Court ordered aa

[tiburon88]

Captain, I use to think driving was my right. I drove repeatedly with no license, no insurance ect.... Finally I realized that every time I was pulled over I would be going to jail. I gave up driving. but not drinking and moved to the city. I am proud to say that I have not drove since 2004. It was a matter a time before I injured someone driving drunk.


tib

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Had a buddy like that. he got popped messed around and didn't try and get his lic. back cause, he wasn't going to quit drinking.

When, he decided to go to AA years later, he really had to go thru the hoops to get them back

No doubt in my mind there are people that go out once or twice a year and use bad judgment and can get a DUI. However, if, you do get one and get a second DUI, you really shouldn't drive again for a long time.

I thank God all the time, I didn't kill some innocent person while driving

[jada311]

Jim,
Before we go any further let me just say that i appreciate the conversation very much. Usually at the meetings you don't get much discussion on traditions, particularly in my age group. That being said i still have to disagree with you, but not completely on everything you had to say concerning the hodge podge of aa and treatment center jargon that pollutes the meetings. The only reason I take the time to learn the traditions so thoroughly is the responsibility to my group as GSR. A group that was subsequently formed out of a small resentment of meeting being so toxic in my area.
Last year at the GSR nepa conference one of the workshops i attended ended up being based upon signing slips in aa. after much debate it was concluded that it did not violate traditions. I appreciate the fact that you recognize that i am trying not to put my opinions here just facts, though it is evident perception of the language changes between you and i. Nonetheless, I examined the long form and i still disagree. Directly after the part that you quoted is one sentence. " we shall bind ourselves to noone".
By signing a slip we are not binding ourselves or aa to anyone. If we had binded ourselves every group would have to sign that slip rather than go by the discretion of the group. But they do not have to sign if they don't want to. It is still only cooperation we have absolutely no obligation to sign a paper.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

We just make the person stay for the meeting to get their paper's signed.

I've heard of many a person, go in and have their paper signed and walk back out before the meeting even took place.

Wonder how many court AA attendance paper's have been signed in a bar???

[jada311]

around my way if the group decides to sign papers they are usually signed at the end, but papers being signed in the bar was exactly my point earlier. the individual obviously has some intent on being there to even get it signed at the meeting.

[Tazman53]

In my area I don't think folks get court ordered to AA, I thought they did for a while and then started to look at the slips I was signing and talking more to those asking to get them signed.

I kind of laugh because the court orders these folks into different programs and in some cases counseling and the programs and counselors send the folks to AA as part of thier program/counseling.

Signing these papers has never been an issue in my area, we just do it. I know one guy who is very thankful he was made to come to AA by his treatment folks, he has over 2 years sober and loves AA. He shared that at first he hated it!!!! He said he really hated what he viewed as a religous program, but was thankful that with time he came to see that it was just what it said it was, a spiritual program and not a religous one.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

The poll took me by surprise, I'd of never guessed there to be that many that, came into AA on their own.

I know, it's a small portion of the people on here though.

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by jada311

Jim,
Before we go any further let me just say that i appreciate the conversation very much. Usually at the meetings you don't get much discussion on traditions, particularly in my age group. That being said i still have to disagree with you, but not completely on everything you had to say concerning the hodge podge of aa and treatment center jargon that pollutes the meetings. The only reason I take the time to learn the traditions so thoroughly is the responsibility to my group as GSR. A group that was subsequently formed out of a small resentment of meeting being so toxic in my area.
Last year at the GSR nepa conference one of the workshops i attended ended up being based upon signing slips in aa. after much debate it was concluded that it did not violate traditions. I appreciate the fact that you recognize that i am trying not to put my opinions here just facts, though it is evident perception of the language changes between you and i. Nonetheless, I examined the long form and i still disagree. Directly after the part that you quoted is one sentence. " we shall bind ourselves to noone".
By signing a slip we are not binding ourselves or aa to anyone. If we had binded ourselves every group would have to sign that slip rather than go by the discretion of the group. But they do not have to sign if they don't want to. It is still only cooperation we have absolutely no obligation to sign a paper.

Once again, I can see your point of view. But I guess we'll just have to agree that we disagree.

About holding slips to the end of the meeting. That is where I think we do definitely cross a line. As I said forcing someone to sit through a meeting to get their slip signed doesn't line up with any of our traditions. If we are going to sign slips, we should do it at the beginning of the meeting so that whoever doesn't want to stat doesn't have to.

Discussing traditions is a good thing. Usually all I ever see on this board is the throwing around of the much misunderstood short form of Tradition Three.
Jim

[Zencat]

Here's an article called: Cooperating with Court, D.W.I. and Similar Programs (or view as a pdf for those without FireFox: www.aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/mg-05_coopwithcourt.pdf
From: A.A. ® Guidelines from G.S.O., Box 459, Grand Central Station, New York, NY 10163

"WHEN AND WHY A.A. BEGAN
COOPERATING WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES

In 1942, members from San Francisco brought the first A.A. meet-
ing into San Quentin Prison at the request of Warden Clinton T.
Duffy. This example led to A.A.’s cooperation with court systems,
including direct communications with judges and parole and proba-
tion officials. The sole purpose of this Twelfth Step work, then and
now, was to carry A.A.’s message to the still-suffering alcoholic. To
fulfill that purpose, A.A.s have learned how to share A.A. informa-
tion within court systems."

"Some A.A. members find it difficult to accept this “outside” policy in
light of our Third Tradition, “The only requirement for A.A. member-
ship is a desire to stop drinking.” Perhaps it’s helpful to remember
that our Traditions apply to us, and aren’t affected by the regula-
tions established by outside institutions—we cooperate without affil-
iating. By adhering to all Twelve Traditions, many groups welcome
each newcomer regardless of how they got to the meeting."

"Yet, in a real sense, every A.A. member is at first “sentenced” to
A.A., either by their employer, family, friends, doctor, or by their own
inner suffering. In A.A., we are not concerned about who or what
first sends the alcoholic to us. Our responsibility is to show A.A. as a
way of life, so that all newcomers who need it might want it"

The whole document is a good read .

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000

Wonder how many court AA attendance paper's have been signed in a bar???

I know of at least 3. 10 years ago I got a DUI and had to go to AA but was not ready for the message. Me and 2 drinking buddies were all going thru DUI court at the same time. We signed each others' slips at a bar.

[dgillz]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000

The poll took me by surprise, I'd of never guessed there to be that many that, came into AA on their own.

I answered that I came on my own, but the whole truth is a bit more complex. 10 years ago I got a DUI and had to go to AA, but I was not ready. I did what I had to do for the judge, but I could not tell you anything about AA after I was done. I took exactly one lesson away from my DUI experience - take a cab home from the bar.

7 years and countless drinks later, I hauled my sorry ass to an AA meeting without the legal system encouraging me. I was ready for the AA message by then.

Does anyone else fall into a similar category?

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by jimhere

As I said forcing someone to sit through a meeting to get their slip signed doesn't line up with any of our traditions. If we are going to sign slips, we should do it at the beginning of the meeting so that whoever doesn't want to stat doesn't have to.

Jim

You just never know though who a meeting might help!! As I said, in the reply above, I'd of guessed more people either were court ordered or, job or family pressured into AA.


As mentioned, one DUI doesn't make an alocholic. But, you go blowing twice the legal amount, you were stupid or, you probably do have a drinking problem.

My son's in Afghanistan right now. He's got to go to the state sec. to see about getting his lic. reinstated. He got a DUI cause, he'd pulled off to the side of the road and was given an transporation and consumption ticket. The states attorney tossed in a DUI. He was ordered to go to Alcohol classes. After a few drunk tricks of coming home and passing out, I made him go to AA a few times with me.

I'll do what ever I can to stop him from drinking and driving. I'll turn him in myself if, he's going to be doing that.

[jada311]

Jim,
I agree to disagree. Although, I agree that slips should just be signed at the beginning. That would weed out the ones who want to stay from the ones that want to go. Hey captain, looks like this thread really opened a can of worms. Good stuff.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I'll agree, it's better to get into AA on your own.

I was greasy and sleazy and one step ahead of the law.
Lucky a light went off and I stayed around after being thru with the courts.

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by Isaiah

My first few months of AA were just me sharing quick, sometimes made-up stories about my drinking, and false compliments to AA for turning my life around.

Isaiah, I'm curious as to the motivation for doing this...

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Isaiah, I'm curious as to the motivation for doing this...

Cause, we're the biggest cons around

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by CAPTAINZING2000

Cause, we're the biggest cons around

I dunno, Zing... I'm not a very good bullshitter, mostly because I don't like to do it. I much prefer to be a straight shooter, even if it means I might not be accepted. I did lie to my treatment counselor while I was on probation, but I did not like it. I really liked and respected her (had a crush on her too, lol), and it hurt to not be able to be honest with her. But, she was obligated to report any substance use to the probation department, which would have gotten me thrown in jail. I'd actually like to give her a call and come clean, and let her know how I'm doing.

[PaulN]

I'm going to do my best to not get windy.

I know a man who was court ordered to AA for 6 months. He celebrated 30 years of sobriety last March.

I've read the comments from AA's around our 12 traditions and am pleased to see or read that dialog. I myself don't talk about them enough and how important they are or the price that was paid in creating them.

The friend I spoke of who was court ordered, it was in the middle of corn & soybeans here in Illinois. In a county of only 40,000. The largest town in the county, having a population of just over 5000, which happens to also be the county seat.

In the early to mid seventies, AA in my area worked a little different than perhaps what might be called the norm. Laywers, judges, doctors and the police all knew where the meetings were and in a lot of cases, who was there. AA wasn't looked upon as a place to shluff of problem drinkers or drug addicts, but as the place to help the alcoholic like no one else could.

When my friend stood before the judge, he asked him, Carl, can you go 6 months without drinking? He told him he could. The judge then replied, well that's good ... cause I'm baring you from any tavern in Iroquois County and ordering you to AA for 6 months ... do you have a problem with that? He replied no.

At the first meeting he attended, he ran across two gentlemen who came & talked with him while he was locked up. They welcomed him warmly. Not being excited with this whole 6 month thing, Carl took a chair around the table that formed a circle, and turned it 180 degrees around ... he sat with his back to the group. As the meeting began, each member went around introducing themselves as alcoholic. It came Carl's turn ... he turned and faced them and said my name is Carl (last name) and the judge sent me here for 6 months, so you'll be seeing me awhile. At the end of that 6 months, I'm outta here and you can all kiss my a$$. No one said anything, other than we're glad you're here.

Within a few weeks Carl decided that if he had to be here, he might as well pay attention. Maybe he could learn something that would help him after his time was up ... maybe a way to drink "right". He said the more he listened, the more he learned. The more he learned, the more he wanted to know. The night came that after one of his meetings, upon returning home he went in stood in the front yard in the dark. He looked up to the sky and had a talk w/ God as he understood him. He said while looking up, do you think I can do this or not? Can I really go the rest of my life without ever drinking again?

He tells us he doesn't know what happened, but he can tell us for sure that God never said anything back. He he does say, when he got inside, he just some how knew that being with those other people, is where he was supposed to be.

He never drank again.

I still sit by this old bird every Saturday night. He's a dear friend. When I see someone walk in the door with that piece of paper in their hand, I think of him and his story. I then watch God work as Carl talks with that person off to the side after the meeting.

I don't blame our courts or anyone else for people showing up with "the paper" to be signed. Instead, I blame myself. In 20 years of sobriety, I've never one time made the attempt to go to the county lock up, to talk with a local judge, or even the local police chief looking to help the potential alcoholic. Rather, I park my duff in a chair waiting magically for one to walk in the meeting room door. I'm not belittling the importance of that, cause it's real 12th step work ... but it's not the end all be all.

This threads been good for me. It's given me the motivation to have a conversation with Carl to see what we might be able to do, just like another two guys did for him so long ago. And maybe in doing that, help our friends on the outside locally, be a little more informed themselves.

[RufusACanal]

Powerful experience Paul. Let me throw in two cents; AA is not mandated by law or rule in any way, shape or form to honor court slips; through the group conscious, each meeting makes a decision to honor and support those who come to us from the courts. As a member, I have no problem with those who come with slips and the when and how of signing makes no difference to me either. I do expect, that each man or woman is afforded the same opportunity to discover a New Life as I was and for as many times as necessary. As long as the relationship between the legal system and AA in those meetings I attend remains as it is today, those seeking help via the suggestion of the court will find it.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by doorknob

I dunno, Zing... I'm not a very good bullshitter, mostly because I don't like to do it. I much prefer to be a straight shooter, even if it means I might not be accepted. I did lie to my treatment counselor while I was on probation, but I did not like it. I really liked and respected her (had a crush on her too, lol), and it hurt to not be able to be honest with her. But, she was obligated to report any substance use to the probation department, which would have gotten me thrown in jail. I'd actually like to give her a call and come clean, and let her know how I'm doing.

Glad

you don't like lying!!!!

[scaredykat]

I voted for "I decided".

I came back to AA because I was finally sick and tired of being sick and tired as a lonely housewife drunk. I'm so grateful I made it back to the rooms. I would still be drinking if we didn't get this computer in 2006 and I found SR to help me find my my back.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by scaredykat

I voted for "I decided".

I came back to AA because I was finally sick and tired of being sick and tired as a lonely housewife drunk. I'm so grateful I made it back to the rooms. I would still be drinking if we didn't get this computer in 2006 and I found SR to help me find my my back.

THE S/R SITE HELPED ME A LOT :ghug2

[RufusACanal]

Sober recovery and the men and women here, no matter the situation have been my safe harbor and a major part of my continuing New Life.

[Lily]

I was court ordered in 1987, but found it on my own again in 1991. so mine is divided.

[BP44]

The last time someone bitched at the meeting about being court ordered I suggested that they had options. Afterall, this is a free country. I suggested she cut off the court ordered ankle bracelet and take the slip to the judge and tell him to stick both of them up his a$$ that she wasn't going to attend any of those fricken AA meetings. Of course, that pissed her off, but sure enough, she came to only a couple of meetings. Haven't seen her in a while. Wonder if she took my suggestion or if she used her keen alcoholic mind to develop a scheme of signing her own paper. Either way, AA isn't for people who need it. It isn't even for people that want it. AA is for people that work it and live it.