Is God a mental illness?

[TigerLili]

I've been in AA for 8 months and I'm 82 days sober.

I have to go and have a clinical appraisal to see if I am Bi Polar. I am most likely BP II. I am a bit manic this week. All week people have been telling me that I look great (I was a hot mess when I came into the rooms), that I've reall GOT IT, I've written about 50 pages of great (IMO) insight into my head, had messages from my higher power ('everything you think is wrong', if 'you can't pray for yourself pray for someone else' - I could go on.)

A red flag went up when everyone was telling me I really had IT - even people with 20 years sobriety. I've been sober 82 days. I got nothing here. I'm one drink away from the grave. I'm hanging on by my fingernails.

I've lost about 10 pounds recently and have a new hair style, so yes, I do look much better than I did a while ago, but I feel like the book is being judged by it's cover and the contents are being disregarded. I am a hot mess - every aspect of my life is in crisis but I have been able to start getting help. I have a debt counselling apt on Monday, I have had some repairs long overdue done on my home, got some advice on an employment law situation etc. It's taken me 8 months to get this far. I am far, far, far from well. I am only 82 days sober and I am scared to death.

The thing that concerns me is that I have a great spiritual belief in a higher power, have had many mystical experiences and believe in coincidences. According to the assessment form I had to fill in, believing that you have had mystical experiences and noticing many coincidences are two of the indicators of bi polar.

I can't get my head around this. Does that mean I can't believe in god any more?

I am so desperate to get well that I'm totally prepared to believe I was hallucinating or imagining things or whatever, but if for me, a belief in a higher power is a symptom of a mental illness, how will I get recovery?

What do other people with bi polar do?

[jimhere]

Don't try to get your head around such experiences. Accept them as the gifts they are. Accept you bi-polar for what it is. I am not bi-polar, but I have alcoholism. And I see it now as a gift that brings to me to God.

And if having a belief in God and if having an experience with God means being mentally ill, I must be mentally ill.

I read one time that there is a fine line between a crazy and a sage.

Several years ago a man I sponsored had a big experience with The Great Reality, a Second Step awakening, if you will. When he began to talk of his experience in meetings, people began to tell him that he was crazy and that he needed to see a doctor and all sorts of horse***t and he began to question his experience. I finally showed him Bill's Story, where after Bill had his experience in Towns Hospital, he thought that he was hallucinating or losing his mind. It took Doctor Silkworth's explaining to Bill that no, he was not crazy for Bill to see the truth of his experience.

You see Bill was losing his mind. In order to get well, we need a new mind and in order to get a new mind (be restored to sanity), we need to lose the old mind. Mystical experiences are the losing of the old mind a the beginning of the new one. For some this is a sudden thing, for others it is a gradual awakening.

You may be bi-polar, but that does not dimish the reality of what you have experienced. I would advise against "Talking away your experience." So many, especially doctors will misunderstand them and try to define an experience with God in clinical terms. People in AA express their own agnosticism and just brush off the experience. So my advice would be to keep quiet of such experiences for now, except maybe to a sponsor or close spiritual advisor. When the time comes for you to make your experience known to the world, it will be apparent.
Peace,
Jim

[zoomer]

Hi I am bi-polar and I take my meds as told. After taking my meds for a while my thinking got clearer and I was more responcible for myself and thoughts.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I'd be on my knees more then ever in meditation

[laurie6781]

First of all, with what I have seen over these many years of continuous recovery, is most people coming into recovery, could probably be diagnosed as Bi Polar in their first year of recovery.

A good pysch Dr won't even touch a diagnosis like that until the person has been sober and clean for some good months time. That being said, I was diagnosed FINALLY at a bit over 9 years sober.

Sounds to me, your READING TOO MUCH about symptoms, OVER ANALYZING, instead of just KEEPING IT SIMPLE in a time when EMOTIONS and FEELING are all over the board, feeling things you used to NUMB.

Riding the roller coaster of recovery is one fascinating ride. Luckily when I got into recovery, they had some SIMPLE things they told me that really made a lot of sense:

"Hang onto your azz, you're in for one h*ll of a ride."

"Your problem is.............you know how to 'soar' but you haven't learned how to land properly yet, so when you come down off the current 'natural high' you go SPLATT."

Ah yes those wonderful things, but they gave me a mental picture I could wrap my mind around and see where they were right.

Go ahead, get your evaluation, but take it with some 'grains of salt.' Get a sponsor, work the steps and get RE EVALUATED when you garner a year.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

If in fact you are Bi-polar it will take some time to find the right medication or combination of medications that will help you function, and that takes time.

So, please get a Sponser, follow to the best of your ability the suggestions your sponsor gives you, use your HP as you understand him/her and try and stay in today. You will be amazed at how much YOU start to change and your life gets calmer.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[historyteach]

I answered your other thread on the MH forum. Since you mentioned you posted here, I came here to see what these good folks had to say too. And you also elaborated more here too.

Again, in all my reading, I"ve seen no research that states believing in coincidences or having mystic experiences makes on bipolar. If that were so, The Dali Lama; the Pope; most priests, rabbis, ministers and many of us lay folks would be bipolar. I personally have mystic experiences and wouldn't give them up for the world. These are glimpses into what is real and lasting, as opposped to the illusions that we live in every day. (Think Plato and the Alegory of the Cave story).

What is it that makes you think you are bipolar? Because you think you're manic? Well, after you've spent so much time drinking, isn't it normal to have lots of energy when you first get sober? That "pink cloud" effect? Feeling on top of the world?

Do take time to research about the condition. Belief in a HP; mystic experiences and coincidences have nothing to do with being bipolar. Unless, of course, you believe you *are* the HP!!!

Shalom!

[CAPTAINZING2000]

My buddy in the program was telling me a story of how, he'd gone to his Dr. over his depression. The Dr. asked him to wait for a while in his clean time to make sure, it wasn't over his drinking and drug use. To top it off, he was going thru a divorce as well. I'd be depressed over the events he was going thru as well.


I can't even recall a pink cloud in my early recovery. It might have been 2 years for the clouds of depression left me.

I didn't get myself all screwed up over night and I sure didn't get well over night either.

I didn't get serious about meditation the first 2 years either. At which point, it was suggested to be doing so. I didn't see a burning bush as a result of my prayer but, the fog has lifted and life is pretty dog gone good today.

I love the feeling of gratitude every day

[Ago]

I am going to go with Jim and Laurie on this one.

I have had "spiritual experiences" as a result of the steps and meditation that usually only occurred when I was overdosed on hallucinogenics in the past, I mean "crazy" sh1t, luckily for me, twice when these have occurred there was an actual eyewitness who's jaw dropped and who turned to me and asked..."Ummm, did that just happen?"

This is what's meant by "miracles become commonplace" in AA, but it's better to have those experiences alone then to share them with someone who doesn't or won't understand.

Meds won't take God away, only we can push God away.

[Kallista]

Originally Posted by TigerLili

I can't get my head around this. Does that mean I can't believe in god any more?

I am so desperate to get well that I'm totally prepared to believe I was hallucinating or imagining things or whatever, but if for me, a belief in a higher power is a symptom of a mental illness, how will I get recovery?

What do other people with bi polar do?

I don't have bipolar, but I have a bunch of people with bipolar illness in my family. I have had severe recurring depressions over the course of my life, including in sobriety.

Here's the deal: any mental health issue or other health issue other than alcoholism is an "outside issue." In my experience, AA members should not give anyone advice on it, because we're not doctors or therapists or social workers. Under no circumstance should an AA member advise anyone regarding any treatment someone has to take for your bipolar illness or any medication. Any recovering person should tell whoever is treating him or her for the bipolar that you are an alcoholic.

The reasons I say all this is that in my time in AA, I have seen two members with bipolar illness be advised by other AA members that they should stop taking the medications prescribed for their bipolar illness or they would not be "really sober." In both cases, the young women stopped taking those medications and relapsed on the bipolar issue. They had to stay at the hospital and restart their medication. It was a few weeks before they were stable on medication again. One of them attempted suicide while she was off her medication. It was a bad, bad outcome and based on advise from AA members who meant well but didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

Delusions of "talking to God" are part of bipolar illness, but not all spiritual experiences come from mental illness. Perfectly healthy people have these spiritual experiences.

You need to find a sympathetic therapist (ie. not an athiest) and talk this out with him/her. It's a bit complicated for most AA members and beyond our experience.

[Music]

Originally Posted by TigerLili

According to the assessment form I had to fill in, believing that you have had mystical experiences and noticing many coincidences are two of the indicators of bi polar.

I don't happen to believe in coincidences any more but I sure do believe in mystical experiences and have had many, starting with the day I went to my first AA meeting almost 32 years ago. I didn't get up that morning with any intention of going to AA but sometime that morning, I was presented with an undeniable truth that my life was in shambles, and I needed to get help to stop the insanity of drinking. I got that help and have been sober since. If any of this makes me a candidate for being bi-polar, I'm happy to join the club. I've experience so much that I have no explanation for, except that I just set my mind to not taking that first drink, and doing whatever I needed to do to make that happen. I made some outside physical changes too in the beginning and received a lot of encouragment from people at meetings who said I was doing better, sounding better and looking better and although I did have some reservatioins as to whether or not they were in full control of their capacities, I just ran with it and figured they could see and hear things I couldn't. But the things they said, kept me going and gave me hope and the desire to do whatever it took. It just takes longer to clear the wreckage of the past, when it comes to the mental and spiritual aspects of the disease. I cleaned up pretty fast physically, but the rest took some outside help from therapists and counselors. I still take life a day at a time and I still stand guard at the portal of thought because my problems today, as in the beginning still boil down to the way I think, not necessarily the way I act or the way I look. I still have a thinking problem and if I ever drink again, it won't matter what I say or what I'm wearing. The excuse will come from somewhere in my head, telling me that drinking is a good idea. That's why I still go to meetings, have a sponsor and sponsor people and above all, talk to my HP every day.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by Music

I don't happen to believe in coincidences any more but I sure do believe in mystical experiences and have had many, starting with the day I went to my first AA meeting almost 32 years ago. I didn't get up that morning with any intention of going to AA but sometime that morning, I was presented with an undeniable truth that my life was in shambles, and I needed to get help to stop the insanity of drinking.

Admission of a drinking problem wasn't hard but, the admission my life was in shambles was.

Doing the Hail Mary prayer. Sad to admit, I don't think, I was even sincere in my prayer of getting me out of my mess I'm in now.

[lizw]

I don't have bi polar but have had a lot of expereince with mental illness in my family and extended family and from what I have observed is that when the mentally ill talk of god and what he wants them to do, it is generally in a negative way. I.e. God told me to kill that person or Jesus told me to get a credit card, drive to a different town and clock up thousands of dollars worth of debt.

I can't say I have ever met someone who was mentally ill that has had good/sane expereinces with God as a result of their mental illness.

If it works for you and isn't hurting anybody else, I say cherish it as much as you can.

[TigerLili]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

The reason I think I'm bipolar is because I didn't meet anyone in my blood family until I was in my 30's and most of them are in and out of psych hospitals. I prolly should have mentioned that before!! My mother is a type of schizophrenic disorder and is alcoholic. she is routinely involuntarily committed. I don't know anything about my father's side.

Also, and this is quite embarassing, I thought everyone had a bunch of voices talking to them in their heads. I once asked a friend who is psych nurse about it and he said that if the voices were telling me GOOD things, prolly nothing to worry about.

However, I've had manic and depressive episodes since high school. I've been hospitalised after several suicide attempts. I was only ever treated for the depression. I can see now that in therapy, I'd start an upswing after a few months and feel fine so stop therapy. I have pretty had much every symptom related to bipolar since my teens and early 20's when I wasn't drinking daily, or even that frequently. It's not a recent thing.

A lot of the unmanageability in my life has stemmed from over spending and over committing to stuff when I'm manic and then crashing down in a spiral of suicidal depression. I can't keep anything consistent in my life because of the up and down pattern. Before I started daily drinking, I couldn't keep a job for more than a few months. I've been in my job now for 2 years and that's the longest I've ever held a job. I'm 39 btw.

Also, I was talking to my dr about this a year ago and she gave me a referral for an assessment back then and I didn't go. All things considered inc family history, there is a good chance I do have a bipolar disorder and if I get it treated I'll feel better.

It's a great comfort to come here and talk about stuff. I'll take what everyone has said on board and talk to my dr about it. For the first time I'll also mention that I'm in AA and that I have a drinking problem.

[Bamboozle]

I'm a little dismayed to read some of the comments suggesting that the original poster should wait a while as sober before getting a diagnosis. It may not be caused strictly by alcohol use...many people begin to "self-medicate" after they experience symptoms of mental illness. This may or may not be the case.



Regardless, it is not our place to give medical advice.

TigerLili, please see a qualified doctor, and as Kallista pointed out (actually, there are many good points in Kallista's post), make sure he/she is sympathetic and be honest about what you told us.

[Dee74]

Bam is right TigerLilli - you may have BP, you may not, these symptoms might be alcohol related or they may not be - none of us is qualified to judge. Go see the Doc and be honest

I'm glad you're getting help for the crises in your life too.

As for the God thing - some will always ascribe religious phenomena to rational causes. Those who believe will always find another meaning.

Follow your heart is my best advice

D

[BackToSquareOne]

I believe that many alcoholics use alcohol to self medicate anxiety, depression or other mental health issues. In the long run alcohol only serves to make these conditions much worse. As others have said the mental health issues should be treated by the medical profession but your doctor should be made aware of your drinking history. Many of these conditions will greatly improve as your sobriety time increases but that does not obviate the need for qualified medical care.

[RufusACanal]

TigerLili,

Thank you for your courage to post. I too, live with mental illness though I believe that healing happens each day of this New Life as long as I am active in my own recovery. Mental illnesses are real and tangible. Once recognized, each form of mental illness has some form of treatment regimen that relieves symptoms and allows normalcy to return if I am active and responsible for my recovery; so for me, there is always hope.

I can share my opinions and experience, but I am in no position to give any medical analysis as to your particular situation. Why? I am not a Medical Doctor and I am not specially your Doctor. I do know in my life that the longer I am not drinking; the easier it is for me to isolate those issues that remain especially those that are mental in nature. Professionals are there to provide what direction I need to be more effective in life. If I can help, please PM me at your convenience.

[nocoincidence56]

Hello TigerLili,

In 2001, a week into my second rehab, the Doc "diagnosed" me bipolar along nearly everyone else who came in around that time. I bought into it and stayed on meds for six years, Effexor, Zyprexa, Trileptal, Nurontin, Depakote, Wellbutrin, all spread out over that time. Since I was never really sober during that time, none of it had a chance to work properly. Thing is, even if I had stayed sober, I was not bipolar, depressed-yes. I discovered this in the last year after being sober over a year. While I was using there was no way to really know, later there was. I found out with the help of a Doc who I got to know... All I take now is Wellbutrin and life is good.
Get medical help and get sober for a while before you buy into being bipolar, it could be something else or nothing at all or, in fact, bipolar. Be open and honest with your Doc....:ghug

[Zencat]

Originally Posted by TigerLili

Also, and this is quite embarassing, I thought everyone had a bunch of voices talking to them in their heads. I once asked a friend who is psych nurse about it and he said that if the voices were telling me GOOD things, prolly nothing to worry about.

One symptom of my mental illness started years ago when I was heavily addicted to Meth: hearing voices, specifically hearing the voice of God and Satan. I never considered that experience to be mystical but a nasty frightening drug induced side effect of Meth. However, even being clean from Meth for 2 or 3 years I can still experience those voices when certain events cause me to be under extreme duress. I too feel embarrassed about this part of my illness and rarely tell anybody about it.

Originally Posted by Bamboozle

I'm a little dismayed to read some of the comments suggesting that the original poster should wait a while as sober before getting a diagnosis. It may not be caused strictly by alcohol use...many people begin to "self-medicate" after they experience symptoms of mental illness. This may or may not be the case.

I'd like to add that sill others may self-medicate one illness only to have the self-medicating bring the onset of another mental illness.

At any rate TigerLili I would suggest being under the care of a qualified doctor so as to monitor your symptoms and progress.

[doorknob]

I have really bad OCD, with or without drinking. I'm taking medication, but it's not helping much.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Lot of good reply's

Make mention of your drinking to a Dr.

I know people that'll forgo their meds so, they can drink.
That's sad