Quit Playing God - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

RufusACanal · 02-19-2009, 04:05 PM

"So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is almost the most extreme example that could be found of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there is no way of entirely getting rid of self without Him. You may have moral and philosophical convictions galore, but you can't live up to them even though you would like to. Neither can you reduce your self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on your own power. You must have God's help.

This is the how and why of it. First of all, quit playing God yourself. It doesn't work. Next, decide that hereafter in this drama of life, God is going to be your Director. He is the Principal; you are to be His agent. He is the Father, and you are His child. Get that simple relationship straight. Most good ideas are simple and this concept is to be the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which you will pass to freedom."

Rob B · 02-19-2009, 04:21 PM

One of my favorite parts in the Big Book. It gives me exact information.
Who caused the problem=Me
What the problem is= extreme selfishness
What the penalty is=death
Who will fix the problem= God as I undertand him

24hrsAday · 02-19-2009, 04:25 PM

yep.. god as i do not understand him/her/it.. i struggle with it from time to time.. turning it over.

AW2486 · 02-19-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making.

Joe H has a good comment on this.. He said his sponsor asked him to find something positive in that statement. His answer was convincing. Anybody want to take a guess ?

jimhere · 02-19-2009, 09:20 PM

Looks like you've been listening to that set of tapes I told you about Andy. Here's your answer.

Thank God my troubles are of my own making. Thank God the unmanagaeblity of life arises from within.

I always looked at the problem as being from without. It was always them. or that job, or this money, yada yada yada.

So therefore I always looked without for the answer. If it was about that job, or this money, or them admitting they were wrong, some people would have to come back to life for me to get well. So, thank God my troubles are of my own making. No one else has to change for me to get well. All it takes is a simple change of perspective. The "New Pair of Glasses" that Chuck C. talked about.
Jim

RufusACanal · 02-20-2009, 06:54 AM

Which tapes Jim?

jimhere · 02-20-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Which tapes Jim?

Joe H. from Santa Monica, CA. Joe was a grand-sponsor of mine. In 1985, when he was three years sober he did a Big Book workshop, taking a group of people through the steps at the Salvation Army in Long Beach. Some of the best Big Book material ever, right up there with Joe & Charlie IMO.

These tapes (now cd's) are availe online. PM me and I'll give you the url.
Jim

freya · 02-20-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW2486

"So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making." Joe H has a good comment on this.. He said his sponsor asked him to find something positive in that statement. His answer was convincing. Anybody want to take a guess ?

If my problems are of my own making then I have a chance to solve them simply (not necessarily easily but simply) by changing the one thing I do have control over, myself and my perceptions, and to be happy. Whereas, if my problems are the fault of everything and everyone else in the world and if I'm waiting for everything and everyone else in the world to change in order for me to be happy, then I'm probably pretty much screwed because I can't control all of that and it's probably not gonna happen just cuz I think it should.

freya (who "borrowed" it from Clancy I.'s "Alcoholism: A Disease of Perception")

AW2486 · 02-21-2009, 05:51 AM

I really like Joe's approach to the BB.. including the chicken the pig and the frogs.

stone · 02-21-2009, 06:20 AM

Here is a link to another talk he gave Joe H. from Santa Monica, CA : The Spiritual Awakening Group in Bernardville, NJ : AA Speaker Tapes

I am liking it already. Only listened to 5 mins so far.

I would like to hear the workshop Cds too.

jimhere · 02-21-2009, 08:43 AM

Joe was an interesting man. You either loved him or you couldn't stand him, but he did help many. I always liked Joe because he wasn't afraid to talk about things in AA that many people wouldn't talk about. He told me that he went to make amends to Clancy and the Pacific Group one time for talking about them in a bad way. Clancy told him that he would listen to him when he was sober as long him (Clancy) and had helped as many people as he had. Joe told me that right then he knew that there would never be enough room in any group for his and Clancy's egos to be in the same room. Which if you knew Joe, was true. He came across as quite arrogant at times. In fact he and I clashed at times because of our egos and our like nature.

Those Salvation Army tapes were given to me by my first sponsor, who had been sponsored by Joe when he lived in L.A. I wore them out. So I consider Joe one of my teachers, especially in the last few years that he was alive after he got back from India. That talk in Bernardsville NJ was given not too long after he got back from India. There is a set of Cd's from a weekend retreat in Prescott, AZ called "How Free Do You Want To Be" that Joe and Mark H. did in 2001. I would recommend these cd's to anyone who is serious about going deep into the spiritual aspect of the program.

Love him or hate him, Joe will be missed.
Jim

AW2486 · 03-01-2009, 11:21 AM

I saw Clancy last night in his hometown Eau Claire Wisconsin.. He said some things I think Joe Hawk must have too offense too. He said the Big Book is like a cookbook. That it is not necessary to attend book study's that examine every word. He said the steps mean what they say. I wonder if he meant that this program is not that hard? Or some people make it out to be hard.

I was 20 years sober hanging in the fellowship working the steps off the wall. Drifting & Lost. I tried a Big Book study meeting; it woke me up, got me active, and was a big part of me starting to grow spiritually again.

I’m glad I was able to see Clancy. Has a great story and I laughed a lot. But the end message was, go to meetings, get a sponsor, and work the steps off the wall.

IO Storm · 03-01-2009, 11:13 PM

Thanks everone for your posts!

My problems, basically were..are of my own making. Recovery is shining the light

in my own backyard..not someone else's..I have to, to get well!

This is so difficult at times, but I must to move forward.

And Clancy is great. I have a couple of his tapes..

Tazman53 · 03-02-2009, 04:29 AM

I love Clancy, I often wonder if his ego is as big as it seems or if that is his way of functioning.

02-19-2009, 04:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
RufusACanal Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,927	Quit Playing God "So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is almost the most extreme example that could be found of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there is no way of entirely getting rid of self without Him. You may have moral and philosophical convictions galore, but you can't live up to them even though you would like to. Neither can you reduce your self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on your own power. You must have God's help. This is the how and why of it. First of all, quit playing God yourself. It doesn't work. Next, decide that hereafter in this drama of life, God is going to be your Director. He is the Principal; you are to be His agent. He is the Father, and you are His child. Get that simple relationship straight. Most good ideas are simple and this concept is to be the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which you will pass to freedom." __________________ "It is what you learn after you know it all that counts." John Wooden Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous

02-20-2009, 06:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
RufusACanal Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,927	Which tapes Jim? __________________ "It is what you learn after you know it all that counts." John Wooden Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous

03-01-2009, 11:13 PM	#13 (permalink)
IO Storm IO Storm Wheel Of Fortune Champion! Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 18,175 Blog Entries: 2	Thanks everone for your posts! My problems, basically were..are of my own making. Recovery is shining the light in my own backyard..not someone else's..I have to, to get well! This is so difficult at times, but I must to move forward. And Clancy is great. I have a couple of his tapes.. __________________ "God holds me still in the eye of the Storm"

03-02-2009, 04:29 AM	#14 (permalink)
Tazman53 Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va. Posts: 9,745	I love Clancy, I often wonder if his ego is as big as it seems or if that is his way of functioning. __________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA

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02-19-2009, 04:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Rob B Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southern New Hampshire Posts: 747 Blog Entries: 5	One of my favorite parts in the Big Book. It gives me exact information. Who caused the problem=Me What the problem is= extreme selfishness What the penalty is=death Who will fix the problem= God as I undertand him

02-19-2009, 04:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
24hrsAday Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2,740	yep.. god as i do not understand him/her/it.. i struggle with it from time to time.. turning it over.

02-19-2009, 09:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 2,392	Looks like you've been listening to that set of tapes I told you about Andy. Here's your answer. Thank God my troubles are of my own making. Thank God the unmanagaeblity of life arises from within. I always looked at the problem as being from without. It was always them. or that job, or this money, yada yada yada. So therefore I always looked without for the answer. If it was about that job, or this money, or them admitting they were wrong, some people would have to come back to life for me to get well. So, thank God my troubles are of my own making. No one else has to change for me to get well. All it takes is a simple change of perspective. The "New Pair of Glasses" that Chuck C. talked about. Jim

02-21-2009, 05:51 AM	#9 (permalink)
AW2486 Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 651	I really like Joe's approach to the BB.. including the chicken the pig and the frogs.

02-21-2009, 06:20 AM	#10 (permalink)
stone Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 18,303	Here is a link to another talk he gave Joe H. from Santa Monica, CA : The Spiritual Awakening Group in Bernardville, NJ : AA Speaker Tapes I am liking it already. Only listened to 5 mins so far. I would like to hear the workshop Cds too.

02-21-2009, 08:43 AM	#11 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 2,392	Joe was an interesting man. You either loved him or you couldn't stand him, but he did help many. I always liked Joe because he wasn't afraid to talk about things in AA that many people wouldn't talk about. He told me that he went to make amends to Clancy and the Pacific Group one time for talking about them in a bad way. Clancy told him that he would listen to him when he was sober as long him (Clancy) and had helped as many people as he had. Joe told me that right then he knew that there would never be enough room in any group for his and Clancy's egos to be in the same room. Which if you knew Joe, was true. He came across as quite arrogant at times. In fact he and I clashed at times because of our egos and our like nature. Those Salvation Army tapes were given to me by my first sponsor, who had been sponsored by Joe when he lived in L.A. I wore them out. So I consider Joe one of my teachers, especially in the last few years that he was alive after he got back from India. That talk in Bernardsville NJ was given not too long after he got back from India. There is a set of Cd's from a weekend retreat in Prescott, AZ called "How Free Do You Want To Be" that Joe and Mark H. did in 2001. I would recommend these cd's to anyone who is serious about going deep into the spiritual aspect of the program. Love him or hate him, Joe will be missed. Jim

03-01-2009, 11:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
AW2486 Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 651	I saw Clancy last night in his hometown Eau Claire Wisconsin.. He said some things I think Joe Hawk must have too offense too. He said the Big Book is like a cookbook. That it is not necessary to attend book study's that examine every word. He said the steps mean what they say. I wonder if he meant that this program is not that hard? Or some people make it out to be hard. I was 20 years sober hanging in the fellowship working the steps off the wall. Drifting & Lost. I tried a Big Book study meeting; it woke me up, got me active, and was a big part of me starting to grow spiritually again. I’m glad I was able to see Clancy. Has a great story and I laughed a lot. But the end message was, go to meetings, get a sponsor, and work the steps off the wall.

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