The Invisible Line

[Mark75]

between hard drinker and alcoholic.

Oh noooo... here we go again. Not really. Not this original post anyway.

I struggle with this because I liked drinking, I thought I could drink hard and get away with it and I did for years. Something happened, I didn't get away with it any more. I still have a car, family and job, but if I keep digging, I won't.

So there is this 1st step thing and the leveling of pride.... and the 12 steps. I am working on my fourth, behind schedule? I don't know, I needed to regain some sanity first. I didn't think I had any resentments, turns out I have a lot.

My invisible line was that I decided I could drink whenever I wanted to... When I reloaded ammunition, whitewater canoe trips with my kids, driving, on the way home from work, on really bad mornings, on the way to work, whatever... I just made sure I didn't get smashed.

My invisible line was not that I couldn't stop... I could almost always stop before blackout, the dizzies or if I was out of the house, in social situation, before I made an idiot out of myself.

So this hard drinker/real alcoholic thing is important to me... I need to work the steps, level my pride and work that 1st step until it goes from my head to my heart.

I needed to share that. Experience Strength and Hope will be appreciated.

Mark

[Tommyh]

thank you Mark
As I look back at my life,I believe I crossed that line in my teens,between 16 and 18 probably.
I went from wanting to control it,and being able to control it,to not wanting to control it,and not being able to control my drinking once started.
From there it really took a nosedive...

[tommyk]

For me, when the time came to stop drinking... it was time.

I think I squeezed every ounce of enjoyment out of alcohol.

Just like at some point in my life I no longer went to the playground.

It was just time. I had been there and done that... and I survived.

Time to move on with life. No regrets after 15 years sober.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I progressed from a hard drinker to an alcoholic.


When, the drinking becomes the main focus over everything else.

I can no longer drink without consequences

[Sheryl85]

There is a part of the Big Book that, I’m sorry to say, is little read. It’s the chapter entitled “To Wives.” That particular chapter talks about the different types of drinkers. I gained some insight and answer a bunch of nagging questions by reading what it contains. For anyone who wants to see what I'm talking about, look for the paragraph that starts, “The problem with which you struggle usually falls within one of four categories.”

Another good place to read is in the Third Edition, the opening to the second set of stories entitled “They Stopped In Time.” That helped me out a lot.

I know several people that talk about how they never drank normally or they drank like an alcoholic from day one. Not me. There was a time where my drinking was successful and seemed almost normal. But that passed and once it did, that was that. I had crossed the line. However, the real kicker came when I discovered that I was the man (person in my case) they talk about on page 24. (I first saw that on a T-shirt and had to look it up.)

[Charmie]

hello cubile,im not sure i ever had a line to cross,when i started drinking it was always for effect and my whole life was unmanagable from an early age.with me i have found as i look into my past behaviours and such that booze was just a symptom of my illness.but,i do remember when i started hiding bottles etc,but that was just progression.there were times when it was sort of managed but that was only circumstances,,ie money etc,,i drank whenever i could from the age of 16,and as i got older and towards the end there were no boundries.bit confusing! hope you understand what i just said! lol,,,:wtf2

[Astro]

Originally Posted by Cubile75

I liked drinking, I thought I could drink hard and get away with it and I did for years. Something happened, I didn't get away with it any more. I still have a car, family and job, but if I keep digging, I won't.

I needed to hear this today Mark, thanks for sharing some of your story.

I looooooooved drinking. Nothing like putting away a 12-pack of microbrews on a hot summer day in Phoenix, or sipping glasses of single malt scotch in the winter. Cooking was a good excuse to drink, making pizza meant guzzling jugs of cheap wine. Drinking went hand-in-hand with just about everything, and for the most part it was a lot of fun.

For years there were no repurcussions. I never had a DUI, went to jail, was institutionalized, etc. Nothing like that, I functioned very well, from all appearances I looked like a good father and loving husband.

The progression was frightening. Looking back on it now it's horrific to think of how fast it happened. Instead of the fine microbrews it was the largest quantities of the cheapest crap I could find. Schlitz was fine with me. Cheap vodka replaced the good scotch. And there was never enough.

One day I woke up and found out my spouse was having an affair with a co-worker. By the end of that day I was at my first AA meeting, my marriage was as good as done, I was being kicked out of my home, I wouldn't see my kids 24/7, it was time to say goodbye to even the dogs. A week after that I was institutionalized, so I can finally say that did end up happening to me, but I was sober at the time.

Am I a hard drinker or an alcoholic? The answer to that is obvious or I wouldn't have 4 years of sobriety and be posting on a recovery forum. But it really doesn't matter. My problem is me, the alcohol is just a symptom.

[freya]

I was at a meeting last night at which someone said: "You know, I really don't think that non-alcoholics sit around wondering where that line is between being a non-alcoholic and an alcoholic. So, if you're sitting around wondering about this, there's a really good chance that that right there is proof you've already crossed the line."

Well, I'm not an alcoholic, and I can tell you in all honesty, that, until they started talking about this last night, I'd never even thought about that line. Everyone else in the room, on the other hand, identifies as an alcoholic and from the amount of laughter that that guy's sharing elicited, I'm guessing they'd all thought about it quite a bit -- after they'd crossed it, of course.

freya

[Charmie]

thanks freya,,,ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.made this alki giggle.

[FightingIrish]

I am racking my brain trying to figure when that line was crossed, and I cannot. Maybe that's why it's so aptly referred to as an "invisible" line.

It's sort of like when does a dusting of snow become a snow bank?

The unmanageability was there right away...when I was 15, I was already a blackout drinker, would become violent when drunk, and drink and drove often. (I grew up in the town where M.A.D.D began, and I was never caught.)

For the next 15 years I was a binge drinker, dabbled in drugs, and "controlled" it with the exception of a few embarrassing moments each year, and for the next five I was a daily blackout drinker.

M

[Tommyh]

my sponsor says he went to his first meeting a drunk,and came home a alcoholic with a white in his pocket and has not drank since

[shaun00]

i remember a Christmas period years ago.

dont remember my age.......late teens i guess.....i had my first apartment so 18 maybe.

i bought a few slabs of Guinness for Christmas even though i only had a couple of days off work.

i polished of the Guinness in a couple of days and on the third days i had to go to work.

For a week i remember how difficult it was not to go and get more...i obsessed about it all week......till payday and went to the bar.

this was the first time i noticed my drinking changing........the mental obsession setting down its roots.

yeah sure i got drunk all the time but this was different...till then it hadn't occupied my mind........i just didn't think about it...

My drinking changed from "pay day" drinking too "everyday" drinking and along with it went my first marriage

before long the morning drink became my medicine for nervous jitters.

fast forward a good few years and I'm sat in doorways begging for money for booze.

yes my drinking changed.......it was that mental obsession i noticed right back then.....

by the time i noticed it it was probably way to late to do anything about it and in my late teens there was NO way i was gonna stop.

i dint regret the past..........but sometimes i regret the pain i caused others.

Shaun

[optra]

For me the manageability was inside. Even before I took my first drink. I always felt less than...when I took my first drink I thought I had found the solution to all my problems. I was good enough, funny enough, strong enough. It took me thirty years before I realized that alcohol was not the answer, no matter how much I drank it just wasn't working. I never lost a job, got into brawls, lost my home. But I got to the point that life just wasn't worth living.
I thank God daily that I found the 12 steps of AA and a sponsor who didn't believe in watered down AA.
This whole basing unmanageability on outside issues bugs me. I think it helps some misunderstand and think that if only my external surroundings were good I'd be OK, and that the problem is alcohol.
Just ask my wife and she will tell you that at 3 months sober going to meetings three times a week but not working the steps I was worse than I'd ever been while drinking.
So for me the line was always there, now thanks to the PROGRAM of AA I am more free and happy even when everyday problems occur.
Thanks
Steve

[FightingIrish]

For me internal unmanageability goes hand in hand with external. At least, I recognize that now. I maintain that alcohol cured a problem I didn't know I had until I stopped drinking alcohol. But until I did that, I thought all my problems were caused by drinking too much.

I try not to judge when someone else has a different experience than me and talks about it. I'm not always successful, but I try. Their experience does not and cannot negate mine.

[Mark75]

Thank you all

So much was said, I cannot quote it all... So much resonates... going from the fine microbrews to (in my case) coors light (and it didn't have to be cold!!) and from nice wine to cheap vodka... to the drinking becoming the focus of everything (this is a hard one as I go through early sobriety... I still have to watch that "what's the point then" mentality, though it's better lately...)... to the obsession... if there was a bottle of anything in the house, well I had to have some, any day, anytime... to the never feeling like I was good enough or clever enough until that drink was in my hand.... And other things that were said....

Experience, Strength and Hope. I do find that here.

I also find it at AA... we talked about surrender tonight. I didn't share, but I got some hope... I think I am at a place that I can call a bottom. Even though the bottom was raised for me by intervention (a divine inspired workplace kind)... I see myself in a room... there are no windows and a dirt floor.... there is a shovel and a flight of stairs.

Anyway, thanx.

Mark

[Mark75]

Hey FightingIrish...

I maintain that alcohol cured a problem I didn't know I had until I stopped drinking alcohol. But until I did that, I thought all my problems were caused by drinking too much.

Yea, that too... it's almost scary how much I get that.

Mark

[least]

It took me a while to realize I'd crossed that line. When I had to have three glasses of wine to get the feeling I used to get from one. When I started lying about it and hiding it. When I had to have a bit of wine in the morning to quell the shakes... and having to give up my beloved coffee cause it made me unbearably anxious.

My drinking 'career' was short but stellar. Within a few months I was drinking all day, every day, and still didn't realize I had a serious problem. When I finally realized how bad off I was it was one early morning when my withdrawal was so bad I swallowed my pride and asked my mother to take me to the ER. My mother cried her eyes out watching me shake and shiver. She couldn't understand why I just couldn't stop drinking.

And then, after having six months sober, I crossed that line again and drank for one stinking day. Obviously I wanted to drink more than I wanted to be sober. Now I want to be sober more than I want to drink. I NEVER want to put myself back into that hell hole, as I'm not sure I'd make it out alive.

[gravity]

My drinking history is what it is.

From the beginning, it was always drink until I pass out or run out of alcohol. Blackouts were expected and a normal part of my drinking. I could always find a way to rationalize my behaviour.

But the drinking got progressively worse, scary for the last few years. Three day out of control benders, extremely dangerous situations. And I believe that it had to happen this way for me to finally wake up. I don't regret my drinking history anymore (but I do regret the pain I caused others along the way). There really was no other option - I had to drink myself to that point, to be so beaten down & humbled that I could finally accept my alcoholism and get the help I need.

I have been reading the hard drinker/alcoholic posts with some interest. I think that its a very personal experience (the label is unimportant). If you get to the point where you are finished drinking and are still relatively sane be very grateful. We are the fortunate ones.

Just my perspective - no invisible line. It was a path I had to follow to get to where I am today.

[Music]

If I compare how I drank with people I listen to talk about how they drank, in many ways I fall into the category of "hard drinker." However, there are things that happened to me that I know about which put me in the category of the real alcoholic. One main characteristic is that from the minute I started to drink, once I took that first drink, I could always be guaranteed of taking the second, third, fourth, etc. Regardless of the results of my drinking which differ, that one thing is outstanding in my memory....such as it is. So, instead of picking the fly poop out of the pepper and waisting a lot of time analyzing, I jusmped over the incidentals and got down to the brass tacks. I'm an alcoholic who once takes that first drink, can't/won't stop.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

ALL IN ALL, DOES IT REALLY MATTER IF, A PERSON HAS A DESIRE TO BETTER HIS LIFE AND IS WILLING TO DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES??

Sorry about the caps !!

[Mark75]

I Don't think so... I guess I am trying to say... If a person is willing to let go absolutely... follow the 12 step program... do what it takes... then I can assume that they have hit their bottom.

[barb dwyer]

I was born across the line.

I say often
(and somehow haven't gotten famous for it yet - LOL)
(so I'll keep right ON saying it)
Alcoholism is a personality long before it's a substance.

As a bartender, I saw customers 'clean up' for a while, stopping their drinking for a period of time then starting back.
I think, in their minds it 'proved' something.
Well, it 'proved' something to me, as well.
Because they always came back.

I've known MANY alcoholics who can stop for a designated period time when the know full well they will begin again.

I think 'alcoholism' is far more than putting down a drink before getting in trouble or other consequences.

Just as 'sobriety' is not just 'not drinking'.

[sfields141]

The first time I drank I got drunk and passed out ,the last time I drank I got drunk Ditto.Easy for I was born waiting for alcohol. A.A was agod send,that i seized upon.

[CarolD]

I never have figured out which drink or what day slid me into alcoholism.
I was dancing right along...minding my own business and
Zap!
I started to be depressed....I would cry when drunk...became arguementive.
I attempted suicide 3 times....checked myself in mental hospitals
I went into counseling...took meds and still drank.
After being diagnosed with situational depression
I decided to quit and I joined AA.

I was shocked that I could not simply quit.

In and out of AA...mostly not drinking....feeling hope
I kept on ....4 years later I did finally stop....

I don't remember any AA member or anyone else
ask me what type of drinker I was or alcoholic I am.

Sooo...I went the mental route with my alcoholism.
I do consider my sobriety turned into recovery
when I began my formal Step work.


Thanks for letting me share

[jimhere]

Mark,
If I may be direct, I think you waste a lot of time and energy trying to figure this it. It is not an intellectual exercise.

Does it matter when and if you crossed some line? Does it matter if mom & dad were alcoholic? Does it matter why? I think alcoholics always want to know why because they think if they can figure out why then they can do something about it.
Jim