Is it possible to go back?

[BaldHeadedJohn]

This is probably the wrong place to post this- if it is I am sorry.
All replys are welcome, and I'll state up front that a debate is NOT my intention.

I was sober since Sept 21, and I started to drink again this past weekend. Now I'm on a 3 day bender. I'm not sure why- probably boredom, frustration, most likely it's because I'm a drunk.

I've attended AA in the past. I've read the Big Book, and I can identify with some of it. Not all of it. I've also read "Beyond the Influence" and "Above the Influence", and I realize that I do have a disease, despite what I may have said in previous posts.

I need some help. I can't believe everything that I've read in the BB, and I know that I can't keep drinking. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me who thinks that a higher power is not a "He" or a "Him"?

Thanks in advance;
BHJ

edit-
I mean can I go back to AA? Will I be accepted even though I don't subscribe to some of the tenets?

[Dean62]

Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn

I mean can I go back to AA? Will I be accepted even though I don't subscribe to some of the tenets?

You do know the only requirement to be a member of alcoholics anonymous don't you? Personally it has never once entered my mind that I have the authority to tell people whether they can come to meetings or not.

[sailorjohn]

Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn

This is probably the wrong place to post this- if it is I am sorry.
All replys are welcome, and I'll state up front that a debate is NOT my intention.

I was sober since Sept 21, and I started to drink again this past weekend. Now I'm on a 3 day bender. I'm not sure why- probably boredom, frustration, most likely it's because I'm a drunk.

I've attended AA in the past. I've read the Big Book, and I can identify with some of it. Not all of it. I've also read "Beyond the Influence" and "Above the Influence", and I realize that I do have a disease, despite what I may have said in previous posts.

I need some help. I can't believe everything that I've read in the BB, and I know that I can't keep drinking. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me who thinks that a higher power is not a "He" or a "Him"?

Thanks in advance;
BHJ

edit-
I mean can I go back to AA? Will I be accepted even though I don't subscribe to some of the tenets?

I like to think-and I'm sure the founding fathers of AA would agree-that you can distill AA into a very simple formula, don't drink, live an examined life, serve others. We need people struggling to remind of us of the cunning, baffling and powerful nature of our disease. Keep coming back.

[AW2486]

Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn

I can't believe everything that I've read in the BB, and I know that I can't keep drinking. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me who thinks that a higher power is not a "He" or a "Him"?

Just a suggestion.. If you still want to try the AA route.. after your sober 3-4 days with a clear head.. take a sheet of paper and write down exactly what you think a higher power should be, and start with that. AA says there is no rules on one's conception of HP/God. Just the willingness to try. Maybe try to find an understanding sponsor to help you.

Best of Luck.

[nandm]

Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn
I can't believe everything that I've read in the BB, and I know that I can't keep drinking. Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me who thinks that a higher power is not a "He" or a "Him"?

My HP is definately not a He, Him, or Her and I have been able to stay sober in AA for over 7 years. I just found something more powerful than me to believe in. It really doesn't matter what you start with as that will evolve over time as we learn and grow in sobriety. I started with the basic concept of electricity being more powerful than I and it worked for me. Electricity is powerful enough to kill me. All of our cells run on a form of energy/electricity. Our heart utilizes electricity to pump. So without it I would be nothing. I know quite a few who also do not subscribe to the Judeo Christian God and have done quite well in AA. I just don't worry too much about the word God, Higher Power, or whatever. I just know that there is something in the universe that is bigger and stronger than I and I substitute that thought when I come across the words to indicate God. Hope that helps. Glad you are back and working toward sobriety.

[ananda]

I don't believe in god. The higher power that I use the most in relationship to AA is the law of cause and effect.

People go in and out of AA all the time...you will not be the first person to come back after drinking again. For me the bigbook is simply the collection of the expereince strenght and hope of the first members of alchoholics anonomis. There are many people today with many different experiences and we all just share how it works for each of us. My group accepts that...if your current group doesn't, find another group who does...they are out there.

I'm glad you are alive and made it back to SR...some don't (hug)

[Sugah]

Yes. As you read the first edition (and every other edition) of the Big Book, you'll see Bill was asked, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?" That question made the program of AA possible for me. I don't personify my HP (except when I need to for my own comfort, and very often then, I don't personify my HP as He), and with some acceptance and open-mindedness on my part, I've been able to get past those parts of the Big Book where a HP is personified. Remember that when AA came to be, and the culture in which it came to be, it was difficult for the founding members to imagine anything but a patriarchal personified personal deity. I don't believe that it was done in order to keep folks like you and me out.

AW gives you a good suggestion. That same suggestion was given to me when I was twenty years old. Fourteen years later, I was finally desperate enough to get sober that I was able to put it into practice.

Also remember that when the Buddhist monks examined the steps, they heartily approved. It was suggested that perhaps Good could be substituted for God, but other than that, they thought they were just fine. Buddhism, like the program of AA, is a spiritual way of living rather than a religion.

Glad you're ready for another try, John. Welcome back.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Ago]

Funny you should ask

try this thread stick with it, we start discussing that very question

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ter-power.html (Talking to a Greater Power)

[sugErspun]

Seems to be an active subject today.

Yes you can go back, you will be well received.

The big book was not written to make anyone believe anything. It is a book that has specific instructions for a specific goal. I didn't believe much of it either - but, start doing some of what it says (most important of which was setting aside what I think I know to be open for this life to teach me a lesson)...and see if you get some results.

People get a little touchy on this subject - but I think it's important to ask "How important is getting sober to you? Are you willing to do what it takes?" Because chances are - God is not going to strike you sober, I think it's possible, but more likely it's going to take some work...doing some stuff that you don't want to do. Strangely enough - when I started doing those things I was so afraid of (inventory, ammends, helping othes)..they were oddly comforting and put me at peace. These are just my words though - I have no way of proving anything to you, but I think most will agree...reading the book and sitting in meetings just isn't going to have any 'permanent effect'. There are twelve steps for a reason - to be 'done' or 'worked'.

"With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely." pp 58 http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_bigbook_chapt5.pdf

Letting go is scary, but possible.

[CarolD]

...John...
I'm so pleased to know you are planning a fresh start.

[bballdad]

John,here is what I did.First,let me say I was in and out for one year before I got sober.
Now here is what I did and it worked.I was in a newcomers meeting and I made the statement,well,I just don`t know about all this God stuff.
Valerie was there,and she asked me to try something
she asked me to set aside my present conception of God,religion,etc and start fresh with nothing.Just ask whoever or what ever that may be out there to help you stay sober today and then thank it at night.
i did and some weeks later I realized I was still sober,and liking it.I also realized I didn`t want a drink and could not remember when I had really wanted to drink,I was really wanting to stay sober.
That was my beginning....setting aside old ideas and just ask something new to help me stay sober

[353]

Hi John,

If you show up at a meeting I'm at, I know how I will see you.

You are part of God, a child of God, as it were.

Maybe God is nothing more than the feeling that we're all in this together and we can care about each other and help each other and build better lives together.

I have no idea what God is. But I know I can't stay sober by myself, I've tried.

When I share my life with others, sometimes giving, sometimes receiving, I seem to be able to live sober and happy.

Maybe God is just all of us together.

I pray that you find peace John...

Go get the help you need, it's OK

[Tazman53]

John Aethiest, Agnostic, Muslim, Jew, Pagan, Wiccan, Buddist, & everyone else is welcome in an AA meeting and every one of those has found a way to work the steps if they are Honest, Open, & Willing (HOW).

The ONLY requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking!

Does anyone have any suggestions for someone like me who thinks that a higher power is not a "He" or a "Him"?

I sure do! The AA fellowship and the steps. One of my sponsee's when he first came into the rooms was an Agnostic, we went through the steps, he is a changed man today, he has been sober over 1 1/2 years now...... today he calls himself more of an aethiest then an agnostic. LOL

Read the BB, especially the chapter to the agnostic and Bill's story, you will find that all it takes is a Power greater then yourself that you can beleive in. That power needs no name, gender, religion, shape nor form.

If you are Honest, Open, & Willing you will find a Power greater then your self within you, you will find that the power was there all along, but you just did not know it.

There is HOPE to be found within the rooms and program of AA for anyone who is Honest, Open, & Willing & will reach out their hand for help & is willing to do what ever it takes to get and stay sober.

What religion is my HP based upon? Heck I don't know if my HP is based upon any religion or dogma, it does not matter, I understand my HP, I am sober, I am free of alcholol and more importantly of self! I am happy, joyous and free!

As you have been welcomed here, you will be welcomed back into AA.

Yes AA has a sprinkling of jerks and religous zealots, but when you hear the saying "take what you want and leave the rest", those folks are the ones you can simply leave behind.

[BaldHeadedJohn]

Thanks all for your responses. I'm going to get a meeting list from another district, I can get a fresh start there. Maybe meeting some different people will be useful.
You know- I didn't even remember starting this thread last night. Blackout I guess- just after a few days.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll update my date in my profile sometime soon.

Blessings all
BHJ

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by sailorjohn

I like to think-and I'm sure the founding fathers of AA would agree-that you can distill AA into a very simple formula, don't drink, live an examined life, serve others. We need people struggling to remind of us of the cunning, baffling and powerful nature of our disease. Keep coming back.

Thank you!

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by BaldHeadedJohn

You know- I didn't even remember starting this thread last night. Blackout I guess- just after a few days.

Damn that's scary, John. Thanks for reminding me how dangerous drinking is for me. Hope you're having as good of a day as possible

[PaulN]

John - I really appreciate your honesty. You helped me, if that makes any sense.

My parents divorced when I was 6. No alcohol involved, just simply learned they really didn't love one another or want to spend their lives together (i didn't know all that then ... took years). My dad's parents very devote Catholics. Of course, I was raised with those beliefs through the efforts of my grandmother.

My mom married and divorced a total of 3 times. The first 2, alcoholics. The first was a very angry mean drunk. Very violent and very physical. At the age of 10, I learned how to take his focus off of my mom and put it on me. Him beating me seemed to make more sense than him beating her.

While growing up through all this, grandma (dad's side) had a huge influence on the way mom raised me. Mom wasn't crazy about it, but it was easier for her to give in than to work with her. I was forced to attend church, go through confirmation, alter boy, etc. Now in me saying all this, I have no ill will towards religion ... need you to hear that up front. My issue though, is that I would attend church alone ... as a kid ... and hear what I thought was being said. Do wrong, you're screwed. How to pray, act, think, on & on.

I prayed. I prayed my butt off, begging God to stop the beatings. Back then, I assumed I was praying wrong, cause nothing happened.

Forward up to the end of my drinking, and I was filled with thoughts and opinions on how much use God was to me. I made a pact with him ... you go your way, I'll go mine.

When I got sober ... I saw & heard "God". I'd rather have taken a beating ... I wanted nothing to do with it.

The first 18 years of my recovery, were nothing but a half assed stab at the steps, attending meetings more for the social aspect than anything, and a really half hearted attempt of putting any effort into staying sober.

Life was good, still had my wife, daughters were born and now are close to being out on their own, decent job, nice house, etc. But inside, still some sort of hole.

There I stood being able to quote the BB, tell others how they might be doing it wrong, not ever really being over the past, and still scared as hell. Still easier to look at everyone else rather than myself.

A man in AA who explained how in his life, he had no more what he called stomach jumpers. He explained that as being able to sit in a room any where on this planet, and not having any fear or worry that someone or something would enter that room and make his stomach flip. I didn't have that. I had ok, but I didn't have that.

He took me through the steps. And we spent time on step 3. With his help, it was a post-it-note with MY own conception of God on it. I wrote the words ... MY thoughts what God was or is to me. Not what I was taught, someone else described, but my own. I carried that note, stuck to my cigarette pack for a long time. Reach for a smoke, there it was. It was simple ... it was acceptable and I was able to move ahead.

No bright lights or huge flashes of some shining thing in the sky for me. But I did have a new acceptance of my own belief ... something I could swallow and live with and it allowed to me to continue forward.

I don't thump God or what anyone's belief in God is. I got my own. And in taking the remaining steps, I came to better appreciate and build upon what I originally wrote on that post-it-note.

Heres the simple fact ... my way sucked at living. Booze or no booze.

When I finally hurt more than I was afraid, I did something. No magic bullets ... no secret anythings. It's was just following what the first 100 did to get what they got. It honest to God, is really that simple.

I wish you the absolute best and I hope you're able to find another AA who's really taken the steps themselves and is willing to taken them again with you. That ain't required, but for me, it was a necessity. I swear to you, you'll find a life you never dreamed of if you just give it a try.

Good luck.

Wow ... sorry I got windy!

[RufusACanal]

John,

You are not alone. I too, am with you today as you make a new start at living free.

Please let me know if I can help.

[BaldHeadedJohn]

Thanks all.
PaulN- that's quite a story. Glad you're doing well. I googled some relatively close meetings. Now to get some directions.

Thanks again so very much.

Blessings
BHJ

[Dean62]

Ditto what Ron said.

I'm right there with you.

[paulmh]

Sometimes I don't like the phrase "take what you want and leave the rest". Particularly in regard to people who aren't yet able to get sober, putting pre-conditions on what they will and won't do. I mean, obviously it's your right to say what you believe in. But if you seriously want to get sober, and you're going to try AA again, then please, leave your prejudices at home. Go along, do as you're told and see where it gets you. When you write about what you believe in and what you don't, what you find acceptable and what you don't, I hear analogies. I hear someone who wants to take up archery, but doesn't "do" stringed objects, doesn't like to "aim", doesn't agree with pulling, doesn't believe in abstractions like "velocity" and "trajectory". But still goes along and wants to maintain their prejudices and simultaneously learn to propel arrows into targets. And, incidentally, will blame everyone in the archery club when they are not accomodated and they don't become successful.

Yes, AA will welcome you back, and probably everyone there will bite their tongues and say nothing about your reservations. But if you genuinely want to find a different life? Be prepared to give up the parts of the old one that don't work.

[RufusACanal]

Paul,

Mind if I copyright your analogue? Nice!

[stone]

Talking about HP's that are not a he or a him, there was a guy at the meeting I went to last night who was 30 years sober in AA....his HP was just AA itself.

My HP is isn't a he or a him either....I would recommend like Suger says, to do the action parts, inventory, amends, helping others.

"don't drink, live an examined life, serve others." Nice one SailorJohn.

[stone]

@Paulmh, I get your analogy but the purpose of the steps is to have a spiritual awakening, yes?

You can have spiritual awakenings that don't involve the 'g' word you know?

Stringed objects exist, trajectories exist...not everyone believes god exists and atheists, agnostics and Buddhists can all work the program just fine.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by paulmh

Sometimes I don't like the phrase "take what you want and leave the rest". Particularly in regard to people who aren't yet able to get sober, putting pre-conditions on what they will and won't do. I mean, obviously it's your right to say what you believe in. But if you seriously want to get sober, and you're going to try AA again, then please, leave your prejudices at home. Go along, do as you're told and see where it gets you. When you write about what you believe in and what you don't, what you find acceptable and what you don't, I hear analogies. I hear someone who wants to take up archery, but doesn't "do" stringed objects, doesn't like to "aim", doesn't agree with pulling, doesn't believe in abstractions like "velocity" and "trajectory". But still goes along and wants to maintain their prejudices and simultaneously learn to propel arrows into targets. And, incidentally, will blame everyone in the archery club when they are not accomodated and they don't become successful.

Yes, AA will welcome you back, and probably everyone there will bite their tongues and say nothing about your reservations. But if you genuinely want to find a different life? Be prepared to give up the parts of the old one that don't work.

Originally Posted by stone

@Paulmh, I get your analogy but the purpose of the steps is to have a spiritual awakening, yes?

You can have spiritual awakenings that don't involve the 'g' word you know?

Stringed objects exist, trajectories exist...not everyone believes god exists and atheists, agnostics and Buddhists can all work the program just fine.

First of all I agree with you about anyone being able to work the program. I'm closer to Taoist with Buddhist leanings then anything else.

but "the Tao that can be told isn't the Tao" ie the way things are can't be explained so we use analogies or in AA's case for me, the word "God". I had to learn to let go of my preconceived notions about that word.

Now, Good, God, Love all mean exactly the same thing to me...they are interchangeable, my "god" isn't a "God" as such. No petitioning with prayer (although I pray) no sentient being, I just did exactly what they said exactly how they said to and got exactly what they said it would (each step has promises) without thinking about it.

My way didn't work? OK, I'll try your way.

I think the point he was trying to make is just to let go of any preconceived notions one might have that is getting "in the way" of anyone "getting it". I read his post a number of times and I don't see the "G" word in it anywhere.

He just recommends letting go of preconceived ideas.

If you already are an "archery expert" but have never picked up a Bow in your life it makes it hard to learn from the Blind Zen master that can pink the center of a dime from 300 paces.

and that is SO my experience it isn't funny, I was lucky enough to get sober young when I "knew everything" and couldn't resist telling anyone who would listen about it, and was lucky enough to stumble across the most frightening human being on the Planet who literally got Sober when Eisenhower was still a General, he even looked like Yoda, just used considerably more profanity then Yoda, and I don't remember Yoda dragging Luke or Anakin out of the chamber by their ear after or during they said something particularly stupid yelling at them why they were such an F'ing idiot and how they should STFU because they were an embarrassment to themselves and humanity and couldn't learn anything if their godammed mouth was running all the time.

I was lucky in that I was young enough to have that sort of behavior work with me. I have never behaved that way, nor have I ever condoned that sort of behavior, but ....sadly enough that's what it took for me. I knew that man for years, and never saw him do that with anyone else, so i musta particularly needed it, and after I grew up a bit, we became pretty good friends before he passed away (I guess near when I hit about 30 or so)

that still gets brought up now and again (remember when Irv used to drag Andrew into the courtyard mid share during meetings and give him an a$$chew the whole meeting could hear? lolol lmao ...I'm like...it's not that funny guys hehe )