Sponsorship & Big Book.. How Soon?

[AW2486]

For the second time in 3 months I have a sponsee cut off all contact after few times getting together to read the Big Book.

First guy was my cousin I was a bit evangelical (enthusiastic) with him.
So taking what I learned from that.
The second guy I was more laid back and he said he enjoyed it and looked forward to the next time. Now he won’t answer the phone.

I talked with two people I respect about it.

My Sponsor … 26yrs …. Took a real laid back approach with me. I was he first sponsee so he was learning as he did it. He said, lay back awhile, let them get comfortable with the fellowship and then offer the book.

My Mother … AODA counselor between 1973-2000 .. She said the same thing my sponsor said. Give them as much time as they need before bringing out the book. She said she learned in counselor training that the brain takes along time to detox, sometimes months.

I don’t feel I’m coming across as a big book thumper with a big evangelic stick. Maybe I am and I just don’t see it. Both of them I talked about the BB approach before we started. And they both agreed to that approach.

Two rejections in a short span now. Guess I’m looking for answers.

When is the right time to pull out the Big Book?

Any ESH, suggestions or constructive criticism is most welcome.

Thanks for reading..

Andy

[PaulN]

It's hard when you think you're working with someone who really wants it, then poof ... their gone. Certainly have had my share too.

Maybe your sponsor & mom have a point, but I don't know. To me, Chapter 7 has all the answers as to how & when though.

I've read enough of you in the short time I've been here, to know your genuine Andy ... so don't get down on yourself.

I see it like this, you had the opportunity to plant some seeds. Find some comfort in that. You know how this stuff works ... about the time you find yourself questioning or wondering, God brings another opportunity.

Hang in my friend and don't get down. Give Chapter 7 a re-read when you have a chance. If you're anything like me, it'll help get your mind & heart centered again and ready for that next opportunity.

[serenityqueen]

Boy, us alcoholics and addicts sure do like to make everything about us, don't we? lol

Why would you necessarily think it was something to do with you and the Big Book? My very first thought was that these two people relapsed and are afraid to face you or even speak to you. How can I say this? Because I did it myself so many times over the years.

For me, the Big Book was so confusing that about the only thing that made any sense to me was some of the strories in the back. I remember thinking that someone needed to rewrite this thing so it was more in today's wording. Now, I like to think of it this way, it hasn't been rewritten because obviously it works just the way it is, and secondly, having to reread it to understand it really lets it sink in for me.

Not meaning to hijack your thread, but I really don't think it's all about you.

Hugs,
Judy

[sugErspun]

The book has directions on when to bring said book out...working with others.

[Sugah]

I prefer to get them started when they're still remorseful.

In half a dozen years, I've seen half a dozen get multiple years sober. Take that to the second power, and I've probably gotten started with that many more. I won't even tell you how many asked and changed their minds after they found out it being a sponsee involved work.

When they get the gift of desperation, they'll be back. Don't take it personally.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[gravity]

I met my sponsor about 6 hours after I sobered up.
We talked for a couple of hours.
He asked me to read The Doctors Opinion and Bill's story.
We agreed to go to a meeting the next night.

His approach was kind of laid-back. He made it clear that I would have to do all the work, he would guide me through the book and the steps, based on his experience.

I think the bottom line was either I wanted it or I didn't.

[Freedom1990]

Don't take it personally. We're infamous for that sort of thing! :ghug

[bballdad]

Andy,don`t think it is you.I have had many guys like that.Then someone comes along and you can`t run him off with a stick.I like to get them while they are still hurting and as Sugah said,remorseful.I have found the longer we wait,the less chance they have of doing the work the Book wants us to do.
I usually give them a call or two and if they don`t answer,I back off and let nature run it`s course because we can`t drag them thru the steps.The thing is you set aside your time to help them and they don`t show.If they show up now or later maybe a word or two about that not happening again would help.

[Tazman53]

Andy some sage advice so far, my first sponsee lived up to the name pigeon and flew the coop, I have no idea if he is still sober or not..... it shook me, like you I was convinced I had done nothing wrong, my sponsor asked me "Did you drink over it?" He told me in that case as long as I was following what the BB said I had done no harm and as others said........... I planted a seed.

My sponsee's I do like my sponsor did with me, I let them know it is their program, not mine, that I am not thier boss, but a guide. My second sponsee took all the steps and is coming upon 2 years now and is really a shining example of the miracle of AA, my other 2 are dragging thier feet on Step 4, they have 8 & 9 months and are doing pretty darn good.

I am not pushing them on 4, I occasionally remind them and share my ES&H on it and step 5. I let them know that when they are ready to move forward I will be there.

I know the last thing one could do with this alcoholic was push me and I have a strong feeling most others are the same way. Tell me there are rules or dead lines and I am out of there!!!

I count myself very fortunant as far as sponsee success goes, but I have found it is not me that keeps them sober, it is them finding a Higher Power, if they wish to find one then I am willing to help them by sharing the path I took to find my........ the BB & the steps.

Andy do not sweat it, keep in mind what my sponosr told me, the only person that can get me drunk is me and the only person that can keep me sober is me, my sobriety is all on me, others sobriety is all on them, the only thing I can do to help is to share my ES&H, that is it.

You put the spiritual tool kit that worked for you at thier feet, it is up to them to pick it up

[navysteve]

Andy,
remember that Bill worked with many before meeting Dr Bob. The main point is to be there and to make sure what we are offering is alligned with the Big Book. There is no one size fits all time schedule into sobriety. Some people are on fire from the get go, but the Big Book even cautions us in Working With Others about letting the new man start so soon (page 95). It is a judgement call you have to make as you carry the message. Pray about it and keep on the firing line of life.

[jada311]

" When the student is ready the teacher will appear" Look, continuous sobriety and personal spiritual growth should be enough to tell you that you aren't the weak link in these sponsees game plan. When I got to AA and was willing to do the work My sponsor said we were already late. Thank God for that!!! My personal track record made it quite evident that the longer I waited to get into the solution outline in the book the sooner my own ideas would surface. I would develop my own plan to recover, which never worked out too well. This program isn't for people who need it it is for people who want it and people who do the work. I have had guys stop calling before and I have guys that are on fire. Pain can be an excellent motivator. Once these guys get enough of it the willingness flows over. Don't be so hard on yourself.

[Music]

Pull out the Big Book ASAP and get them to reading. If I wait until they're ready to read, it may never happen, and responsibility is to carry the message the way I carry the message, not the way they want to hear it. If a person doesn't want to call back, or get together when the offer is made, it's not my business to force the issue.

[jimhere]

I agree with Music. Why wait? No need to push or prod them, but lay it out to them. I do that, and after that, the ball is in their court, they can take it leave it. When we get to inventory, they get a week.

Recently, one guy dropped me because he thought a week was not enough time. Oh well, just made room for the next guy. I don't have time to mess with anyone who wants to play around with this deal.

[Jfanagle]

My sponsor handed me a Big Book, before he was my sponsor and before I went to my first meeting. I read it as I drank! I still have that book and it has all the "rings" that my sweating whiskey glass left on its cover when I would close it and put the glass on top of the book.

I went to a few meetings, walked away, and then returned to AA 5 years later and called my sponsor Bill and told him I was ready. That "return" and my sobriety started just about 10 years ago. If I hadn't been given the book I would not have had anything to "think about" for those 5 years before I WAS READY.

My point is that giving someone the Big Book can't hurt and as has been said, when the individual is really ready to get sober they will reach out and find the sponsor that they need.

I echo the previous comments; it isn't about our efforts as a sponsor, but rather about when the drunk is ready to become a recovering alcoholic.

Jon

[RufusACanal]

I give each man a copy immediately; every answer is in the Book.

"The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism."

"We think few, to whom this book will appeal, can stay dry anything like a year. Some will be drunk the day after making their resolutions; most of them within a few weeks."

"Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. That means we have written a book which we believe to be spiritual as well as moral. And it means, of course, that we are going to talk about God."

"In this book you read again and again that faith did for us what we could not do for ourselves."

[lizw]

Originally Posted by AW2486

My Mother … AODA counselor between 1973-2000 .. She said the same thing my sponsor said. Give them as much time as they need before bringing out the book. She said she learned in counselor training that the brain takes along time to detox, sometimes months.

No offense intended for your mother but it is a good thing the 12 steps actually require virtually no or little thought. Mostly they require us to take action. And when a newcomer bails, it is usually because they don't want to take the required action.

[BP44]

I begin as soon as they are willing to sit across the table with me. The key word is willing. Over the past year I had 6 men ask me to sponsor them. Only two of them are still with me doing the work. One was gone the day after he asked me to sponsor him. Two only called a couple of times and never were willing to meet. A fourth guy sat down with me for about 3 months, just long enough to get a paper signed for work and the instructions for inventory, then he was gone with the wind. The last two are coming up on 9 months. I've heard a 5th step from one and the other is almost complete with his inventory. With all of them I made clear in the beginning that we would begin on the title page and move foreward from there if they were willing. They surrender to me by showing up at the first meeting. From that point on, they surrender to the process, or they don't. I make it clear that if they don't stay, I will not lose sleep, I'll find another alcoholic to work with. I make clear that we will meet regularly which for me is weekly until we get to inventory. After I give instructions on inventory we don't have a reason to meet until it's done and ready to be 5th stepped. The bottom line is that the Big Book of Alcoholic's Anonymous is the only manual I know of to utilize to recover from alcoholism. It was the approach I was shown and the only approach I use. It is not a self help book. We will start at the title page and do everything it asks us to do. When it asks us to write, we'll write. When it asks us to pray we'll pray. When it asks us to read what we wrote, we'll read what we wrote. It really is that simple.

[AW2486]

Thanks everybody for your responses. I did see the second guy at a meeting this morning. Said he had a ruff couple of weeks, work - money - GF problems.. ect He did apologize for not contacting me Tuesday.

Told him I was glad to see him and my phone is always on and left it at that. If he calls, I think he knows what I'm going to suggest.

Andy

[jimhere]

There was supposed to be a guy showing up at my house this morning. He didn't show and didn't call.

Last week he showed up, but without having done the work I'd given him to do, which is to read the first eight pages of Bill's Story and set aside the differences to identify with how Bill thought, felt, and drank. When I asked why he did not do that he said he'd already read Bill's Story several times (this guy is two years sober). I told him that did not make any difference tome because it is not about what he thinks he knows and that we can't move on past this point until he does what is in front of him. Then I sent him home to do that and come back today.

At this point I think I will have to drop him. I'm not real interested in why someone can't do this and sure don't have time to mess with the guy if he doesn't even care enough about his own recovery to show up and participate in it.

[BP44]

Jim, my experience so far has been that I don't have to drop them. Those that don't want to follow the suggestions usually seek an easier softer way. One of my guys that just finished his 5th step told me at our first sit down that he had already done a fourth and 5th step with his previous sponsor. I said, "well that's great, but here's the thing, you went out and drank for a year after that" I said, " something has been missed and if we don't find it, you're gonna die, or maybe not, you may live just like you are right now for a long time." "I suggest we start at the title page" I didn't expect him to stay, but he did. He didn't want to die an ugly death, nor live an ugly life. He was truly out of options and trusted that I had found the way out. My other protoge has just completed inventory after great struggle. We have an appointment. I am grateful for what these men give me everday. It is priceless.

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by BP44

Jim, my experience so far has been that I don't have to drop them. Those that don't want to follow the suggestions usually seek an easier softer way. One of my guys that just finished his 5th step told me at our first sit down that he had already done a fourth and 5th step with his previous sponsor. I said, "well that's great, but here's the thing, you went out and drank for a year after that" I said, " something has been missed and if we don't find it, you're gonna die, or maybe not, you may live just like you are right now for a long time." "I suggest we start at the title page" I didn't expect him to stay, but he did. He didn't want to die an ugly death, nor live an ugly life. He was truly out of options and trusted that I had found the way out. My other protoge has just completed inventory after great struggle. We have an appointment. I am grateful for what these men give me everday. It is priceless.

Well, I've been doing this a long time and what you say for the most part is true. But I find it a waste of time and energy to work with someone who can't or won't do the work.

Flakiness and tardiness are not acceptable to me. That guy called me yesterday at about noon (he was supposed to be here at eight) and said his alarm didn't go off. This was after failing to do what I put in front of him last week. I told him he gets one more chance. In the past I have dropped guys for beiing flakes or for not doing the work. How do I drop them? I've found the direct way the best way. I just tell them that I am not their sponsor anymore.