is just to ignore the would-be-problem-makers when they get too over-the-top and/or when they start to get to us emotionally -- exactly the same way parents are advised to ignore temper tantrums.

In other words, it seems that the closest we can come to a "solution" is for those of us, who do not share the "hardline" view or support the "hardline" stance, to not let that view or those who do espouse it become our problem.

So, OK there are these folks who hold these views and who would like to see everyone else share them, or at the very least, conform to them. Well, the fact is, that is their problem -- because they cannot control anyone else or force anyone else to do what they want. They can yell and scream and try to do things to undermine "official" AA by forming secret societies or whatever other oldboys club games they want to play and that make them feel like the chosen few, but, really what power do they truly have unless everyone else -- i.e. the majority of the Fellowship members -- decides to actually go along with them??? The Traditions do provide a pretty good safeguard against a few angry men taking control of the entire Fellowship in any effective way.

Thus, since it appears highly unlikely that they can truly "stage a coup," their major "power" seems to be in upsetting others and getting others worrying about what they're saying and doing......and the truth is that is a power they can have only insofar as others choose to give it to them.

It seems to me, that the best -- easiest, most effective and least divisive -- strategy is simply not to give them that power.

They have their right to their opinions and their voice and their seats just like anyone else, but they don't have the power to upset anyone or change anyone, unless others give them that power, and they don't have the power to fundamentally change the Fellowship or the direction its overall membership decides to take, unless other members refuse to do their parts and use their own voices.

I think there's room for everyone -- even for the people who would like to get rid of anyone who doesn't do it "their way."

And what, really, is the difference between a "hardliners" and an Al Anon person who is so stuck on focusing on and obsessing about and trying to change and to fix someone other than her/himself: There is none. That kind of judgemental, self-righteous, others-obsessed attitude and behavior is, at root, nothing but an "excuse" not to be looking at and working on one's own stuff. Yeah, that's sad and that's unfortunate, but people have the right to make that choice and to live like that if they want to

And truth is that as long as they continue to come around, no matter how much b*tching, and bemoaning, and judging and condeming and cantankerous spouting off at the mouth they're doing, they still have a lot better chance of someday actually moving toward emotional and spiritual sobriety than they have off god-only-knows-where doing-god-only-knows-what.

So, it's like another good opportunity to practice detachment and trust in HP: "Thank you for sharing. My experience on the other hand is ______________. Gotta go now, hope you have a great day!" Said with love and sincereity and no emotional upset...and then just let it -- and them -- go!

freya

[freya]

Originally Posted by Ago

I think I want to get a bumper sticker.

AA...not just for bitter old angry low bottom white males any more.

That'd be a money-maker for sure!

freya

[Music]

I was attending a meeting Wednesday night with my sponsor and he put it just exactly the way I believe. I'll use "I" because although I'm quoting him, I'll put it my own words. I believe in my program enough that I'm not willing to change what has worked for me for 32 years and counting. I'm stubborn about my program and have very fixed and non-varying ways of thinking and working the steps. I'm not willing to bend, not one inch. If that makes me a hardliner, Big Book thumper, bleeding deacon, or whatever else you can think of, so be it!! I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone else should work their program the way I work mine but I'll speak my mind and state my case wherever possible. Father Joe Martin put it best. He said, "some people are so open-minded, everything just blows right on through, 'cause there's nothing in there to stop it." I also remember a song entitled, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

This thread seems to me to be indicative of the way our society is moving these days. Anyone who isn't "progressive" and is seen as not being updated and getting with what some think is needed in today's society is thought to be old, outdated, and obsolete; even in some instances, radical and bordering on terroistic tendencies. It's the name-calling game and does nothing but separate one person from the other, cause class warfare and hatetred toward people who don't think and talk the "right" way. I'm politically conservative, believing in this great country and in the founding fathers and the way they set down the paperwork this country was built on. I"m also an AA conservative and I believe in the founding fathers and the way they set fourth the steps and traditions which have made AA great for over 75 years. People have a tendency to "poo poo" our country's history and some AAers tend to "poo poo" our AA history and that in itself is the only thing that will not only kill our country but will kill AA as I know it. When I hear people saying things like we should open up our meetings to everyone no matter what their addiction, or they start talking about this person or that person is this or that, I'll speak up and bring up the point that as long as they're talking about someone else, it takes the focus off what they should be talking and thinking about and that's themselves. We can gain intelligence and become smart by reading books and talking to others but the only way to gain wisdom and experience is by living a long time and do something other than stand around and talk about others. Listen to those hardliners and oldtimers. If you don't like what they're saying, maybe it's because they're right and you just don't like it.

[Ago]

And what, really, is the difference between a "hardliners" and an Al Anon person who is so stuck on focusing on and obsessing about and trying to change and to fix someone other than her/himself: There is none. That kind of judgemental, self-righteous, others-obsessed attitude and behavior is, at root, nothing but an "excuse" not to be looking at and working on one's own stuff. Yeah, that's sad and that's unfortunate, but people have the right to make that choice and to live like that if they want to

Ding ding ding ding

we have a winner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I was told in my first year, If I was really working my own program I would be so busy I wouldn't have time to work anyone else's.

That's as true today as it's ever been

Yet off I go, tilting at Windmills pretty frequently, The difference is I KNOW it's a character defect and reel myself back in eventually

I believe in my program enough that I'm not willing to change what has worked for me for 32 years and counting. I'm stubborn about my program and have very fixed and non-varying ways of thinking and working the steps. I'm not willing to bend, not one inch. If that makes me a hardliner, Big Book thumper, bleeding deacon, or whatever else you can think of, so be it!! I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone else should work their program the way I work mine but I'll speak my mind and state my case wherever possible.

The flip side is I agree with this 100%

The thing is, I am a Hardliner and BB thumper, I am hard-nosed when it comes to the Traditions, I just don't believe the end of the world is nigh, I believe it's our responsibility to adhere to the Traditions, but it's no good to "view with alarm for the good of AA" which Bill wrote about doing 60 years ago, he also wrote that when people do that, they are always surprised when everyone laughs at that them.

It's the human condition.

[Pinkcuda]

Truth be told, there's a difference between someone that believes and carries the true message that AA was intended to be, and a jerk or an a$$hole. Are we confusing "hard line" with "hard ass"?
We don't have any tact or diplomacy training and we don't come from a soft delicate environment. Therefore the words come out as a little harsh sometimes. Therefore it's a matter of the message and not so much the messenger. Fortunately, or unfortunately for us this hard ass approach isn't the norm. In fact, it's a small representation of what's actually going on behind the doors of AA. This is just a guesstimate as to what I see. 5% hard nose and 65% are the extreme opposite and the remainder are somewhat in the middle.
Now, I've asked this before. Where does my responsibility end when it comes to carrying on tradition #5? Am I carrying on this tradition by remaining silent when we see misinformation and opinions as opposed to "Book Based Fact" being tossed around the rooms? Am I carrying on this tradition by not going to a meeting that more resembles an Ice Cream Social with no regard for a newcomer that might happen to wander in?
Don't we all share the same "Sense of Duty' that Dr. Bob had?
Again, it doesn't grant me a license to be a jerk but "freedom from alcohol through the teaching and practice of the 12 steps" is the only reason we go to AA in the first place.
Supposedly

[FightingIrish]

"Thank you for sharing. My experience on the other hand is ______________. Gotta go now, hope you have a great day!"

[FightingIrish]

As I have suspected, it's my observation that this debate comes down to immutable frameworks for viewing the world. So whether it's A.A., or politics, or culture, I suspect that this sort of rift will never be bridged. These are the types of orientations that argument and debate seem to have little impact on, in my experience. Best of luck.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Pinkcuda

We don't have any tact or diplomacy training and we don't come from a soft delicate environment. Therefore the words come out as a little harsh sometimes. Therefore it's a matter of the message and not so much the messenger. Fortunately, or unfortunately for us this hard ass approach isn't the norm.

Harshness is in the ear of the beholder! True, most of us don't come to AA full of tact and diplomacy but over the years of dealing with other drunks and sponsoring people we learn to use tact and diplomacy, otherwise we end up alone with no one to carry the message to. Also, whether a person labels a message as being "hard ass" or tactful and diplomatic is a matter for the listener to decide. The job of the messenger is to share experience, strength and hope and he generally does in the best way he knows how. This brings about the question as to what the difference is between being honest and truthful, or hard ass. Most of us didn't come here with the ability to accept honest observations easily either. So this brings about another question. Do we "soft-sell" and "sugarcoat" what we say to the newcomer or anyone else for that matter so as not to offend their sensitivities, sacrificing being truthful and honest, or do we state our experience directly and honestly? My past experience is that if I love someone enough to take the time to tell him what I see and hear, I do it in the same way it was done with me by my past sponsors and that is honest and direct. In the same way that AA can't be all things to all people, nor can I be counselor, psychiatrist, psycoalanyst or chaplain. I'm just a drunk like anyone else in AA and I talk the language of a drunk who happens to be sober. People who drank the way I did, with the people I drank with and talking the language I talked, then come to AA and are offended by someone being honest enough to tell them what they may need to hear, is just going to have to stop playing the victom and start listening and take time to think about about the idea that what they're hearing, just might save their life.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by paulmh

... One person raised the issue of the "small, but noisy minority" of people who attend conference and spend their time criticising everyone else for not being AA enough...

I did a lot of listening, didn't really offer much, but it seemed like the people they were talking about were very similar to the hardline people we have on SR. The ones who talk about "real" alcoholics, about meetings all being pretty crap nowadays, too many cliches and group therapy, not enough talk of "The Solution".

The consensus of the conversation at region was that these people - these "hardliners" - were harmful to AA as a whole.

...They were all pretty much rueful and sad that some people within our fellowship take it upon themselves to become the blinkered guardians of our fellowships "spiritual" aspect, and become tremednously bigoted about what constitutes "recovery" for everyone else.

...One old chap said as we were parting "well, Bill always said that if AA was going to die out it would be AAers that killed it". He was obviously referring to these "hardliners".

My position on this is that I've met some people around AA - all men - who considered themselves to be real authorities on the BB and the programme contained therein, and they really weren't afraid to let other people know about what they saw as their failures to live up to the standards set for us. But what I've seen - almost invariably - has been angry, bitter, judgemental men who really didn't have what I want.

...But I've essentially felt sorry for them that their recovery has stalled - sometimes for decades - at this "I'm right and you're wrong" stage.

When I see someone behave like this, I see a lack of emotional sobriety. I don't see recovery. I do not see something I want. Yet these people are making noise beyond their numbers, both here on SR and in AA as a whole.

...So, that comment from my old timer - it'll be AAers who kill AA - what do we think? Will it be "weak", accomodating, emotional sobriety through growth and maturity, loving, nurturing, tolerant, "giving time, time" AA that'll destroy us? Or will it be "strong", self-important, self-righteous, angry, temper tantrum, childish, judgemental, "too smart for meetings" AA?

Bit of a leading question I know..

Gee, I don't know. I was at a meeting earlier in the week and there was a guy in there who I could train a parrot to say exactly what he says. I thought I was going to pull my hair off of my skull waiting for him to wrap up his talk. Just last night, a newcomer called me asking where something was in the book. Turned out it was on page 64 and we talked about that meeting. I asked him what he thought about this guys share. He had an opinion about it as did I. He told me this guy shared for 15 minutes. 15 minutes! I told him, "That's your meeting, what are you gonna do about it?" He said he brought it up at the last group conscience/business meeting on Wednesday and they told him it was up to the chairperson to fix that. He suggested using a timer and limiting shares to 5 minutes. The group agreed.

This guy is not a GSR of a group and not a regional rep either; yet he has a solution. What he does have is about 40 days of sobriety and is in amends.

That's all I care about with regards to the A.A. Program and fellowship.

Have a good day.

Originally Posted by Ago

...I look in the schedule and I see womens meetings, mens meetings, young peoples meetings, Gay and lesbian meetings, book study meetings, 12 X 12 meetings. Speaker discussion meetings, meetings in Spanish seven nights a week.

I think I want to get a bumper sticker.

AA...not just for bitter old angry low bottom white males any more.

So would it be in bad taste to whip out a meeting called Bitter Old Angry Low Bottom White Males Meeting? What if there really was a bitter old angry low-bottom white male that needed to get sober? Should we turn him away? Did bitter old angry low-bottom white males do something wrong to you personally?

I don't believe in specialty meetings, like men's stag meetings, but whatever. Women may feel vulnerable or like prey in meetings? I go to a meeting where the guy and gal who started it got sober in New Mexico and have grown the group from about 4 people to about 30. They have a strong group of women and men in that group.

I observe these things in meetings, but don't pay much attention to them. Meetings are like Baskin Robins from what I can tell; 31 flavors and more to spare.

[navysteve]

The consensus of the conversation at region was that these people - these "hardliners" - were harmful to AA as a whole.

hey Paul, just to play Devil's advocate here. How many people you describe as hardliners were there? My experiences is that many(not all ,but many) so called hardliners do not participate in AA's structure as far as GSR etc...

One of the things I dislike about many people who identify as hardliners is the tendency to engage in group think. For those who may not know, group think is where independent thinking is lost in the pursuit of group cohesiveness, as are the advantages of reasonable balance in choice and thought that might normally be obtained by making decisions as a group.

But what bothers me is when folks lump them into a group and say AA is better off without them. I disagree with the choices and rhetoric many hardliner AA's make but just as much as I disagree with many of the stands they make, making a generalization that AA is better off without a group of people or to blame a group for AA's woes is just selfish to me.

That is exactly what they say about folks who do not see things the way they do. DO we match closed mindedness with closed mindedness?

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

As I have suspected, it's my observation that this debate comes down to immutable frameworks for viewing the world. So whether it's A.A., or politics, or culture, I suspect that this sort of rift will never be bridged...

Debate? Where's the debate?

There's no debates in Alcoholism-12-step support sub-forums.

"We are average Americans. All sections of this country and many of its occupations are represented, as well as many political, economic, social, and religious backgrounds. We are people who normally would not mix. But there exists a fellowship, a friendliness and an understanding which is indescribably wonderful... But that in itself would never have held us together as we are now joined."

So you say some "hard liners" sit around and talk about the "good old days?" Gee, I wonder why? Nothing's changed, right? Nothing in a few closed meetings I go to anyway! We have that same solution!

[FightingIrish]

Speaking purely for myself...as a believer in the Big Book and the Traditions...the Big Book and Traditions are not what this thread is about.

Those who reply, "yes, but the solution in the Big Book and the Traditions!!!" are not IMHO providing a response to this thread.

I don't think anyone here is saying "to hell with the Big Book and the Traditions", are they?

[Pinkcuda]

I don't think anyone here is saying "to hell with the Big Book and the Traditions", are they?

That only happens in meetings. If you take a stand against it you become one of those dreaded "Hardliners"!

[carl11]

Well first let me say that from my perspective AA is as strong or stronger than ever.

BUT, and I don’t want to nit pick but there has been I think something added and something lost, that being the plethora of young folks. Whats been lost? Civil behavior, manners etc.

I am very pleased that yong’uns can find and utilize the rooms and they feel welcome. However I stopped going to 2 weekly meetings I had attended for a year because the cross talk, the getting up leaving the room, coming in late, leaving early, cell phones going off, texting, if one was chosen to speak they would call on all their friends there after basically taking over the meeting, etc. drove me to distraction, I was there for a solution and it came to the point where I didn’t feel welcome after many of them showed up.

Myself and a chairperson went to the house they were using as the SLE, and spoke to the head of household and it stopped for about 2 weeks…..I took a powder.

Just my rant…perhaps a formal rules comm. could take this up at their next convention.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

Speaking purely for myself...

I don't think anyone here is saying "to hell with the Big Book and the Traditions", are they?

Speaking purely for yourself, no.

The OP seems to be saying to hell with the "hardliners",

... which "speaking purely for myself", seems like saying "to hell with the Big Book and the Traditions" because them derned there hardliners, dontchaknow, are the only ones still making use of them there big books and traditions... speaking purely for myself...

Add: saying the hardliners, like the ones on SR are "harmful to A.A. as a whole (At a recent meeting...)" and agreeing with it...just isn't sitting well with me.

Whom of you are agreeing with this? There's a topic right there. Go no further.

[tommyk]

My sponsees and I know that we learn from everyone in AA.

From some we learn HOW we want to be, from some we learn HOW we don't want to be.

AA's doing just fine in my area. Lots of things about life & AA I don't like. That's reality.

[FightingIrish]

I totally get this. It bothers me too, but I wonder what the solution is, or even if there is one or should be one?

On the other hand, there's a meeting I went to recently where I observed that everyone was extremely well behaved (almost creepily so) and completely on message. It weirded me out a little. It was so choreographed it was almost kabuki theater. I wondered what it would take to get a meeting to be like that and whether it is even a desirable thing.

I saw something of what it would take when a handful of hardliners took over my first home group. It started innocently enough, group conscience meetings about all sort of tiny regulatory matters, but then the G.C.'s started to be finagled so that certain people wouldn't be there to oppose. Then came the membership requirements, and the closing of the kitchen during the meeting, then the no getting up to go to the bathroom, and the no holding hands, then the No Serenity Prayer But Yes The Lord's Prayer, then the newcomers don't speak for 90 days, then...

The thing is, people let this happen, so I blame the people who objected but didn't act as much as the conniving interlopers.

Michael

Originally Posted by carl11

Well first let me say that from my perspective AA is as strong or stronger than ever.

BUT, and I don’t want to nit pick but there has been I think something added and something lost, that being the plethora of young folks. Whats been lost? Civil behavior, manners etc.

I am very pleased that yong’uns can find and utilize the rooms and they feel welcome. However I stopped going to 2 weekly meetings I had attended for a year because the cross talk, the getting up leaving the room, coming in late, leaving early, cell phones going off, texting, if one was chosen to speak they would call on all their friends there after basically taking over the meeting, etc. drove me to distraction, I was there for a solution and it came to the point where I didn’t feel welcome after many of them showed up.

Myself and a chairperson went to the house they were using as the SLE, and spoke to the head of household and it stopped for about 2 weeks…..I took a powder.

Just my rant…perhaps a formal rules comm. could take this up at their next convention.

[carl11]

I hear you...I was ranting....