has anyone else struggled with AA and been OK?

[kittykat58]

I got sober in 1988 (tomorrow is actually my 21 yr anniversary from my last drink) through AA and went to meetings regularly mostly through the first 10-11 years. around year 11-13 I was going less as I was gowing in my faith/church that found around year5. I was much happier around my chuch growth and felt that AA was very stagnant and full of alcoholic behavior (good, kind people but many who were arrogant, controlling, egotistical with "the program" and it realy got under my skin). I enjoyed the gentle and humble people I knew in my church, people who weren't always bragging about how many years they were sober or talking about how great they are b/c they didn't have a drink today.

I don't want to run AA down -- I still feel it is what got me on my sober feet, but I am not sure I have ever felt at ease with "the program" -- ie the literature, having a sponsor, the "cult" feel of meetings, imperatives that must be followed or surely you will drink (and die)...really kind of a call against individualism and personal growth -- more of a call to group-think.

then I think I am just buying into negativity or worse -- eek! eek! in denial.

has anyone ever found that AA wasn't really for them but they still could get/stay happily sober? I'm afraid to leave b/c I've been so brainwashed over the years that I feel if I do I'll be "struck drunk" or, at the very least, a "dry drunk".

I feel ok at meetings but always anxious when I speak (after 21 years!!), as if I am putting on a face of fellowship that I enjoy but don't neccessarily buy on all levels. I used to buy into it all, but I have a lot more to my life now than meetings and don't know how to make it a "part of" my life and be ok with that instead of it being the "end all and be all". I feel like a phony and a liar going to meetings if I don't buy it all, hook line and sinker.

does this make sense? what do you all think? do you have to always be pounding the big book to be truly sober? :praying

[sailorjohn]

Originally Posted by kittykat58

I was much happier around my chuch growth and felt that AA was very stagnant and full of alcoholic behavior (good, kind people but many who were arrogant, controlling, egotistical with "the program" and it realy got under my skin). I enjoyed the gentle and humble people I knew in my church, people who weren't always bragging about how many years they were sober or talking about how great they are b/c they didn't have a drink today.

Well, I thought about what you wrote and how I felt at the meeting today, the guy just jumped in and went into his rather rambling bit, have sat at a few tables with this guy, what made him think he was so qualified to lead the table, the arrogant sob! But then after reading your post I started to think-maybe I'm just being a little judgmental.

[Rob B]

Sounds like you have found a way that works for you, I'd follow your heart. I have found that AA is not a place I go for an hour or so, it's a way of living by spiritual principles that has allowed me to get comfortable with being sober.

Many people first use AA to get sober and then move on and live happy sober lives. I'm glad that some stay to pass on the program of recovery, but if your heart isn't in it, I believe you could cause harm by staying. I couldn't pass on a message that I personally did not believe in entirely. TO thine own self be true.

Ultimately I would pray on it and ask what God would have you do.

[laurie6781]

does this make sense? what do you all think? do you have to always be pounding the big book to be truly sober?

See now I don't believe that is sobriety. At least now what I learned when I came through the doors in June of '81.

Sure those first years I did attend a lot of meetings, and I did work with my sponsor and her hubby (my 'other' sponsor, lol). I worked the steps. More importantly, was something that they taught me by their own actions.

AA is about LIVING SOBER, with some semblence of pece and serenity. By year 6 I was living in an area of the country that there were 3 meetings a week and they were 80 miles away, so if it was winter, I weather was bad, I sometimes went several weeks without a meeting. It was then I really understood what Hugh used to say to me:

"We learn how to LIVE sober here in the meetings and from the book, and THEN we take it OUT THERE and do it." WOW what a concept.

Do I go to meetings today? Sometimes. I had various lengths of not attending meetings for one reason or another, usually 80 to 100 hours a week taking care of my clients (terminally ill or totally incapcitated home care) and then I myself became quite ill.

Sounds to me as if you are doing what works for you. Me, I do what works for me. Do I still read my BB? You bet I do. Do I still get with the Indian Elders periodically? You bet I do. Do I still work with others? Yep.

Do I have to be an AA Nazi to stay sober? Nope. I share with others, if asked. I am not critical of someone who wants to try means other than AA to live sober, and there are some pretty goods ones out there now.

So, congrats on you 21 years!!!!! Keep doing what you are doing now and I bet you get another 21 One Day At A Time.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[WLDKATZ]

Honestly I have been to just 3 meetings this time.......I found that by finally hitting bottem losing it all and seeing what I had was so much more important to me than what I had with my booze and drugs.......I would think that after 21 years of sobrity you a nd you alone are the only one qualified to make the desision, me I am only on day 632......I know I will make it 21 and then some....congrads on such a sucessful recovery!

Hugs,
Pamm

[lizw]

Something I have noticed (probably in the last 2 years because of my bad health) is that a lot of people confuse 'the fellowship' with 'the program'.

The fellowship is full of people with flaws, myself included in that, and the program is about my relationship with God, and how I go about getting and keeping that.

At times I have noticed being part of the fellowship can mean buying into 'peer pressure' or the idea that it is right and healthy to be dependent on the group which is fine when one is new but at some point that has to change. People who are dependent on the group, after a reasonable amount of soberity, IMO are usually the ones who are demanding, bullying and think 'their way' is the only way to stay sober.

And I am not talking about taking the 12 steps here when I say 'my way' because the 'AA program' is obviously the 12 steps but rather things like having a sponsor you must call every day, doing 90 meetings in 90 days, going to certain meetings or not going to certain meetings, keeping company with people or not keeping company with certain people etc....

Everyone's ESH is different I suppose and maybe it's about finding our own voice and having the courage to express what we've done to get and stay sober instead of just running with the herd....

To thine own self be true and all that.

[CarolD]

Yes...SR has sober members who left AA.
They may not be as religious as you though.

You might want to use our Christians in Recovery Forum too.
Click on the link below to find it if your interested.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ians-recovery/


I'm not one....I still find joy and purpose in my AA committment.

Welcome....

[kittykat58]

I appreciate all the replies here.

the other matter that has been difficult for me, and which I posted elsewhere (but I'll post here b/c I am a 12 stepper), is that for the past 3-4 yrs I've used ambien or lunesta (prescribed) for chronic insomnia. I've had insomnia for many many years, before and since I got sober. certainly worse with sobriety. at around 5 years sobriety I was sleeping only a few hours every few nights and was suicidal.

I do not abuse the medicine and do not use it to get high. I take it when I go to bed and I sleep. I still use the same amount as I did 4 years ago (5-10mgs). as much as I've tried to use other techniques for insomnia, I only have so much control over life (if any!) and sooner or later normal stresses crowd in and I am left sleepless again.

I have a family and a professional work life and sleeplessness is so debilitating that I cannot comprehend going back to that misery. I have anxiety and PTSD and use an SSRI for that.

I do have a higher power, so I do pray, and God as I understand God is the center of my life. I think in all other ways I am a stable and productive member of society.

I do feel though, that I can't talk about this at meetings and I am afraid of the "big-opinioners" who I suspect will tell me or imply I am not sober due to use of this medication. I feel like I am carrying a secret and I wonder too if that is making me feel less comfortable at meetings -- I kind of fear it won't be accepted (or at least think it won't) -- so I say nothing, and start looking for reasons to pull away from meetings.

I feel like I'm cheating and don't deserve to claim my sober date. BTW -- it's today, 21 years.

12-steppers -- am I still sober?

[navysteve]

The only question I would have is:

Do you believe God delievered you to AA?

OK, I have two:

If you buy into that, wouldn't he want you to stay to carry the message to the still sick and suffering?

I have a friend who got sober through the church, he has over 20 years, and is very happy in his life. He is a usefull member of society.

I left AA for 7 years for alot of the reasons I hear here. I was sick of the Dogma ( it still bugs me) the brain washing, the gurus, the Big Book purists who believe the Big Book is the only authority on alcoholism.

I came back because of the debt I cannot repay. Am I still brainwashed? I never was. I relaize there are things about AA that are not the program.

[paulmh]

because of the debt I cannot repay

I wish they had never taken that out of the preamble since it captures my attitude towards AA. I can only tell people what it was like, what happened and what its like now - and in amongst all that there is a debt that I cannot repay to AA - the fellowship, the programme and the relationship created with the still-suffering alcoholic. AA opened me up to humanity again. How can I pay that off?

[aasharon90]

I have to go to meetings for myself and
to hear the message of recovery. There
are lots of people just coming in and I
know they will be looking for hope. People
like us with a number of yrs sober are
there to give them that hope.

If all the old timers stop going to meetings
then who will the newcomers look up to?

My soul purpose in life is to share my
own ESH with them. And I do do that
here mainly because i get nervous
speaking in front of others.

I get distracted easily at meetings and
have to work hard to concentrate on
the message and not the people. Some-
times its a social gathering.Gossip comes
into play and others airing our their personal
laundry in public.

I like keeping my personal business to
myself unless i choose otherwise.

Ive mentioned before that SR has been
my life line to AA. It is always here
for me and I can share in the comforts
of my own home and not be anxious
about anything.

You guys are absolutely awesome and
what a gift and tool to use in my recovery.

Im glad u r here for me.

Thanks for letting me share.

[nelco]

I couldn't pass on a message that I personally did not believe in entirely. TO thine own self be true.

I'm with rob on this one. I was glad to share my story this week with a young girl that felt very much alone, scared and felt no one understood her. When I shared my story, my ESH.... she identified and felt she much more comfortable sharing with someone that was through the same as her. I get great peace and comfort from my church but never got this. I believe the only way I can keep what I have is to give it away.
I never felt brainwashed, ever, I am free to live my life in any way I choose. no one should feel less than anyone else in A.A, we are all only an arms length away from a drink !! There are people everywhere talking the talk, I hang out with the people that walk the walk and are happy in their home lives, are living contently. I don't talk bb morn, noon and night.....there is a whole lot of living it be done. once I heard a guy say "be careful how you live, you may be the only copy of the bb a suffering alcoholic might read"

I do not abuse the medicine and do not use it to get high.

I don't have any experience with the medication you are on but again I suppose that is probably back to something rob said too......to thine own self be true................I think you answered your own question here

tomorrow is actually my 21 yr anniversary from my last drink

This is a wonderful thing ....Many , many congrats I hope you have many more happy sober days

[nelco]

ITS TODAY...............ITS TODAY congrats!!!!!

[CarolD]

I too take med's for several ongoing health issues.
What I take...why I use them is between myself and my doctors.

They have nothing to do with my DOS ...

This April....I will celebrate 20 years of continious AA recovery.


:

[PaulN]

kk58, you are not alone. And by the way, congratulations on 21 years!

I took a leave from AA at around 15 years sober. I made the mistake of wandering away from the program and being focused only on the fellowship. I stayed dry up to that point and reasonably happy, but little more. I was in a rut on what meetings I attended & why. I went to socialize with just a few members who I thought "had" it. Soon, I got to where I knew what they would say and how they would say it when a topic arose. I was bored, and I left.

I was also a volunteer firefighter then. I buried myself in getting my instructors license and eventually worked with our Chief in training other firefighters to become State certified. All very rewarding stuff ... you know, helping other humans.

But I still didn't have "it". Slowly, I began to have old thoughts, feelings & actions. Never one time, did I have a desire to pick up or did I. But on the inside, I began to see how unhappy I really was.

With out a lot more words, I found my way back. Certain situations I placed myself in and some things that just happened because that's how life works, motivated me. I found myself again, being motivated by pain.

I re-took the steps on my return. New sponsor, new meetings, etc. Through it all, I started becoming the person again, who I was born to be.

I'm an alcoholic. Other alcoholics took time away from their families, friends and other responsibilities, to help me ... any time of the day or night. I really like putting my head on the pillow at night with the feeling that God is using me to do that same thing. If I don't seek, I don't find. I don't find, I don't really live. I exist.

It's 10-12 for me today KK. I was great at taking .... it still takes lots of practice to be a giver. I found I couldn't do it w/o God, the program AND fellowship of AA.

What ever path you take, I hope it's one that fills your heart not only your head. Like others said, I will pray that God touches you with his will and you are accepting of it, what ever that may be.

[zoomer]

I was 6 months sober when I had a melt down and was put in the hospital. I found out I had bi-polar. I like you never want to function again or nonfuction with out the aid of medication because of the effects my medical condition had on my children, friends and family. I'd never sleep when I was manic and it made me so out of control. I consider myself sober with the aid of medication. I do not take sleep aids,but I did at first. I think my medication has enough sleep aids in it to where I do not need an extra sleep aid. BTU I'd take the advice of my doctor over anyone in AA because they are trained to deal with people and their disorders. As long as your following doctor's orders, you are sober. I know with my medication I cannot "get high" from it. It takes awhile for it to build up in your system to work. I'm only 4 and a half years sober and sometimes I do not like some of the people in AA. I work and go to school and take care of my kids. It's almost impossible for me to make meetings sometimes. When I do go everyone ask where have I been and if I'm alright (like did you relaps). I talk about how I go on line for recovery too and they look at me like I have two heads. I then feel like I'm not doing something right eventhough I'm sober and doing all the right things. I guess your not going to please everyone. Congrats on your 21 years! Your a wonderful example of how the program works along with following doctor's orders.

[24hrsAday]

hell yes! i struggled from the 1st time i went "back out" in 1991' after 17 months sober.. i never touched more than 6 months sober time between 1991- 2006 today i've been back in sobriety and A.A. just over two years. it has been a mighty struggle.

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by CarolD

I too take med's for several ongoing health issues.
What I take...why I use them is between myself and my doctors.

They have nothing to do with my DOS ...

This April....I will celebrate 20 years of continious AA recovery.


:

I also take meds for ongoing health issues and agree with Carol in that they have nothing to do with my date of sobriety.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by PaulN

kk58, you are not alone. And by the way, congratulations on 21 years!

I took a leave from AA at around 15 years sober. I made the mistake of wandering away from the program and being focused only on the fellowship. I stayed dry up to that point and reasonably happy, but little more. I was in a rut on what meetings I attended & why. I went to socialize with just a few members who I thought "had" it. Soon, I got to where I knew what they would say and how they would say it when a topic arose. I was bored, and I left.

I was also a volunteer firefighter then. I buried myself in getting my instructors license and eventually worked with our Chief in training other firefighters to become State certified. All very rewarding stuff ... you know, helping other humans.

But I still didn't have "it". Slowly, I began to have old thoughts, feelings & actions. Never one time, did I have a desire to pick up or did I. But on the inside, I began to see how unhappy I really was.

With out a lot more words, I found my way back. Certain situations I placed myself in and some things that just happened because that's how life works, motivated me. I found myself again, being motivated by pain.

I re-took the steps on my return. New sponsor, new meetings, etc. Through it all, I started becoming the person again, who I was born to be.

I'm an alcoholic. Other alcoholics took time away from their families, friends and other responsibilities, to help me ... any time of the day or night. I really like putting my head on the pillow at night with the feeling that God is using me to do that same thing. If I don't seek, I don't find. I don't find, I don't really live. I exist.

It's 10-12 for me today KK. I was great at taking .... it still takes lots of practice to be a giver. I found I couldn't do it w/o God, the program AND fellowship of AA.

What ever path you take, I hope it's one that fills your heart not only your head. Like others said, I will pray that God touches you with his will and you are accepting of it, what ever that may be.

This almost EXACTLY matches my experience, firefighter, wandering away, except I ultimately drank, and I was lucky enough to get a window of opportunity to "make it back', I've watched many many people with long term sobriety bounce on that "revolving door" like a fly on the window trying to make it back after they drank that couldn't (get sober again)

So for me, Today, I stay in AA, on the flip side, I have many many friends with 20+ years of sobriety that either "wandered away" from the program and go to church and are happy, healthy, sober people that still practice the principals, and I know people with 20+ years that have taken "sabbaticals" from AA.

The choice is ultimately yours, and I am not one who believes in the "fear based" program that many preach in the rooms.

The Program is an interior journey, not an exterior one, and like the sex inventory, while council with others is often desirable, we let God be the final judge (in my opinion and experience). So, for me, I'll keep going, but I have seen people indiviuate from the program successfully after 20 years, I just haven't been one of them.

Happy Birthday

[jimhere]

First off, happy twenty-one years.

As Steve said, I believe it is about where God puts you. When I was between two and three years sober I tried joining a church. I went nuts. Found out I didn't belong there. AA is where God put me to to take the gift I've been given and make it shine.

At that church I met a man who had been sober a long time. He tried AA, didn't care for it, found this church and had been happily sober for years. And he had found a way to be useful. Ultimately, I think that is what iit is about, am I useful or not?
Jim

[FightingIrish]

I'm curious why you would need to discuss medication at an A.A. meeting?

Originally Posted by kittykat58

I appreciate all the replies here.

the other matter that has been difficult for me, and which I posted elsewhere (but I'll post here b/c I am a 12 stepper), is that for the past 3-4 yrs I've used ambien or lunesta (prescribed) for chronic insomnia. I've had insomnia for many many years, before and since I got sober. certainly worse with sobriety. at around 5 years sobriety I was sleeping only a few hours every few nights and was suicidal.

I do not abuse the medicine and do not use it to get high. I take it when I go to bed and I sleep. I still use the same amount as I did 4 years ago (5-10mgs). as much as I've tried to use other techniques for insomnia, I only have so much control over life (if any!) and sooner or later normal stresses crowd in and I am left sleepless again.

I have a family and a professional work life and sleeplessness is so debilitating that I cannot comprehend going back to that misery. I have anxiety and PTSD and use an SSRI for that.

I do have a higher power, so I do pray, and God as I understand God is the center of my life. I think in all other ways I am a stable and productive member of society.

I do feel though, that I can't talk about this at meetings and I am afraid of the "big-opinioners" who I suspect will tell me or imply I am not sober due to use of this medication. I feel like I am carrying a secret and I wonder too if that is making me feel less comfortable at meetings -- I kind of fear it won't be accepted (or at least think it won't) -- so I say nothing, and start looking for reasons to pull away from meetings.

I feel like I'm cheating and don't deserve to claim my sober date. BTW -- it's today, 21 years.

12-steppers -- am I still sober?

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by FightingIrish

I'm curious why you would need to discuss medication at an A.A. meeting?

Me too, but then again there are a lot of AA meetings where everything but AA is discussed.

[kittykat58]

wow, I am so so so grateful for these replies! I feel like I can get out of my own head after MONTHS of obsessing about this ("am I sober? am I not sober? should I go to meetings? am I cheating? do I deserve my sober date?" and on and on and on...). there is something so freeing about telling the truth and the replies I get are always so much more different and loving than I expect -- I think I project my own harsh, critical inner voice onto what I expect others to say....and others are so invariably so much more gentle and caring with me than I think they will. I am going to read these all over agin, slowly, and really take them in.

I do think it's important to help the newcomer. lately I have felt inhibited about speaking up to help newcomers b/c of the guilt I felt about using meds so I felt I was not qualified to offer anything, or I was a phony....but I just got back from a wonderful meeting where others were celebrating their anniversaries, and I claimed my own, and some newcomers talked about their struggles, and I was able to refocus my comments to help them and it felt great -- it was awesome to see them really listening, soaking up what was being said to help them, and to remember this IS our primary purpose, and how much people sharing their ESH helped me when I was first coming around...and then I come home and find all these wonderful, supportive replies...this is truly a joyous anniversary, thank you all.

[kittykat58]

Originally Posted by jimhere

Me too, but then again there are a lot of AA meetings where everything but AA is discussed.

hee ha. these are good points, too.

in answer to the question, I guess I just feel like I am supposed to be completely "drug free" to honestly be sober, but it does not appear to be altogether possible for me to do so and maintain my health and sanity.

I think I've heard a lot of purists over the years. and people do talk about drugs at meetings, or are cross-addicted.

[kittykat58]

Originally Posted by navysteve

The only question I would have is:

Do you believe God delievered you to AA?

OK, I have two:

If you buy into that, wouldn't he want you to stay to carry the message to the still sick and suffering?

I have a friend who got sober through the church, he has over 20 years, and is very happy in his life. He is a usefull member of society.

I left AA for 7 years for alot of the reasons I hear here. I was sick of the Dogma ( it still bugs me) the brain washing, the gurus, the Big Book purists who believe the Big Book is the only authority on alcoholism.

I came back because of the debt I cannot repay. Am I still brainwashed? I never was. I relaize there are things about AA that are not the program.

yes, yes, and yes. thank you.