Court ordered aa

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Just curious

How many on here were court ordered

How many got into AA due to family or their job

How many got here cause, they knew they needed AA

Was at a speaker AA meeting last night, the lady that spoke, seemed to be a high bottom drunk. She did go onto say, she did 30 days in rehab.

I came into AA one step ahead of being ordered to which turned out to be a blessing in disguise

[dgillz]

In some areas around here, they refuse to sign court cards. The person was ordered to go to AA, the court did not order the AA group to do anything.

Also in certain states - CA and NY for sure - the court cannot order you to AA. AA has been ruled "religious" and ordering someone to go to AA is a violation of their right to practice religion as they see fit.

[JJisFit4AA]

I brought my mom to AA when I was 17, I came myself when I was 31...then again when I was 35, now that I'm 46 I am praying it sticks, I think it will. I had to let it get just bad enough....Denial is not a river

[CAPTAINZING2000]

We've never refused to sign the papers of any one court ordered here

[Isaiah]

I am court ordered to go.

If that order was dropped tomorrow I'd still go just as much as I do already. AA grew on me, but I wouldn't have gotten to that point if it wasn't for the legal requirement.

[deezaldog]

I wonder how AA became labeled a religous group? Where I live there are a number of agnostic AA mtgs but AA was not formed as a religous organization. Bill & Bob had many discussions and consideration about that issue.
I was not court ordered or rehab. sent, I was mentally & physically ill and had not where else to go. AA is saving my life. And for that I am gratefull. :ghug

[doorknob]

From Wiki:

Court rulings

Since 1996, courts across the United States, in a number of different cases, have ruled that inmates, parolees, and probationers cannot be ordered to attend AA. Though AA itself was not deemed to be a religion, it was found to contain enough religious components (spirituality, god, prayer and proselytism) to make such coercion a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the constitution. In September 2007, United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that a parole office can be sued for ordering a parolee to attend Alcoholics Anonymous.

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by deezaldog

I wonder how AA became labeled a religous group? Where I live there are a number of agnostic AA mtgs but AA was not formed as a religious organization. Bill & Bob had many discussions and consideration about that issue.

Again this has been ruled by state courts, and appeals courts - most notably the super-liberal 9th court of appeals - not the US Supreme court.

In Alabama they still order AA regularly. In CA they order "Alcoholism counseling" and you can choose AA, SMART, a private counselor, etc., although AA outnumbers the rest of the list by about 200:1.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

It appears to me, they mandate the alcohol counseling more then AA.

Hits the wallet a lot harder at $75.00 to a 100.00 a month

[doorknob]

In my experience, the court mandates chemical dependency treatment, which in turn requires AA attendance.

[stone]

Originally Posted by deezaldog

I wonder how AA became labeled a religous group? Where I live there are a number of agnostic AA mtgs but AA was not formed as a religous organization. Bill & Bob had many discussions and consideration about that issue.

Perhaps it is the over 400 references to God as Creator, Maker, Father of Light, Heavenly Father, and God in the Big Book?

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by doorknob

In my experience, the court mandates chemical dependency treatment, which in turn requires AA attendance.

My experience was 10 years ago, and I never got treatment, just AA meetings. I never did drugs so that may make a difference.

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by stone

Perhaps it is the over 400 references to God as Creator, Maker, Father of Light, Heavenly Father, and God in the Big Book?

Just to set the record straight:

God - 136 references (this includes words such as "godly")
Creator - 12
Maker - 2
Heavenly Father - ZERO
Father of Light - 1
Christ - 1

My source is here: Big Book Search Form

I only searched the 164 pages known as the program, not the personal stories section, which of course changes depending on edition.

In AA God is pretty universally known to be "as you understand him". They certainly do not give me this leeway to define God when practice my religion by going to church (which by the way I rarely do anymore).

For these reasons, I personally consider AA to be about the most inclusive organization I have ever been involved with.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

that escaped the use of the word Christ
Where is that located in the Big Book?

Maybe, I need to get it out and reread it word for word again

[gravity]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000

that escaped the use of the word Christ
Where is that located in the Big Book?

Bill's Story, Page 11.

To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching-most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.

BB quote from the First Edition of the BB.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

The program is still not that of a denomination

even though, many groups close with lord's prayer

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000

We've never refused to sign the papers of any one court ordered here

That is a group conscience issue IMHO. We have voted on it in my home group and opted to continue doing it. There is some serious resentment between certain AAers and the court system trying to "piggyback" on AA's program. These are the ones that vote not to sign cards.

[stone]

Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!

It is in Dr Bob's nightmare.

I know that AA does say to use your own concept of God but the BB is written using clearly Christian language when referring to God.

Even 136 references to God is a lot for a non religious book, I feel.

[stone]

To me the program is spiritual not religious, I am just saying I can understand people thinking it was religious.

[nocoincidence56]

WHATEVER SHIPWRECK GETS YOU HERE..........

[jimhere]

Several groups here will not sign attendance slips. In one group's format it says "Because we are not affiliated with the judicial system and wish to be a part of your recovery rather than your punishment, we do not sign court cards. However, you are welcome to stay for the meeting."

One group signs the cards at the beginning of the meeting. They pass a basket at the beginning of the meeting and make a statement saying that court slips are not connected to our 7th Tradition. This group has a break midway through its meeting and I noticed that the crowd sure thins out after the break.

Actually court slips are a break with tradition in a few ways. Signing slips is a break with the Third tradition in the sense that the attendee is there for more than a desire to stop drinking. AA meeting attendance should be entirely voluntary and by forcing someone to sit through a meeting they probably don't want to be at, we are in a sense holding them hostage by making them sit through a meeting to get their slip signed.

And, by signing slips we imply affiliation with the courts or the treatment center that sent the person to us, thus breaking with The Sixth Tradition.
Jim

[deezaldog]

Doorknob, Interesting bit of info. But, In the world of academics, wiki is not considered a valid souce of information.

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by deezaldog

Doorknob, Interesting bit of info. But, In the world of academics, wiki is not considered a valid souce of information.

LOL, was just lookin' for a quick summary... but to me it's a no brainer. If it walks like a ...

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I'm not sure how many people it helps by being court ordered but, you never know

Sad, that your groups isn't more receptive to someone being court ordered to a meeting

That's my take on it.

They need help for what ever reason they came thru the door

Makes me realize why, we don't get more people to stay around in AA

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by deezaldog

Doorknob, Interesting bit of info. But, In the world of academics, wiki is not considered a valid source of information.

This is because academia cannot control what gets written, IMHO. If you find a wiki article that is well written, footnoted, etc., I think its all good (which is not to say its all true).

Who reviews the articles that "academia" has blessed? Other academians. This says a lot, like have wall street execs overlook and regulate wall street.