Toxic family

[OzSandy]

Please understand that I am not asking this in order to be provacative. No doubt many of you who have had success with AA will have similar stories (probably worse) in your backgrounds, and I am truly interested in hearing how you dealt with it.

I am going to just my second AA meeting next week, after not going since early January.

I have had a lot of relationship difficulties with my family. I feel that many things were neglected during my upbringing, and contributed to my circumstances today. At this point I don't feel like going into details, because I think it could be sensitive on a recovery board. But I still find it difficult, and late last year I decided I just wanted some space from them all.

I'm in the process of mending relationships right now with my family but I'm tired of feeling like it comes down to me all the time.

If anyone has some advice I would be grateful. Sometimes I have felt more like the 'carer' than the child in my relationship with my parents. They are now getting on a bit so I guess it's normal that the roles are reversing now but ever since I was very young I felt like I had to be 'in charge' of things.

I'm asking this because I feel it is getting in the way of my going through the 12 steps. I'd like to know how to get past all this. I'm divided between looking after myself and looking after my family.

[tommyk]

I'd like to suggest hitting a lot of AA meetings and sharing there.

See what kind of feedback you get from others who may have experienced similar situations.

[Pinkcuda]

Nothing in our lives is a direct result of what happened in our past. The way we learned to react to things that happened is what we are comprised of today. Your family is off the hook because he resentment is 100% yours. You own it. There's really no room to point a finger at anyone else in AA because they're not the ones that need to change. How would it sound if you told someone "You need to change your ways so I can heal"? We probably wouldn't be healing anytime in the near future. So therefore this statement is valid.

I'm in the process of mending relationships right now with my family but I'm tired of feeling like it comes down to me all the time.

It actually is coming down to you all the time.

[OzSandy]

It actually is coming down to you all the time.

Thanks for letting me know. Sort of what I expected.

[Sugah]

When I got sober, and all the way up to my father's death, I had difficulty being in a room with him for more than fifteen minutes without getting upset. I'm the youngest of seven kids, and the only other sibling who lived close enough to help was my brother, my father's step-son. He felt little if any obligation to help my father. When it came to 9th step amends, I had a hard time owning only my part in my relationship with my father (he was a 24-year dry alcoholic and very abusive in my childhood). I did it, though, just to get it done, and of course, he brushed it off. There was no miraculous transformation in our relationship. There were times I considered detaching completely like I had from other "toxic" people in my family, but he was old, and he was sick, and he really didn't have anyone else. My mother was ten years older and developing dementia.

Know what I did? When I came home from a visit with my parents, I'd call my sponsor or another person in the program who had a good program, and I'd vent my frustrations. Little by little, I found tolerance. I worked through emotions by revealing what was motivating them. I grew and gained a little patience. And, I reserved the right to walk out if the **** got too deep there. I'm not sorry I saw it through. I got to make a deeper amends to my father in the last month of his life, and I got to understand a little more of what made him who he was. I had the blessing of 12 steps to help me deal. He had nothing but his white-knuckle grip to get through life. How could I be resentful of him for not knowing something I had to be taught?

My mother is a different story. I just got off the phone with her. She's got full-blown dementia now, and though the nearby brother does help, I'm learning more patience with her. She was always so wrapped up in my father's temper and expectations that she wasn't the kind of mother I wanted her to be. The phone rings, I pick it up, and she immediately launches into her list of complaints. Months go by without her asking me how I am. My rights and all that... I follow the same pattern in dealing with her that I did with my dad when he got really sick. I deal with my side of the relationship and let her have hers without expectation or condition that she change.

I'm not sure what's making you stuck as far as the steps go. If it's an abusive past that you're trying to find "your part" in, here's my view. I didn't do anything to deserve a fist to the gut, a slap to the face, being sent to bed without dinner, or being lectured for hours by a raving drunk. I'm not responsible for my mother's neglect in getting me medical or psychological care. I am responsible for being an adult and deciding if I can live with and have a relationship with these people, and I'm responsible for my own boundaries. The amends I made to them dealt with stealing, lying and manipulating them out of things when I was older because I thought I deserved payback for what they put me through.

The beautiful thing about the steps is that anyone who wants to can take them and put them into practice.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[OzSandy]

Yes, and I agree that ultimately it is down to myself and what I choose to do or become. I have always believed that, and I think that is what has gotten me this far.

[OzSandy]

I am really starting to regret this thread now, but at least I know where everything stands.

I actually have a lot of respect for AA, and am trying to follow that path. But as I've said previously, maybe some of these things should be brought up with a professional. I've never wanted to start an argumentative thread.

Maybe that is just it with me, and I'm sorry to say that.

I just don't know what help it is to say to a newcomer to just 'get over it' and 'stop feeling sorry for yourself'. I never have, because I have never had that luxury.

[Sugah]

Originally Posted by OzSandy

I am really starting to regret this thread now, but at least I know where everything stands.

Try not to get ahead of yourself, Sandy. By the time you get to any 4th step stuff, you may have a very different perspective.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[OzSandy]

Thank you Sugah, that is very helpful with the situation I am in right now.

It sounds like you know all about family complications, and that is what I am going through at the moment and trying to deal with.

[FightingIrish]

Yes, I always have a part. Even if I suffered harm and did not cause a situation, how I react to it, whether I let it ruin my life, whether I stay "stuck", are all "my part."

The spiritual axiom was a tough one for me to digest: that every time we are disturbed, no matter what the cause, there is something wrong with us.

Through the steps I have learned that this axiom is the path to freedom. I learned to accept at core that my spiritual condition does not depend on what others do or don't do.

Michael

[jimhere]

Sandy,
Why do you regret starting this thread? I don't see any arguing going on. All you did was ask a question.

I have some experience with what you are asking about. Feel free to PM me if you feel I can be of service.
Jim

[keithj]

It's a tough one for sure. I held off on some ammends and hung on to some resentment because of the same things you are expressing. Why should I have to be the one to make this right? It's not fair that I should have to do it.

But I learned that fairness is a fantasy. I spent 37 years of my life being 'right' and needing things to be fair. It just didn't work for me. The book says we had to master resentment or it kills us. Those are the facts.

Fair or not, right or not, when I took those actions, prayed for willingness, made amends, and stopped harming others, I found freedom. Freedom, not relief. So fair or not, those were the things I had to do to have what I have.

And it's better than I imagined.

[laurie6781]

My family (parents not sister) were TOXIC to me in my earlier recovery. So, to continue to try and heal myself at 6 years sober I went NO CONTACT. I had to for MY SOBRIETY, MY SERENITY, MY SANITY, AND MY PIECE OF MIND.

That NC lasted a bit over 5 years. By then I was in a better place, no longer 'pointing the finger' at them, knowing and understanding a lot more about 'them' (I couldn't change them, only me and the way I reacted to them). It was alright. Not perfect but alright. My Dad and I became close the last 8 years of his life and my Mom and I could actually communicate without it turning into WWIII 99% of the time the last 12 years of her life.

I had to use my "Priority List" with my family as well as with all in my life:

HP first,

Then myself,

Then those around me in order of importance to me.

If I could not maintain my sobriety there would be no "those around me in order of importance to me."

In the process of NC for so long I was able to 'look' at myself. 'Learn' more about myself and my EXPECTATIONS of others. I found that MY expectations was the 'root' of my resentments and anger.

As Pinkcuda said I was able to figure out that it was not what was or was not done it was MY reactions to the situations.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[sugErspun]

I think it's important to remember that the process of the twelve steps puts us in contact with a power that can truly work wonders. Sometimes quickly sometimes slowly, right?

I certainly have similair situations, and through good sponsorship and always being directed back to this power, rather than getting opinion...I am at peace with some relationships that are not pleasant and I cannot break from (family and such).

Everything or nothing. I have to remind myself of that simple little fact and the decision I made..


(Suagh, thanks for your post ~ It helped me tremendously).

~A

[Charmie]

hello.i had awful resentments and anger towards my mother for years and blamed her for everything! i got back to AA at the begining of the year and to start with i just had the serenity prayer as a mantra,especially the first line concrning my mum! ive got a sponsor now and im embarking on the steps.last week i had to go to my home town to attend my uncles funeral (my mums younger brother) and was dreading it,my mum has issues with drink and i just did not know how things were going to turn out,but do you know what it couldnt have gone any better.i put my HP first,then pray for others,then myself every morning and every night and frequently throughout the day.from what i have learned already in AA i was able to deal with everything last week (including my mum!) in a calm and rational manner.my siter said the change in me is phenomenal.i hope my share of my little bit of ESH is of some help to you.it gets better.

[Freedom1990]

My experience with toxic family members was much the same as Laurie's. I eventually reached a point where I had to go no contact for my own sanity and recovery.

I've definitely had family of origin issues that were resolved through working the 12 steps, and there are times I've needed the extra help of therapy to work through some things in that area.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by OzSandy

I am really starting to regret this thread now, but at least I know where everything stands.

I actually have a lot of respect for AA, and am trying to follow that path. But as I've said previously, maybe some of these things should be brought up with a professional. I've never wanted to start an argumentative thread.

Maybe that is just it with me, and I'm sorry to say that.

I just don't know what help it is to say to a newcomer to just 'get over it' and 'stop feeling sorry for yourself'. I never have, because I have never had that luxury.

Welcome. Sometimes in AA when people tell you things that hurt your feelings or things you don't want to here, they're trying to help! Funny paradox, huh?

The statement "My problems are of my own making" is one of the greatest statements of hope AA has to offer. This merely means that you and them don't have to change for me to be ok. You can go on being you and I'm fine with it. You can be nice to me and that's great. You can be mean to me and that's wonderful.

There's a possibility that I'm spiritually sick and/or bankrupt and I have work to do. "Almost none of us like the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of short-comings which the process requires for its successful consummation."

We're assuming that you are A) an alcoholic and B) desire to stop drinking for good and all. If you're here for something else, we can't help you and maybe a professional can. But if you're a real alcoholic and need to do steps to get and stay sober, then the professional will charge you a lot of money to tell you what you don't want to hear and what will hurt your feelings. But if you're not OR you decide to be one of those who "find another way besides AA", then that's fine and the money will be well spent... perhaps.

You want our experience in this. This we can give. I got sober and kind of thought the family would want to follow suit. Not the case. But recently, my dad has stopped drinking booze and my older brother is a Born Again Southern Baptist! He's on fire! But he truly is a miracle. He's even made amends to me! And his whole family, business associates, etc., and expects no less from me. I think it's great.

But it don't matter. When I get to the part of AA where I make amends (oh, and my experience is AA btw), it don't matter what they do or did. They may have wronged me. But by then, they either changed and it's water under the bridge, I find my part in it, or they're still sick and I let them be them and interact with them from a new world and a new mind.

In AA, we get freedom. They don't control us anymore, we get to have God help us be different people, and maybe...just maybe... family will come to us and see that it's good and wish us well. They may even wonder what you did and "attract" to the new you.

It's win-win, the Spiritual life.

Good luck. Go well.

PS: Oh, I forgot... my experience with my mom. One of the worst amends I ever made was to my mom. The other one was to my dad. With my mom, I'd finished amends and should have walked away. But instead, since all she told me to do is go on with my life and be happy, was I told her that I owe her an amend for "trying to be the parent or adult in our family". Her face dropped when I told her this. I said, "What can I do to set this right?" She said, "Hmmm... I'll get back to you with this later."

I cause her harm. I should have shut my mouth.

The one with my dad was when my mom was having lung-cancer surgery. She had half of her heart-side lung taken out, quit smoking and is living and breathing happily today! But during that time, my dad and I got into a fight. We were both exhausted and thought she was dying on us. He came to me and said, "What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you doing this to me now? What happened to those amends?! Take your amends and shove it!"

I didn't make amends with him for 2 years after that.

Be careful when you get here, but fear not. Do these steps one at a time! When you get to amends, be very clear on the harm. The harm you did them and that's it! You clean off your side of the street. If you can't do this, don't do them at all. Just do a living amend (aka leave them the ef alone) and pray for their happiness, joy, peace, abundance, etc.

[freya]

OzSandy:

First off, you need to know 100% and for certain that, whatever bad and/or abusive and/or neglectful things were done to you as a child by members of your family, none of that is OK, none of it is excusable and absolutely none of it was deserved by you. No child deserves anything but the very best and there is no excuse for any child getting less. (There are certainly reasons, but there are NO excuses!)

The thing is, now you are an adult and the choice as to whether or not you allow whatever trauma you have suffered in your past to define you, control you, and determine the course of your life is 100% absolutely yours. The 12 Steps offer you a way to learn to make different, more healthy choices about that than you have probably been making thus far.

Secondly, I don't know your family and/or what they are like now and/or what your relationship with them is now. I also don't know much about you and what you (in your healthy, recovering self) want and need in your life. I do, however, know that you deserve to have that and that you have every right (and indeed, every responsibility) to take care of yourself and to make sure you get it. If your family (and/or you relationship with them) stands in the way of your doing so, then that means you have every right (and indeed every responsibility) to put as much distance (emotional and/or physical) between you and them as you need for as long as you need to do so.

Working the Steps will help you figure out exactly what you want and need and can handle and when. It will also prepare you to be able to set boundaries and advocate for yourself in healthy, respectful ways that do not just set you up to feel guilty and need to make more amends down the road.

3rd: I hear a lot of stories in the rooms about people healing their relationships with their familes through working the Steps......that happens for some people and it's certainly great when it happens. I hear some stories from people in the rooms, who, while their family relationships have not exactly been healed, they themselves are nonetheless able to go into family situations on a limited basis and have limited relationships with family members without endangering their own serenity or recovery and who seem to get enough out of those limited relationships to make their participation in them worthwhile for them.

However, I also hear a lot of stories in the rooms from people who seem to be chasing ever-after a family relationship that their family members are incapable of having with them and who contiue to put themselves in situations that cause them pain and emotional trauma in the hope that one day their family will beome the family that they want and need. Very often, these people seem to be operating under the assumption that their program demands that they continue to put themselves in these hurtful situations and remain in relationship with these hurtful, toxic people.

Personally, I have yet to discover anything in the 12 Steps that supports this kind of masochism/martyrdom.

Step work is defintely going to require that you accept your part and do what you need to do clean up your side of the street. But that does not mean that you are somehow obligated to continue to associate with anyone who treats you poorly -- regradless of that person's title, position and/or legal or blood-relation to you.

If you are new to recovery and just beginning to work the steps, you do not need to rush your decisions about any of this, and, even if you make a decision, you are always free to change your mind later when you are further along and have a better/different understanding of yourself and your needs. It's very, very important for your recovery that you concentrate on where you are right now and the Step you're on right now. As long as you work the Steps with honesty to the best of your ability (with the help of a sponsor and your HP, of course!) all of these other issues will come up in the time and the order that they need to come up, and that will be at a point when you will be ready and able to consider them and deal with them much more healthily and fruitfully than you possibly can right now.

Time takes time; healing takes time. Just keep moving forward -- one Step at a time -- and you will give yourself both!

freya

[Charmie]

very well said freya.thanks for that.

[OzSandy]

At the moment there is only very limited contact with my family. I talk to my father occasionally but haven't spoken to my mother since late last year. I haven't seen my nephew either (my parents are looking after him because my sister died from an overdose last year).

My father was an alcoholic as I was growing up. He wasn't abusive, but he was very detached. However, he dealt very well with the events of last year and these days we seem to have reached an 'understanding'.

Mental illness runs in my mother's side of the family. And she doesn't have any treatment for it.

I have depression/anxiety and alcohol issues myself. But at least I'm trying to take responsibility for them. I recognise the effect it has on others. I can remember times when my parents seemed too wrapped up in their own dramas and arguments to care much about my sister and I. We lived in quite a small home and there was no privacy for anyone. But even now my mother will get angry and doesn't seem to care what she says with my nephew present (and God knows he's already been through enough).

I don't know if I'm ready for full contact again with my family right now, though my father is trying to organise it.

Thanks for the responses. I've just seen other threads like this degenerate into arguing and become polarised. I'll have to think about all this but thanks for the perspectives. I need to hear about it from folks who have been in the same situation. I DO want to get past it all. After all I'm 36 years old now, I'm tired of it weighing me down.

[OzSandy]

I spent some time with my father today and we had quite a good talk. I'm going to spend maybe half an hour with my mother on Friday, and I intend to just keep it brief and low key. Dad says that should be okay.

This is the issue which is probably giving me the most trouble, going into AA. I just hope it's not going to block my recovery.

My nephew's other side of the family have been accusing my parents of being responsible for my sister's addiction problems - this is what they told Billy when he visited them in January. She made her own choices, as did I.

[OZboy]

I'm listening Ozgirl Sandy and my heart will always be here..lol Oz.....

[Cubile75]

My father was alcoholic, he got recovery when my parents divorced while I was in college. My mom, who passed me my first joint when I was 12 years old, didn't. But I am not sure she is not just a hard drinker, party type...

I became relatively successful as a rebellion... I wasn't gonna live the kind of life my parents had... Initially my relationship with my mom was OK... My dad died 10 years ago, 24 years after the divorce... I blamed my mom (long story... it's your post)... never told her that I did. She moved far away, became distant.... I become alcoholic, got in trouble for pills....

It's not her fault, I had gotten myself out of the lifestyle I was raised in... I later on got myself in my own trouble and alcoholism.

I am 8 months clean and sober... I have wanted as little to do with her as possible.... But I know she worries about me, wants to be a part of my life and my family's... I am not ready quite yet.

I'll have some amends to make. The beauty of the 12 steps, I think, I'm told, is that when it comes time, I will be ready. It will be good for both of us.

Don't know if that applies to your original post, or helps.... But your post helps me. Thanx

Mark

[TigerLili]

Getting sober is challenging for sure. I found all my stuff coming up to the surface to be dealt with, toxic family included. It's not going to interfere with your recovery unless you use it as an excuse to relapse. You drank because of your toxic family (among other reasons, I'm sure), so now that you are not medicating all that pain with alcohol, of course it's going to come up. Now you get to find a different way of dealing with it and managing it.

I see a therapist and work the Steps as outlined in the BB with my sponsor and they both help, but just AA isn't enough for what ails me. AA keeps me sober, but my therapist helps me deal with my family stuff. Yes, we deal with resentments and harms in Step 4, but doesn't sound like you're up to that yet.

Take it one day at a time and try not to let the disease of alcoholism convince you that your issues, as serious and challenging as they certainly are, are a reason to drink or not seek recovery.

Good luck

[Sugah]

Originally Posted by OzSandy

This is the issue which is probably giving me the most trouble, going into AA. I just hope it's not going to block my recovery.

Sandy, let AA help you with the drinking--without you putting pressure on yourself. There's nobody standing at the door with a clipboard, checking to see if you have an intact family. I remember calling my sponsor, telling her about a run-in with my dad, and she said to me, "Why did you put yourself through this today? Time takes time. Give it time." She was right. I needed to work on me alone before I could work on me with him.

I will pray things go well for you on Friday.

Peace & Love,
Sugah