AA-Does it work?

[keithj]

“Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.” The beginning of Chapter 5, How It Works in AA’s Big Book is one of the most read passages at meetings. Do we ever really question the truth of this statement? Do we look at its applicability?

I think the truth is self-evident. The statement doesn’t make any distinction between motivations for coming into the rooms, types of drinkers, social status, how far of a bottom, religious preference or lack thereof, etc. Nothing like that. Just rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

The message I hear is one of hope. Anyone can recover from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. If you do the things, follow the directions, that are laid out in AA’s program of recovery, you will recover.

Does everyone’s experience jive with that? I do some reading around the forums and see people that have been struggling for months or years continue to struggle. And I did the same thing before I recovered. Now, there may be other ways to recover. I’m not knocking those. But does anyone have experience with someone NOT recovering as the result of AA’s 12 steps?

I’ve watched people from corporate lawyers to homeless guys recover via the 12 steps. Men and women. Folks that got to the rooms by judicial order. Atheists. Folks badgered into AA by their wives. Devout Christians. Those who work the steps seem to recover.

I saw a guy relapse about two years ago who seemed to have thoroughly worked the steps. One drink relapse. And he claims he was unwilling to sponsor people, so he questions his thoroughness. Another guy went out after 7 years, but he fully admits he stopped doing any spiritual work. He’s been back for 5 years now.

I guess I just shake my head sometimes reading the forum about all the questions and lack of decisiveness and searches for a recovery that fits what someone may personally believe. The proof is in the outcome. Work the steps and you will have a spiritual awakening and you will recover. Simple like.

[Believe808]

"Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path" I chose not to follow the path and drank after 15 years. Today I know that the only way I can remain sober is to thoroughly follow what many before me have done. Meaning Go to meetings, help another alcoholic, get a sponsor, work the steps, take a committment, and don't drink just for today. I love How it works because I know that it is exactly How it works. Thanks

[Astro]

Bill & Bob would probably roll over in their graves, but read that first line again and leave the word fail out, “Rarely have we seen a person who has thoroughly followed our path.”

Agreed, it's very simple, following it really is the easier, softer way. Each day, upon awakening, I merely have to ask myself: "Am I in, or am I out?" My life depends upon the answer.

[findingout]

Those who work the steps seem to recover.

This is true in my experience. It is also my experience that people who maintain a spiritual discipline of one kind or another appear to be happier and more content with their lives. I know it has made a positive difference in my own life, so I continue to do it.

I'd have to say A.A. works.

[FightingIrish]

I know one guy who has "done the steps several times" and cannot put more than a few weeks together. He doesn't bother to announce a day count anymore. Perhaps he is one of those people whose situation has shown "significant improvement."

I'm not sure what to make of it. I certainly don't think it's a reflection on the program; and I can't say for sure whether or not he was "thorough", but I'm assuming he was not sufficiently thorough.

[Pinkcuda]

I was under the impression that we "Take" the steps.
Wouldn't that be part of "Thoroughly" following the path?
To answer the question, yes AA does work for you! Conditionally. You must work "The" Program and not "Your" Program. You must carry "The" Message and not "Your" Message.
Then and only then will AA work for you!
I added the "For You" to the answer to the question "Does AA work" because AA doesn't "Do" anything. You do!
Don't drink and go to meetings makes me want to choke. How bout we "Don't drink and take 12 steps" instead?

[laurie6781]

AA-Does it work?

Boy is that a loaded questions, rofl.

No, AA does now work. I have to work the program of AA, ie the 12 steps and all that entails.

First I took the steps, then the BIG part started, I had to WORK the steps, and I was going to have to WORK those steps every day for the rest of my life, ie LIVE the steps.

Here is something that has helped me tremendously to do that:

THE PRINCIPLES ARE THE STEPS


1. HONESTY
2. HOPE
3. FAITH
4. COURAGE
5. INTEGRITY
6. WILLINGNESS
7. HUMILITY
8. BROTHERLY LOVE
9. JUSTICE
10. PERSEVERANCE
11. SPIRITUAL AWAKENING
12. SERVICE

For me using the longer form, helped tremendously at first, until I went to the above list kept on my person or near me at literally all times, lol

Step 1: Honesty
After many years of denial, recovery can begin when with one simple admission of
being powerless over alcohol -- for alcoholics and their friends and family.

Step 2: Faith
It seems to be a spiritual truth, that before a higher power can begin to operate, you
must first believe that it can.

Step 3: Surrender
A lifetime of self-will run riot can come to a screeching halt, and change forever, by
making a simple decision to turn it all over to a higher power.

Step 4: Soul Searching
There is a saying in the 12-step programs that recovery is a process, not an event.
The same can be said for this step -- more will surely be revealed.

Step 5: Integrity
Probably the most difficult of all the steps to face, Step 5 is also the one that provides
the greatest opportunity for growth.

Step 6: Acceptance
The key to Step 6 is acceptance -- accepting character defects exactly as they are
and becoming entirely willing to let them go.

Step 7: Humility
The spiritual focus of Step 7 is humility, asking a higher power to do something that
cannot be done by self-will or mere determination.

Step 8: Willingness
Making a list of those harmed before coming into recovery may sound simple. Becoming
willing to actually make those amends is the difficult part.

Step 9: Forgiveness
Making amends may seem like a bitter pill to swallow, but for those serious about
recovery it can be great medicine for the spirit and soul.

Step 10: Maintenance
Nobody likes to admit to being wrong. But it is absolutely necessary to maintain
spiritual progress in recovery.

Step 11: Making Contact
The purpose of Step 11 is to discover the plan God as you understand Him has for your
life.

Step 12: Service
For those in recovery programs, practicing Step 12 is simply "how it works."

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[shaun00]

i see it working often....

But all to often i hear newcomers in the rooms believeing that the fellowship is the programme........and the book is just an "add on" or something to read out at the beginning.

i spoke to a newcomer recently that believes he drank again because he wasnt doing the..ninety in ninety................when i spoke to him about my experience with the program and steps he said "it wont work for me because im not religous"....

yes the program works for me...not just because i havent drank since i got into the book with guildance.
slowly over time my whole attitude and thinking patterns have changed..

i feel my mind has been re-born and doesnt resemble the old me...

i think the biggest deal for me was.......getting away from "self"....

NOT a easy task for this self seeker........but i do know and believe that if the first thought ISNT about me.......ive got half a chance of staying contented without drinking.

[Tommyh]

AA worked for me when I took the action the Big Book suggested..and the guys I have sponsored who took the action the book suggests are still sober too,however,AA ( the big book) will not fix all the problems someone may have..but they can address those sober

[tommyk]

I can only share my own experience, strength, and hope on what has worked for me.

But there is NO GUARANTEE that what works for me will work for anyone else.

(However I will GUARANTEE that if you don't try it, it won't work. )

1,000 people who have 10 years of sobriety each can go back to drinking tomorrow... it will have NO effect whatsoever on the success I have found.

My own suggestion might be to stop watching others and apply what might work to your own life.

[navysteve]

Yup,
It works-it really does.

[tiburon88]

No how could one program be the perfect fit for 1000's of alcoholics.

[Pinkcuda]

As usual Tib, you're right and the countless thousands of AA members that got sober and stayed sober are wrong.

[laurie6781]

No how could one program be the perfect fit for 1000's of alcoholics.

No Tib, not thousands ............................................. MILLIONS all over the world.

I know you have a very hard time with AA. However, no matter what program or 'method' of recovery one chooses, SMART, RR, or any number of others, ......................... none of them will work unless the individual puts their 'heart and soul' into WORKING that method, EVERY DAY, DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[Puddy]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

No how could one program be the perfect fit for 1000's of alcoholics.

easy. because it's divinely inspired. Same way the Bible has effective spiritual lessons for millions of people.

there is only one program in the big book. The program.

take it or leave it but if you take it all, buy the whole package, hold nothing back, it'll work.

if my Aunt Matilda makes the best blueberry muffins in the world, and I want to make them too, I follow her recipe exactly. And I get those blueberry muffins.

if I decide to be my own genius, & I use white flour instead of brown, bake at a higher temp for a shorter time cuz I'm in a hurry, I'll end up with . . .

not those muffins. In my experience what would come out would hardly be edible.

the book is a recipe for a spiritual experience sufficient to overcome alcoholism. take it or leave it.

[findingout]

We used this question as our table's topic at my meeting tonight. It was a great meeting.

Admittedly a small sample size, but 8 out 8 alcoholics with different amounts of time in recovery agreed that it works if you work it. All of it. Eight meeting makers who are making it, one day a time, by making the program their program and trying to practice it in all their affairs.

Many thanks to the original poster. You made a good meeting better for people you will probably never meet.

[24hrsAday]

it takes time.. and.. you have to want it.. but it does work!

[Sheryl85]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

No how could one program be the perfect fit for 1000's of alcoholics.

In a sense you are right. You said “perfect fit” . . . when I started out it wasn’t a “perfect fit.” The Program was like putting on a new pair of shoes that I had to grow into. It was uncomfortable in the beginning. It didn’t quite fit. They wanted me to do things that I didn’t know how to do or in some cases, didn’t want to do. But try to understand, this isn’t magic. It’s real.

I have an acquaintance who told about his experience in the Program. His father had been sober for years. He’d grown up around it. He heard and saw a living example of the success this program can offer the alcoholic, yet he stumbled and bumbled around this Program for years. Finally he went to treatment (again) and this time after reading aloud the first couple of lines of “How it works,” the Program Director looked at him and said, “So, which are you?”

He looked at him and said something brilliant like, “Huh?”

The Director looked at him and quoted again, “Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program . . . Are you a “cannot” or a “will not?”

Since that time Richard has tried, with seeming success (today anyway), to thoroughly follow our path.

As for me, the Program fits me like a well worn shoe today. Perhaps it’s because I’m finally “broke-in.”

Keep asking those questions my dear, because that’s a good thing! But be sure to follow up on the research as well. Try to follow the path thoroughly and see how well it can fit for you.

[optra]

Quote:
Work the steps and you will have a spiritual awakening and you will recover. Simple like.
My thoughts and experience exactly!

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by keithj

But does anyone have experience with someone NOT recovering as the result of AA’s 12 steps?

No, of the somewhat few people I know that have worked all 12 steps... they are recovered. There's a bunch of people I know who are "working" the steps and I don't know what step they're on or if they've done them all... if they've completed all their amends, or if they do prayer and meditation. But they're sober nonetheless.

There's a lot of people who go to meetings in my town who just don't work steps or they did them so long ago that they don't talk about their experience about them in meetings. I don't identify with them and they don't identify with me. But there again, some of these people don't seem to drink. Seems like the guys who drink weren't working steps or were stuck on a step like 4 or 9.

I know a guy now who's sober longer than me, is working his gizzards off, sponsoring guys, has started 2 young people's meetings, busy with family... and he's depressed. He's always down on himself. He's bummed one of his sponsee's won't finish his inventory. But the guy he's sponsoring is sober longer than he's ever been at about 70 days. But I ask him where he's at. He recently asked ME to go through the steps with him again. I said, "I've got a short 2 and a half months to live in 10, 11, and 12 before I go through the steps with the group again. I said, "How's 10 and 11 coming along? How's prayer and meditation?" He said he's not doing it.

I said "Do it. Do it every day, On Awakening, When we Retire at Night, the throughout the day stuff... Do it for a week straight and we'll talk about it."

He keeps wanting to go back into inventory again. He's this guy who is always writting inventory! I don't get that. His sponsor is one of the most solid guys in all of Pueblo, a good friend of mine.

If you're gonna be stuck on a step, why would you want to be stuck on Step 4? Why not Step 11?

[Charmie]

hello folks,,,a resounding yes from me! little history,,1st drank for affect at 13,then ensued from about the age of 16 ,20 yrs of alcoholic drinking,complete unmanagability,one disaster after another,you know the rest.fast forward to today.put drink down 1st jan,went to AA.drank for 12 hours on 6th feb.an act of providence made me see the light.it was like an experiment.anyway,i started looking for a sponsor,couldnt honestly find anybody that fit the bill at the meetings i attend,this was a life or death descision,so i prayed on it,i put it in Gods very capable hands.lo and behold a lady visited our meeting and they asked her to chair,she lives just over 50 miles away from me.i heard her share and bang!,,i spoke to her and knew i would be seeing her again in a few weeks at a convention.i listened to her again then,and of course prayed on it,rang her 2 days later and asked her to sponsor me and she said yes.we were put in each others paths i believe.that was 2 months ago and we went through 6,7,8,9 the other day and i made my first amends yesterday.i was scared but again prayed,for my fear to be replaced with courage.it was with my little 80 yr old neighbour,not much to be scared about i hear you say,well it was,shes a very formidable lady and over the yrs of course i thought she was horrible but looked inside myself and found it very easy to see why her instincts were all to **** after the way i had treated her! it went wonderfully! my uncle is another from my very long list and lives close so i can make my amends to him fairly quickly,was thinking about meeting him before i go away next week.didnt need to,he rang me this morning,he is selling his house and the people buying it need him out on the 22nd june,he cant move to his new place until 6th july.him,his wife to be and his grown up daughter and 2 dogs need a place to stay,,can i give them a roof over their heads? with pleasure!,,2 months ago i would have said sorry for rambling,well im not,i think its a great story and things like this keep happening all the time.it works if you work it.every morning before i get up i pray.i say thank you for yesterday,for the beautiful surroundings,my friends and family and give a moment for the still suffering alcoholic.and for God protecting me and giving me this programme with which to live a useful and happy life.i then ask for courage to do his will and say the 3rd step prayer.i have a lot of contact with God throughout the day and of course pray on my knees at bedtime too and review my day.i no longer sit in meetings and tell a drunk alog unless there is a newcomer that needs identification,but i do it in condensed form and tell them more about how things are now and how it could be for them if they want it.the turnaround in my life is a miracle i can assure you.i tick all the boxes as far as who the book was written for and i deemed myself hopeless.not anymore,He has plans for me.

[jimhere]

The program works, but I am not going to theorize on why some "get it" and some don't.

What I have noticed is that some of the guys I work with are mad dogs. They are like me. They are mad dogs when they drink and mad dogs about recovery. Others just seem to treat the steps as homework and, although they follow directions to the T, it seems like they are just saying what they think everyone wants to hear and trying to win my approval. I still work with them, but the experience is flat and is kind of draining. Most of these guys don't finish amends and never go far into 10, 11, & 12.

I believe that it is possible to work the steps, and although a person stays sober, to not really have an experience. If there is no surrender that flows from an experience of hitting bottom, not much happens.

About writing inventory. I approach that in two ways. I write a lot of inventory. When I take someone through the steps, I do it too. When they write, I write. And I include writing inventory in my 11th Step practice. I write out the questions on page 86, "Before Retiring." If the same thing comes up after a few days, I write inventory and read it to someone. But I see McGow's point. The point od inventory is to face and be rid of what blocks me. Because what blocks me also keeps The Power of God from flowing out to those I would help. I heard Don P. say one time that a business that never takes inventory will go broke, but that a business that's always taking inventory will go broke too, because it's never open for business. So inventory can become just another exercise in self-obsession if we're not careful.
Jim

[DaveBB164]

AA works for me when I work for AA, I really like what Jim said about inventory, I always remind myself inventory is essentially finding the truth and I can do three things with the truth,

1,ignore it,
2, change the truth to match my thinking,
3, change my thinking to match the truth,

I think its important to share inventory with my sponsor or an experienced like minded person so I know what I am seeing is the truth and not my truth.