Joe and Charlie

[jimhere]

I like the history too, especially the kind you mentioned Andrew. The kind no one wants to talk about or acknowledge or some even deny happened.

A book called "The Common Sense of Drinking" pre-dated AA. The book was written by a man named Richard Peabody, a recovered alcoholic from Boston, I believe. No doubt Bill read that book in his attempts at sobriety.

I happened to get ahold of a pdf copy of the book and as I read it, a few things were very clear. The line "Half measures availed us nothing" from Chapter 5 in The Big Book is lifted almost verbatim from "The Common Sense of Drinking." Also there is the story in that book of a man who wanted to be successful in business and decided not to drink until he was sucessful. He stayed sober for five years. Sound familiar? Only Bill decided that twenty-five years is more impressive. Kind of like the fish is this big when you catch it, but when you are telling the story, it is twice as big.

Then there is the story iof Rowland Hazard. Legend has it that Rowland worked with Jung for a year and the hooked up with The Oxford Group. Rhode Island historical records show that Rowland was in Europe for only about three months. He then came back to the states and got hooked with a man named Courtenay Baylor, recoverd alcoholic who was a lay therapist. Baylor had got sober in The Emannuel Movement in Boston and had been helped by Richard Peabody. Eventually Rowland did become associated with The Oxford Groups, but let's give credit where credit is due.

[AW2486]

The story or Frank Parkhurst & Bill W around the Big Book. Frank was Bill's first success in the New York area. They were connected at the hip during the whole book thing. Frank is one of the examples found in the Doctors Opinion. Frank was the person that nagged Bill about writing the book. Frank came up with the Works publishing Company idea to get money to pay Bill's rent so he could write the book. Frank hustled every cent he could from drunks to small companies to make the Big Book possible, and got drunk after it was published. Started publicly taking bad about Bill. It was all over money. Frank moved to Ohio and married Clarence Synder sister. I think I heard somewhere Clarence and Bill had differences over the traditions too.

The personality's of the early AA's is very interesting.

Jim B said it on his recording.. We were not saints... Just a bunch of drunks like the rest of AA.

[jimhere]

Andy,
You must mean Henry or "Hank" Parkhurst.

Hank Parkhurst died a miserable alcoholic death. And he wrote the most well written chapter in the book, IMO, "To Employers."

He is a classic example of the deflated ego's almost instantaneous reccuperative powers.

[AW2486]

Originally Posted by jimhere

Andy,
You must mean Henry or "Hank" Parkhurst.

Yes .. I meant Hank... glad I got his last name right. Thanks for the correction.

I did not know he authored "To Employers" Actually I've been reading "To Employers" this past week. Its interesting the first two pages he describes about three people he dealt with in his past that committed suicide.

The contributions some of the early AA's made and still ended up sadly drunk or dead.

[jimhere]

Yeah, pretty sad.

You mentioned Clarence. Clarence & Bill clashed as well. Clarence thought he wasn't getting the recognition he deserved. He considerd himself the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous. I've seen copies of some letters there were exchanged between Clarence and Henrietta Seiberling in which some pretty nasty things were said about Bill. In fact Henrietta Seiberling called Bill the devil incarnate.

Problems of money, property, and prestige indeed.

[AW2486]

This has nothing to do with this thread.. but anybody heard Bob B from St. Paul ? Guess he was a active circuit speaker in the 80's & 90's .. we have him speaking tonight at our small town church basement potluck. Hope he lets me record him.

[jimhere]

Yes I've heard Bob. It's been quite a few years though.

Many circuit speakers are nothing more than entertainers. Bob has some depth to his message though.

[AW2486]

He let me record him. Briskly went through his drinking career and focused most on finding the power in recovery. He was oustanding. I will send it to the XA-Speakers site. Usually takes 2-3 weeks for them to post.

[tomvlll]

Originally Posted by navysteve

One of the biggest problems I have with the Joe and Charlie series is:

Why do we need them? Why can't we study the Big Book ourselves and get our own spiritual awakening? What we get from Joe and Charlie is second hand

That's a fair point.

My take is this. There just certain people in AA who have knack for explaining things.
IMO, Joe and Charley are two of them. A guy by the name of Milt L.
is another. His 12 steps for Dummies is available for download on X speakers.

I would never us these as a substitute for the Big Book, rather as a complement.

[Tommyh]

now that we have been sober a while,we probably don`t appreciate Joe and Charlie as much as a newcomer would.How easy it is to forget sometimes.
I like the story of how they got started.Wesley P from Florida had heard them,liked them,and set up a dinner , invited a lot of guests.Under certain chairs he had sets of tapes taped to the bottom of the chairs.They gave them away during the meeting.It is said he even picked out the seats for the ones he wanted to get the tapes

[navysteve]

That's a fair point.

My take is this. There just certain people in AA who have knack for explaining things.
IMO, Joe and Charley are two of them. A guy by the name of Milt L.
is another. His 12 steps for Dummies is available for download on X speakers.

I would never us these as a substitute for the Big Book, rather as a complement.

I agree with all that my friend, Joe and Charlie had a gift of gab and were able to communicate a message.

give freely of what you find and join us

A Total $460 value for only $235
Crazy?? Not Near enough!
Buy 10 sets at $40 each and WE PAY THE SHIPPING.

From the Joe & Charlie Big Book Study::CDs & MP3 Downloads::Family Recovery::AA & Al-anon which boasts exclusive rights to record the Red Deer 2003 Big Book Study featuring world renowned AA speakers Joe & Charlie.

Its a shame, I used to love going to sessions by the sea in Ocean City MD, now I can't remember why we are there. Oh yeah, the concession stands...

[AW2486]

Bob B said some conferences he talks at the taper want him to sign a copyright agreement. He says he refuses every time.

[tomvlll]

Originally Posted by jimhere

I like the history too, especially the kind you mentioned Andrew. The kind no one wants to talk about or acknowledge or some even deny happened.

A book called "The Common Sense of Drinking" pre-dated AA. The book was written by a man named Richard Peabody, a recovered alcoholic from Boston, I believe. No doubt Bill read that book in his attempts at sobriety.

Ie.

No doubt. I just listened to a speaker tape by Jimmy Burwell.
He said the big book came from four books,
1. the common sense of drinking.
2. sermon on the mount.
3. varieties of rel, experience.
4 believing world.

[sugErspun]

Common Sense of Drinking

http://www.aabibliography.com/pdffil...inkPeabody.pdf

[TTOSBT]

I just wanted to thank you all. I really appreciate all the replies and input!!

[shaun00]

Thankyou to the guys that posted the useful links......

I now have some new cds to play whilst in the cabin. fishing tomorrow.

Back in three days..........trucker

[1ofgodskids]

I've been to Joe and Charlie workshops a few times, I hope they start doing them again, weekend events. The 16-20 week workshops are also great, very good for those who have never worked the steps as suggested in the BB, and always good for those who have. Love these guys. Doing the workshop right now and hoping they are tour again so our group can go see them when we're done with our workshop. Enjoy them!

Originally Posted by TTOSBT

Hi guys.
I have heard lots of people speak of the Joe and Charlie tapes, etc.
I was wondering if anyone had a link to them or transcripts?
Also, what do you think of them?
Talk, talk, talk!

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by 1ofgodskids

I've been to Joe and Charlie workshops a few times, I hope they start doing them again, weekend events. The 16-20 week workshops are also great, very good for those who have never worked the steps as suggested in the BB, and always good for those who have. Love these guys. Doing the workshop right now and hoping they are tour again so our group can go see them when we're done with our workshop. Enjoy them!

Well, for that to happen, Joe would have to come back to life.

Why not pass on our experience instead? As long as we are passing on what those came before us passed on to us, those guys will always be around any way.

[CarolD]

1ofgodskids....
Welcome to sR

[Puddy]

Originally Posted by jimhere

My old home group was formed by a man & his wife that had been sober many years without doing the steps and were dying in AA. In 1988, someone gave them a set of the original Joe & Charlie tapes and they did the steps with Joe & Charlie. Then they started sponsoring people through the steps and group was born. That group is 200 members strong now and has helped many. It is an active, healthy AA group.

Is this a Seattle group Jim?

Dave

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by Puddy

Is this a Seattle group Jim?

Dave

Yes, the one that meets in Ballard on Tuesday nights. It may look like the statement that it is 200 members strong is an exaggeration because the meeting itself is not that big. But members are now scattered around the country and even in other countries. The founders now live in Olympia and there is a Solution Group down there. Because Ballard is sort of a Scandinavian neighborhood, many foreign exchange students from the Scandinavian countries end there and some of the alcoholic ones end up in The Solution Group. There is now a Solution Group in Iceland and offshoots in Norway. Plus other members like myself move away. Because of my hours, plus the conscious decision I have made about how I want to live I rarely get down to Seattle anymore, but they still consider me a member And I guess I still am, at least in spirit. In fact I just got home from having dinner with several of them. About twenty of them came up to a meeting in Snohomish tonight on their monthly group travel. Not a lot of groups in this area that demonstrate that sort of unity.