fraankie

the only requirement for aa is to stop drinking
and
you have a seat

i was perplexed by the higher power, God
but
take your time
there's plenty to do while you sort that out
meetings, sponsor, big book, service
eventually
my higher power was the doorknob to a meeting
then my home group
so
i went thru a lot of changes

spirituality will come in time
in the meantime
enjoy sobriety

fraankie

DoubleBarrel

In my humble opinion, much of AA has the trappings of an earlier time, and as such, elements of sexism, religion, and traditionalism that some find odd.

I am atheist in the purist sense, i.e. I don't have a belief in God. Just like I don't believe in Santa.

But there are many things greater than myself. Humankind, the world, society, nature. These are my higher power if you will.

Don't overthink it. You want to stay sober, there are people there who have done what you are trying to do. Some of them can probably help you. That's it.

CousinA

I was at a meeting the last week where someone spoke about insanity doing the same thing and expecting different results. That's the Einstein definition. He's one of my heroes. Well, I don't really do heroes but whatevs. Here's one of my favorite Albert quotes:

"Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble."

I'm an atheist, or agnostic or more likely an apatheist - I no longer care if there are gods or not. My higher power is the spirit that humbles me. It first manifested in my life the day I no longer had to drink which was incomprehensible to me the day before. It continues to do so today. The 10th Step Promises say it better than I ever can.

-allan

KateL

I do have some spirituality but I mostly think for myself. I am not egotistical but believe I must have a hand in keeping myself well and making amends. I am a person, not a robot. But that is just me. I also find that you cannot always join in or even try to understand certain things when people use AA speak on forums. It makes me feel like it is a them and us situation.

keithj

I suppose it depends on what the original poster meant by 'do AA'. There are tons of people, some of them successfully sober and happy, that are AA members and attend meetings, engage in service, etc. without any belief in a power greater than themselves.

If 'do AA' means the program of recovery in AA (how we recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body), then I see no way of doing it without coming to believe in something greater than myself. And I say this as a guy who walked into AA as a lifelong staunch atheist who thought the idea of a higher power was a crutch for weak-minded sheep. But I was thoroughly convinced of Step 1, and I met the 'willingness to believe in something' requirement of Step 2.

AA is what it is. I would have been incredibly short changed in my life had I simply walked into the rooms and hung out with the sober support group offered in AA without becoming spiritually awoken as the result of the 12 Steps.

PaperDolls

This is what I do too. Almost exactly.
I share it in meetings too because it's important.
If there are any newcomers that felt the same way I did, I want them to hear that you can come up with your own HP.



If anyone has a problem with my HP I'm ok with it. I understand it, I used to have a problem with their HP. I think I spent lots of time focusing on not liking their HP (or God) so I didn't have to focus on my own problems.....and try to come up with something that worked for me.

paulokes

The two are not mutually exclusive

It's all about self-honesty and in my experience most of us think we have more of that than we do. Unlocking it all is a tricky business, takes time and persistence.

But that's why walking a spiritual path leads to more freedom not less. Freedom from Self...not freedom from being a 'bad person', like some kind of best behaviour promise but freedom from being a confused, bewildered one that's what I find

P

Music

Interesting quote from the OP. There are two "cant's" in the quote. I used to say can't but what I really meant was won't. If a person really wants to get better as the OP stated, the idea of a higher power might just be worth giving a try.

Also, he says he "made himself a drinker, not God". True enough, but there's a stark difference between a drinker and an alcoholic. Seems to me if I take responsibility for being a drinker, and don't need a higher power, I should be able to figure out a way to not drink. As is stated in the Big Book, over my drinking career I lost the power of choice when it came to drinking. Until I was able to stop drinking, ask for help from my higher power who I choose to call God, and do some step work I didn't realize that I really do have a choice as to whether to drink or not. One of the posters mentioned GOD as being called "group of drunks" and I guess that's valid until one of the group of drunks goes back out and gets hammered. I definitely believe God does talk to me from behind a coffee cup, but I don't put my trust and faith in coffee cups or people. Sometimes as in my case, I decided to believe in a higher power just because my sponsor believed....blind faith. After all, what can it hurt other than my ego?

bar10

you say you cannot commit to god or a higher power, but are you not doing just that by asking for help in this forum?

jdooner

I pushed back hard...called it a cult. Ran to Rational recovery and saw that perspective, which Triphey has an agenda of his own. This process really hurt me. I was on uneven ground in an earthquake. What I learned is like most things the problem and the answer was me.

My all of nothing led me to believe I needed to be 100% AA chanting the message and wearing the sweatshirts. When I saw what that looked like I had a negative visceral reaction and ran as fast I could to RR - disparaging AA along the way. This led me to thinking I could drink again. The problem was not the program though and here is my point. I thought I had to embody 100% of the program and the Little Book RR's version of the BB is written this way. I have learned you don't.

You have to believe there is something bigger than yourself. Don't get stuck in definitions and the black and white, as I did. Your sobriety can be your higher power. Exercise can be your higher power. For me energy is mine.

You don't have to work the steps to be in AA, although I find more value in the steps than anything else the program has to offer.

mick3580

This was my experience too.

soberhal9

Do you guys pray? I know an atheist in AA who prays. The power of prayer has helped me.

TigerLili

There is an appendix in the book which talks about a higher power being an 'untapped inner resource' within the individual. There are references throughout the book to God being within the individual. There is no requirement to believe in a God or higher power that is external to the individual.

I believe it's both within me and external to me. There is a divine energy that sets the universe in motion and keeps it that way. That divine energy is also contained in everything in creation, even me. My job is to clear away the debris that prevents me from connecting with my own 'untapped inner resource'.

Kensho

Many people seem to use the group as a collective power greater than themselves. It doesn’t have to be religious or supernatural. For some people it is, for others, not.

EDIT: I just realized that I am only repeating what others have already said . . .

CousinA

Not sitting down, standing up or on my knees to any deity. I don't believe there is one to hear or act on them. I believe that I need hear and act on them. I've been known to say or think any number of what we call prayers; serenity, some version of prayers in the literature.

I mediate. A lot. My spiritual practice is AA and secular buhddist. It has and continues to help me for going on 32+ years now.

-allan

Music

So, what I'm seeing here is that all you believe in is you! I felt that same way when I came to AA and the answer I got was this. "How's playing god working for you so far?" I had to admit it wasn't working all that well. I used GOD...Group Of Drunks for a while until people went back out and started drinking again. AA gives us the freedom to pick a higher power that works for us. One that helps us not drink long enough to realize there's some good things that can happen when sober. Hell, maybe your life isn't as screwed up as mine was when I came to AA, I don't know, but one thing I did know and still know is that I can't do this thing by myself. I need the help of some kind of higher power who might just work through other people so I don't have to die drunk. Today I believe the only way I can fail is to stop trying. I'm sober almost 37 years and even now when I watch football and see a nice cold beer my mouth waters. Then I close my eyes and remember the very first time I asked my higher power (who today I choose to call God) for help and He's never let me down. I'm the only one who can let me down!

jdooner

You don't have to get 100% of it all at once. I have not seen any rejection in AA. I have seen some misguided members but only requirement is desire to stop, so you qualify. Over time I bet you will get the rest and that does not mean God.

Jeni26

I wasn't sure what I believed in when I started in AA. I did have a God of sorts I guess because when I was drinking I would barter with Him...'please get me out of this'...'please don't let me get caught'...'if I survive this I will never drink again I promise!'... I'm not sure who I thought I was talking to, and I definitely didn't have any religious beliefs.

When it came to thinking of a Higher Power, for a long time I used my Grandparents who had died some years earlier. They were such a strong force for good in my life, their legacy of positivity and love had stayed with me always, even if it had been buried somewhere deep.

So when I prayed, I prayed to my Nan and all that she stood for. It worked so well and I never had any doubts that she was somewhere listening and guiding me.

Over time this has changed, and I'm now comfortable with the word God. I have no image of what He looks like, but he listens and looks out for me. He accepts me and loves me no matter how badly I mess up, and that gives me a sense of security that has always been lacking in my life. It's ok to just be me now.

Mentium

I have been posting in the newcomers forum for a while but as I am an AA attendee I think I will start posting here too!

Foreverdecember - I am an atheist who attends AA. I live in England mind you and the UK is generally rather less focused on what one might term 'mainstream' religion in AA from what I have seen and read. You experience might I guess depend on where you live (it doesn't say on your avatar).

I'm still relatively new - since last September, but what I get primarily from AA is the fellowship of others who know exactly where I have been and what I have gone through. The Steps to me look a lot like a self help/therapy programme dealing with some of the stuff that made me a sucker for alcohol as a 'cure' for my ills. The higher power? Well If I have one at all it is the AA groups of people I am getting to know. Between them they have quit drinking successfully - and I have not on my own. So they have more power collectively than I do!

Tomorrow I am going on a hike in the mountain of the Lake District here in the north of England where I live. Five of us - all AA members are going and I have no doubt that it will indeed be a powerful day.

Lily

AA 27 yrs. 24 years not having a real relationship w/ God, I believe I was pretending...... couldn't stay sober.

The last 3 since I quit pretending, and a real relationship w/ God, sobriety and real recovery for me.

When I am all alone is it God I am pleasing or men?

God.