Good Orderly Direction

[firestorm090]

I've read this phrase here a couple times and am confused about what it means. I wanted to ask my sponsor today, but he's at work and unavailable, so I thought I'd ask here.

I've spoken with three people the last two days about developing a plan of action to follow and sticking to it. Is this what is meant by the phrase, having and sticking to a plan?

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I just look at it as another term for following a good spiritual path

[CarolD]

Hmm....
I never use the the phrase, "Good Orderly Direction"
nor do I hear it in my AA meetings.

My best plan of action for recovery has been
using God and the 12 Steps of AA.

[bballdad]

good orderly direction = the 12 steps or in some other cases it = sponsorship

it boils down to just who you ask

[yeahgr8]

Something i heard in rehab, was used for athiests along with the option of using gravity as your higher power, e.g. do you think gravity is a power greater than you...sounds silly but got results for a couple in there:-)

[FightingIrish]

It seems to me to be a term that is meant to help atheist newcomers get past the use of the word "God" in A.A.

[Astro]

Good
Orderly
Direction

I've seen it used that way as an acronym, or "alconym".

To me it means doing the next indicated right thing, keeping my side of the street clean, cleaning house and working with others, and as Cap'n suggested, following a good spiritual path.

[tommyk]

Some people have an aversion to 'God' as a higher power.

But even a devout athiest agrees we all can use Good Orderly Direction.

So instead of believing in God they can believe in G.O.D. (Good Orderly Direction).

What can be a higher power? Anything that leads us in a Good Orderly Direction, right?

I use the phrase a lot with newcomers to the program who are basically looking for a reason why they can't do the steps. They say, "I can't get a handle on all of this God talk, I'm out of here...", and I suggest to them that they think of the Good Orderly Direction phrase as 'God'. It helped me a lot when I came into the program.

[DaveBB164]

to me it is one of those therapy type acronym/slogans I find annoying because they contradict what I have learned through the Big Book, it contradicts powerlessness and the below passage debunks good orderly direction,


Page 44-45
If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly.

but that is just my view


Quoted...BB...1st. Edition

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I get kind of peeved at the oh, we can't disturb someone by mentioning God.

I don't get bothered by people not believing in God. I do however get annoyed at someone thinking we shouldn't use it at our meeting.

Hmm I've read the steps a few times now. I didn't admit to a higher power on any step it was to the God of my understanding.

I also wouldn't go to an athiest meeting and start saying God, H.P. etc.

Our meetings we do say, those who care to join us for the serenity prayer and the Lord's prayer please do so.

[tommyk]

I just like to include everyone in their quest for sobriety.

I'm not thinking of myself and my beliefs, I'm thinking of theirs.

If Good Orderly Direction helps even one person become successful in the program I like it.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I agree with that.

No one here, where I live, forces anyone to say a prayer or believe in God. That's the beauty of it, no one is going to force you to believe in God to attend AA.

[bballdad]

good orderly direction is excally what the program gives me

[Pinkcuda]

That's the beauty of it, no one is going to force you to believe in God to attend AA.

Herein lies the problem. Alcoholics Anonymous was founded on the fact that a belief in God would relieve us of our Alcoholism through the 12 steps.
Pertinant idea #3 "That God could and would if he were sought.
This has been replaced with the concept that we can use anything we want for our Higher Power. Therefore people have decided to use a Group of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction.
The book clearly mentions God as we understand him. This in no way was this intended to indicate that the God of your choice could be used.
The quote specifically mentions "Attend" AA! We should point out the difference between AA "Attenders" and AA "Members"
Tradition 3 says that any 2-3 alcoholics gathered for "Sobriety" may call themselves an AA Meeting.
AA defines sobriety as "The freedom from alcohol through the teaching and practice of the 12 steps".
These 12 steps specifically mention "God" several times.
In my opinion only, if someone has no desire to find God and rely upon God for their recovery from alcoholism, they should give up their seat in AA

[FightingIrish]

"Should"??

[keithj]

Just to clarify, can God be Bhudda? Allah? Spirit of the Universe? Great Reality Deep Within? Or does it need to be the Christian god in which the founding members believed?

[Pinkcuda]

That's where the "As you understand God" clause comes in. Yes God can be Allah, Buddah, Jesus, God, RA, etc...
You can not however use a "Rock" or a "Door Stop" for your HP.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by keithj

Just to clarify, can God be Bhudda? Allah? Spirit of the Universe? Great Reality Deep Within? Or does it need to be the Christian god in which the founding members believed?

The Big Book spells it out pretty well, pgs. 93-94, Working With Others.......

Your prospect may belong to a religious denomination. His religious education and training may be far superior to yours. In that case he is going to wonder how you can add anything to what he already knows. But he well be curious to learn why his own convictions have not worked and why yours seem to work so well. He may be an example of the truth that faith alone is insufficient. To be vital, faith must be accompanied by self sacrifice and unselfish, constructive action. Let him see that you are not there to instruct him in religion. Admit that he probably knows more about it than you do, but call to his attention the fact that however deep his faith and knowledge, he could not have applied it or he would not drink, Perhaps your story will help him see where he has failed to practice the very precepts he knows so well. We represent no particular faith or denomination. We are dealing only with general principles common to most denominations.

Big Book quote from the First Edition of Alcoholics Anonymous

[doorknob]

I don't see how God could be Buddha, considering his followers do not see him as a god. Ananda or Zencat could probably explain better.

[Pinkcuda]

Probably the same way that Christians would consider Jesus a Higher Power. Not a "God" technically but still an HP of sorts.

[bballdad]

in reality I believe the force within us that comes together is a form of the HP
I can also see where a newcomer may want to use the group to get started

[FightingIrish]

"can not"??

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by Pinkcuda

Probably the same way that Christians would consider Jesus a Higher Power. Not a "God" technically but still an HP of sorts.

As a one time Lutheran/ Catholic, I believe in the Holy Trinity of God the father, son and Holy Spirit.

Foremost, Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

I didn't come into AA mad at God or, come into AA as a non believer.

That being said, a good many people do come into AA soured on churches etc. Work on sobriety first and help the new commer develop their spirituality later.

I do take the preamble serious as to not make the meetings about any type of religion though.

[firestorm090]

Thank you all for helping me understand this phrase a little better. I have never successfully led a spiritual life, and still am not quite sure how to do that, but am trying to be openminded and willing to try anything that helps me live a better life without alcohol. I admittedly have much to learn. I will continue to ask these probing questions when necessary in order to gain some insight into how all of this works.

Thank you again for all of your thoughtful and helpful replies.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

If for nothing else, AA has me trying to live by the golden rule. For the most part, the golden rule is practiced by every society.

I wasn't living a life of good orderly direction in my self centeredness.