...when I accepted my Alcoholism as real

[RufusACanal]

Since it has come up again, I would like to segue over to this continuing controversy over the real Alcoholic. First, I go to the Big Book. Why? The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous is the basic text for our fellowship; this book is the study guide to a New Life. As a member of AA for a few twenty four hours, I use what is suggested by those who recovered from a seemingly hope malady called Alcoholism, not Expressionism and where better to find the answers than in a place where the solution is clearly given. When I read the posts that are in opposition to the term real Alcoholic, I have to scratch my head. To better understand my discontent, I go to the source, the Big Book.

"As we look back, we feel we had gone on drinking many years beyond the point where we could quit on our will power. If anyone questions whether he has entered this dangerous area, let him try leaving liquor alone for one year. If he is a real alcoholic and very far advanced, there is scant chance of success. In the early days of our drinking we occasionally remained sober for a year or more, becoming serious drinkers again later. Though you may be able to stop for a considerable period, you may yet be a potential alcoholic. We think few, to whom this book will appeal, can stay dry anything like a year. Some will be drunk the day after making their resolutions; most of them within a few weeks."

I questioned for years not my Alcoholism, but rather if my life was worth recovery. I had lost hope that I would ever amount to anything. Being a real Alcoholic was never in doubt, becoming a member of society and living free was always something unobtainable. Over the years and the many relapses, I began to realize that many Alcoholics did not drink like I did and continue living; was I different? At some point I simply accepted that my pattern was different not my disease.

“To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have. This is particularly true of women. Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years. Certain drinkers, who would be greatly insulted if called alcoholics, are astonished at their inability to stop. We, who are familiar with the symptoms, see large numbers of potential alcoholics among young people everywhere. But try and get them to see it!”

Some years ago, when I accepted my Alcoholism as real, not a myth, I began to recover. Acceptance that I could move past the pain into the light with a restoration of hope finally came to me. There was relief that I knew who I was and was accepted by my peers. I no longer had to hide in the shadows and seek death and every turn. I was a real Alcoholic just like the book said and with this realization, I began to accept the solutions presented in the Book.

“We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals - usually brief - were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.”

That was me; a man who could never recover control of my drinking – a real Alcoholic. Even today, I find it hard to describe the exhilaration I feel knowing what I truly am. It is one thing knowing what are you, it is vast different to know who you are.

Now back to our difference of thinking. Why is the term real Alcoholic such a stumbling block to so many?

“Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.”

I was unwilling in those earlier years to admit that I was a real Alcoholic, in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

“We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed. We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals - usually brief - were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.”

I will leave this here and continue later, work calls.

[Ago]

I personally don't think there is any confusion whatsoever here about the difference between a "hard drinker" and a "real alcoholic" the difference in opinion lies in what we do and how we do it.

I am a "peace lovin, granola eatin, live and let live, unconditional love kind of guy

I don't feel "qualified to tell you "your problem" or "your solution" but I can tell you what "my problem" and "my solution" is, and the solution of millions of others, which happens to be the spiritual awakening as a result of working the twelve steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I am not qualified to give you advice or opinion, only to share my experience, strength and hope.

OK, here is where the rubber hits the road, the moment someone either says "I want your opinion" or worse yet, "Will you sponsor me?" all bets are off.

You have just asked for my "opinion" so look the "F" out.

Some here have actually figured out, I am actually a terrifying "Book Thumper" of the "old school", but it's just my answer, not everybody's, and as Steve says intolerance of others is absolutely unacceptable behavior.

I just happened to read the "whole" book, including the parts that say we aren't Doctors, the we realize we know but a little, that we have an answer that works for us, and that "love and tolerance" of others is our code, and intolerance of others is unacceptable and we can choose our own conception of God.

That's why the "Book Thumpers" in my area love me, the message I have carries depth and weight.

"Attraction not Promotion" and "Love and Tolerance of others" are my mantras.

I have also learned over the years there is more then "One way up the mountain" I have a way that works for me, for my sponsees, and for millions of people around the world, but if "you" decide a "different way" works for you, God Bless You, whether it works or not, if it doesn't I will either be here for you to try "my way" or give you "Godspeed" on your next endeavor, I am not God, I don't know all the answers, I don't "know" whats best for you, all I know is what worked for me.

OK, back to sponsee's, I have dozens of "old sponsees" I have taken through the steps, many of whom have from 15 years, to seven years, I have grandsponsees, great grand sponsees, I have 100's of "descendants" in my "sponsee family" OK here is the speech I got, which I still give to this day:

The speech I give my new sponsees is verbatim here:

Sponsee: Will you sponsor me?

Me: Are you prepared to go to any length?

Sponsee: no

me: Take care, good luck

Sponsee: Yes

Me: OK, this is the speech my sponsor gave me, you don't get to be a little bitch ANY MORE, you have identified yourself as an alcoholic in the program of alcoholics Anonymous, that means you have admitted the problem, you have told the truth, you don't get to use that as an excuse for your bullshit behavior ANY MORE, from here on out, you need to mean what you say, and say what you mean, you don't get to lie any more, you've gone through your whole life lying, and it stops here, it stops with me, I'm the one person in the whole world you have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to, and if you have a problem with that, go find another sponsor, I got no problem with that, after you practice with me for awhile, you maybe will learn how to start telling the truth to others, all we have in this life is our word, it's the single most important thing that defines you as a man, and if your word is no good, you are no good, so it's time to rebuild that starting now. The fact you have admitted to God, to yourself, and to a group of alcoholics that you are an alcoholic means you don't ever have to take another drink again, you don't have any excuse to drink ever again, and if you do, it's because you lied to yourself.

that is literally the speech I got, and I give. Women are a little nicer to each other, but just so you know, I forgive my sponsees just about anything but lying to me repeatedly.

Even if they **** up, I make them "man up", and stop telling me ******* stories. Apologies don't cut it. "try" means "to make a feeble effort"

So, if someone decides they are a "real alcoholic" and reaches out for help, I'm there, it just looks different for different situations.

"Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for AA membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. AA is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization, or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety."

"I am responsible. When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of A.A. always to be there.
And for that, I am responsible."

It doesn't say anything there about chasing people away, giving medical advice, telling people that AA isn't for them, or they are "doing it wrong"

I personally don't think pushing people away from the program, or taking other peoples inventory is helpful, nor is "working other peoples programs" I can only be helpful by working my own, and being an example of the power of good in AA.

Anyhow, that's my opinion on this whole "real alcoholic" and "real solution" crap, which I have NEVER heard in a meeting of AA by the way, like Paul says, nothing but love in the rooms, although we do occasionally encounter a "bump", all I can do is to "be" the program of Alcoholics Anonymous" to the best of my ability.

If ANYBODY walks through the doors of AA and says, my name is ______ and I am an alcoholic, and I need help, I will do anything in my power to help them, inside the structure of the twelfth step.

Stay Sober and Help others to achieve sobriety

As simple today as it was yesterday when I wrote it.

[doorknob]

The controversy over the term is not that people are reluctant to consider themselves real alcoholics, but that the term is so often used to disqualify those who recover in ways that do not conform to what is suggested by the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

[Ago]

DK's post exactly illustrates my point.

DK, I love you, the doors are still open little brother, we are here for you.

[doorknob]

Right back atcha, homie! I'm not going anywhere...

[sugErspun]

I must say - I was in and out of rehabs, AA..I was dry, then drinking : people said I was an alcoholic..I said I was an alcoholic. But I couldn't get well..I could not stay stopped or enjoy the times I was stopped fully.

I can write this off to poor sponsorship, or bad meetings or any other number of things. The fact is - I went to meetings, studied the big book for six years and couldn't have told you what AA defines an alcoholic as until I went through it as a text - with a teacher who experienced what AA says is possible. When I started with my sponsor he told me the following: "We are going to approach this with the assumption that we don't know if you are alcoholic or not - and this book is going to help us find out." I had to consider that maybe I wasn't alcoholic just as much as I had to consider that I am.

I know people who were active in AA, put together many years sober (one person 10 years of meetings - service...very active in AA). Went through the steps again at 10 years and has returned to normal drinking (no loss of control) for the last 5 years. Once in awhile having a drink here and there. Used to be a gutter drunk - now has moderated. This used to peeve me a bit - like they were some sort of fake, but the truth is - they were the hard drinker and fearlessly went back and faced "Am I really an alcoholic" 10 years away from a drink - to find out that they were not.

It was just a phase of hard drinking that cause a lot of trouble. I am positive this is not an isolated incident.

Thank God I have a working definition of what an alcoholic (vs hard drinker) is today. Before that - I always thought I had some sort of mental weakness or just didn't try as hard as those who quit when the going got tough. I found alcoholism inside me - not because of the amount I drank, or the physical, emotional, family, friend, work, relationship pain it cause - that is all outside circumstance. Inside me - my body, my mind, my spirit.

A singleness of purpose (alcoholism) needs to have a definition of what alcoholism is, right? It is not my job to qualify or disqualify anyone based on opinion. In the qualification of alcoholic - I don't look at the terrible things that have happened as a result of drinking, or the lack thereof.

Open the book. Discuss experience.

Can you relate? Does this make sense? Can you control the amount you drink when you start - every time? Have you ever lost control of the amount you drink once you started? Have you sworn off, just to 'change your mind' later? Why do you think you can't stop? Why do you think you can't stay stopped?

Are you tired and want to get well?

[nandm]

I appreciate the title to this thread as it completely puts into words my thoughts on the subject of the "real alcoholic".

"When I accepted my Alcoholism as real" What a great way to describe when we become a "real alcoholic."

Thanks again Rufus. I truly appreciate all you do here at SR.

[RufusACanal]

The more I read this from the Book, the more it makes sense to me;

"We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control."

Wishing for a THANK YOU key for Christmas!

(((nandm)))

[Pam08]

Thank you Rufus and Ago, very good reading. I am fairly new to AA, and 18 days sober. I go to a really great meeting, actually two different meetings. The noon daily meeting is compiled of alot of ole timers, little bit of tough love. I have narrowed down between two women to pick my sponsor..very different people, and I beleive I am going to go with the one I think might be a bit tougher..
These ole timers speak of how you have to be willing to do anything, follow the steps and pray..what amazed me when i first started going was the people with 20/30 years sobriety still coming to meetings practically everyday....Now I understand more...c..I guess they have seen alot of people leave the rooms and next they have seen them is in a funeral home...they never make it back, I am sorta anxious to start the steps, beentold of the spiritual awakening. I have resentments I need to get on the table and out..anyway, thank you for the posts. I am very into absorbing all I can to help in my recovery

[Ago]

Welcome Pam, congratulations on 18 days, that truly is an incredible accomplishment, it has been my experience that it's harder to get from day one to day thirty then day thirty to even five years.

You will "know" which sponsor to pick when, and even if it's the "wrong" choice, it will have been the right choice, years later I have looked back and said, "Oh, my making the "wrong" choice there made me learn, which lead me to this, which lead me to my spiritual awakening"

There is something that happens when you just do the next right thing everything just seems to fall into place.

Working the program sometimes feels like you are just flinging poop against the wall and nothing seems to "stick" then all of the sudden everything magically falls into place. Just remember you are just in charge of flinging poop, you aren't in charge of "adhesion".

Get a sponsor, work the steps, then grab ahold of yer butt, because you are in for a wild ride where miracles become commonplace.

[Pam08]

Great analogy. What you are saying is what I am told in almost every meeting. I want to work the steps. I am not really afraid to except for the fact that I ama bit lazy, but I want so much to start on the journey. I will take the first one I see this weekend..they both have years and I know they are both good with their own techinques. I know from what I have seen life can only get better. I hope people read this post, I already know AA is powerful, just going to meetings.

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by Ago

Working the program sometimes feels like you are just flinging poop against the wall and nothing seems to "stick" then all of the sudden everything magically falls into place. Just remember you are just in charge of flinging poop, you aren't in charge of "adhesion".

Dude... that is disgusting, LOL!

[Ago]

Originally Posted by Pam08

I know from what I have seen life can only get better. I hope people read this post, I already know AA is powerful, just going to meetings.

18 days and you are "doing the deal"

your post brought tears to my eyes, you are gonna be just fine dear

[doorknob]

18 days is the shiznit!

[Pam08]

Thanks for the support I am doing everything I can to make it.


Btw
Doorknob, didn't like the poo flinging? LOLOL
Was a serious conversation, and I got the meaning, didn't see it as funny or disgusting, just absorbing it....then you come back w/ dude.. that is disgusting...just cracked me up..lol...still laughing..

[bballdad]

I like to set the hard drinker aside and used social drinker,problem drinker,and alcoholic

a social drinker has no problem apparently,and if so just stops,no problem,easy solution
a problem drinker has some problems concering their drinking,they may or may not be able to take care of such problems
a alcoholic has another drink despite the problems-a drink is the solution

they all three remind me of a story
3 people go into a bar and sit down
one is a social drinker
the other a problem drinker,the last one is a alcoholic

they order the same kind of drink
the bartender serves them their drinks,each drink has a fly in it

the social drinker says,just give me a coke,this drink has a fly in it
the problem drinker says,give me another drink,make it a double,quick...
the alcoholic has the fly by the nape of the neck yelling,spit it out,it`s all mine

[Dean62]

There is no reason in the world good enough for an alcoholic to stay sober.

[RufusACanal]

True Dean. I have been reminded repeatedly while in a "State of Rationalism" the following:

"The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink."