Talking to a Greater Power

[RufusACanal]

If I place my shoes under my bed at night before bedtime, I have to get on my knees. Why not kill two birds with one stone while I am already there?

"When we retire at night, we constructively review our day. Were we resentful, selfish, dishonest or afraid? Do we owe an apology? Have we kept something to ourselves which should be discussed with another person at once? Were we kind and loving toward all? What could we have done better? Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others. After making our review we ask God's forgiveness and inquire what corrective measures should be taken."


When I get up in the morning, I need to retrieve my shoes before going to work. Since I am once again on my knees why not repeat the process from the night before?


"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all God gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.

In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask God for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while.

What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.

We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why."

[doorknob]

How does an atheist digest these kind of topics? Ago? Ananda? SelfSeeking? Anyone... Bueller?

Same deal with this thread:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...comes-god.html (Everything in your life that is good comes from God)

[Astro]

"On awakening", my first sponsor had me start every day with that reading, from it I learned how to pray and meditate.

Thanks for posting this Ron. Sometimes I like to use the "AA Roll". I roll off the bed, onto the floor, and start my day with a prayer.

[stone]

Originally Posted by doorknob

How does an atheist digest these kind of topics? Ago? Ananda? SelfSeeking? Anyone... Bueller?

There is no point trying to digest these type of topics if you aren't in AA and trying to do the program DK.

Me, I don't pray, I meditate but I do constructively review my day of a night, and for this bit...

On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask God to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives.

I consider my plans for the day (I often make a list of things to do) and then I basically 'tune into my HP' which just means I sorta meditate and put myself into the right frame of mind for the day.

[fraankie]

i agree
frankie

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by stone

There is no point trying to digest these type of topics if you aren't in AA and trying to do the program DK.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post1977832 (I've been sober...)

[stone]

Lol Ok.

I did try to explain how I, as an atheist, digest these topic too!

[Ago]

flat out don't worry about it DK

You won't have to "address" this issue until you get to step 3 with a sponsor

This is step 10 stuff

once again, I don't believe in a "sentient" God that you can petition with prayer but I do this exactly as outlined.

If it works what difference does it make if "there is a God" or not.

seriously, let it go until you are at that point, I did and it's now a non issue, that was a LONG time ago.

[doorknob]

Thanks, Stone.

[stone]

Originally Posted by doorknob

Thanks, Stone.

No probs mate.

[stone]

Originally Posted by Ago

This is step 10 stuff

I am being pedantic for humour only here....

it is step 11 stuff.

[Ago]

crap

the moment I hit "submit reply" I was like, wait, was that ten or 11 , SH1T it IS 11 but .....too late

well this will follow me around for a few minutes I suspect I will live

[stone]

Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, Light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life

Terry Pratchett quote! Nice!

Sorry Rufus, gone a bit off topic on ya.

[nandm]

Our restoration to sanity is the result of the replacement of selfishness and selfcenterdness with God consciousness. Rather than leap immediately into planning how to arrange our affairs to suit ourselves we pray for direction from God. God's will, rather than self-seeking, is the focus of our thoughts. Should we ignore these clear-cut directions, our thinking will be self-directed. Remembering how well self-directed thinking has worked for us in the past, we can be motivated to follow this method of re-directing the focus of our thoughts.

Many people joke that A.A. will ruin one's drinking. Likewise praying for God to keep our thinking from being influenced by our defects serves to make us conscious of our motivations. We see plainly what it is that is driving our thoughts and actions and turn to God for relief.

Asking God for guidance allows God to use our lives to the greatest benefit. We are able to "relax and take it easy" because we know we can rely upon the will of God to work out for the best. Even our troubles become opportunites to demonstrate and thus deepen our faith.

We must be careful not to confuse rationalizations for our actions with guidance from God. Checking with others on the guidance we receive is a prudent practice. Our attempts to establish and maintain a channel of communication with God allows us to spend more and more time in conscious contact with our Creator.

Have you ever bought a new car and suddenly became aware of how many similiar cars are on the road? All of the sudden you see other cars like yours several blocks away when in the past you would never have noticed them. As meditation upon God's will for us replaces self-seeking, opportunities for usefulness in ways large and small appear all around us. We begin to see the true pupose and meaning of our lives.

Be careful what you pray for, you just might get it. This old adage rings true. We know the baleful results of achieveing our selfish ends. We decided in the third step to quit playing God and instead turned our will and our lives over to the care of God. When used properly, prayer turns us into a mighty tool to be wielded by God.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by doorknob

How does an atheist digest these kind of topics? Ago? Ananda? SelfSeeking? Anyone... Bueller?

Same deal with this thread:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...comes-god.html (Everything in your life that is good comes from God)

I will actually try To actually answer your question, and try to stay on topic at the same time, because I think it's important.

In AA we are encouraged to "pick a God of our own understanding"

For me, I was a paramedic, and I had recently "shocked" a number of people "back to life" using a defibrillator, so I know there is "electricity" in someone's heart, they are called the PQRST waves, you have seen them on TV or in the hospital.

OK, so for me, when I was asked to "believe in a power greater then myself" and I could use my own concept, I picked electricity, if I stuck my tongue in a light socket, or was struck by lightning, it would kill me, so "greater then myself" but it was inside me, I could "see" it, I could "measure it" I could feel my pulse, and I didn't understand it, there is "electricity" inside of every living thing, there was static electricity, electricity is a mystery.

So, when I plugged my own concept of God into any single AA writing, it worked for me, every time I saw the word God, He, Him, Power Greater then Myself, Higher power, ANYTHING I "plugged" my "mysterious electricity" into that slot where the "G" word was and it worked.

AA doesn't demand you believe in anyone else's idea of a God, when we have had this conversation in the past, all the definitions you gave me of God were always someone else's definition, not Doorknob's definition.

here's an Example:

"When we retire at night, we constructively review our day. Were we resentful, selfish, dishonest or afraid? Do we owe an apology? Have we kept something to ourselves which should be discussed with another person at once? Were we kind and loving toward all? What could we have done better? Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were we thinking of what we could do for others, of what we could pack into the stream of life? But we must be careful not to drift into worry, remorse or morbid reflection, for that would diminish our usefulness to others. After making our review we ask The Force/electricity forgiveness and inquire what corrective measures should be taken."

"On awakening let us think about the twenty-four hours ahead. We consider our plans for the day. Before we begin, we ask "The Force/electricity" to direct our thinking, especially asking that it be divorced from self-pity, dishonest or self-seeking motives. Under these conditions we can employ our mental faculties with assurance, for after all The Force/electricity gave us brains to use. Our thought-life will be placed on a much higher plane when our thinking is cleared of wrong motives.

In thinking about our day we may face indecision. We may not be able to determine which course to take. Here we ask The force/electricity for inspiration, an intuitive thought or a decision. We relax and take it easy. We don't struggle. We are often surprised how the right answers come after we have tried this for a while.

What used to be the hunch or the occasional inspiration gradually becomes a working part of the mind. Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with The Force/electricity, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it.

We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesn't work. You can easily see why."

You are literally allowed and even encouraged to do this, plug in whatever value you want for a "power greater then yourself" as long as it is a "power greater then yourself" and you will begin the journey so many of us are on.

When I "did this like that, I got this" every single step has "conditions, promises and a prayer, if you do this like this you get that, and they absolutely work that way for me.

All We ask for is for you to be open minded.

If I cut myself, the cut will heal, I don't "heal myself" it "heals by itself" so for me, that "mysterious electricity" that keeps my heart beating also does some other really strange stuff I don't understand. Look at any scar on your body. What healed that? not you, but you. uh oh a paradox.

I can't remember the exact quote but it talks about "the great truth" being "God" is found "inside of you" and for me, that EXACTLY matches my "electricity theory" plus, every living thing also has electricity inside of them so I can view them as "little bits of God" too

Your God doesn't have to be the "Divine intelligence" I am just as comfortable posting in the secular forum as I am in the spiritual forums as I am talking with Buddhists as I am talking about God in the AA forums, I am at home and agree with all of them.

SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE

The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.

Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous.

In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming “God-consciousness” followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook.

Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the “educational variety” because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self-discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves.

Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it “God-consciousness.” (note to DK, not everyone, our more religious members)

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial.

We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

Can you try using electricity? it's a power greater then yourself and it's inside you, around you, inside every living thing, every time you see the word "God" or any synonym thereof?

Or anything, it's your choice.

Plug electricity into Nandems post, try it everywhere you see the word God in The Big Book or posting about God as "he" applies to AA.

Buy a book and go through and cross out God he him whatever and put electricity if needs be, you can have whatever concept you so desire. The founders of AA made the doors of AA big enough so any alcoholic provided he's Willing, honest and open minded can fit through.

We love ya kid, have a great day.

I hope this wasn't a thread Hijack, if it was I sincerely apologize.

[nandm]

Ago, it is funny that you found electricity for your HP. I spent 12 years as a paramedic and that is exactly what I chose for my HP although it has evolved over the past 7 years it is still the basis of my belief.

[RufusACanal]

Regardless of what Step you are working, these suggestions above will work at anytime, at any place. Appreciating life, planning my day, looking forward, looking behind, being grateful, helping others, being responsible; these traits are not Step designated as much as they are life affirming. Yes, in the process of working and learning to live the Steps, I welcome each of these into my affairs and through daily practice they become part of my character if I am diligent. Regardless of where I am in recovery, this New Life, I can always reflect, prepare, appreciate, love and accept life more fully; it just takes practice.

[ananda]

One of my higher powers is the law of cause and effect and it really works beautifully for the program in most respects. I don't get down on my knees very often (just when I am doing my bows), but I think that is something that happens in your heart rather than the physical body.

There's lots of ways to do this all

[doorknob]

I dunno... context wise, it seems like a really far stretch. In the words of my friend Windysan, "I've got a headache..."

[sugErspun]

Context-wise, it is an incredibly far stretch....trying to comrehend that which is not comprehendable. That is why it is more about doing, than thinking.

I wanted to be sober so bad - I didn't care. I was told to say a simple prayer in the morning, so I did it. Usually while driving to work.

I had a little hope that 'maybe' this could work, just a little. My life changed.

For many years I was angry that the word understand was underlined in the 12 steps (at certain meetings)...because I didn't understand, couldn't understand..and I really really wanted to. When I actually just started going through the motions - things started to happen, things that I really don't have a good explanation for.

For me - prayer is just talking, meditating is like listening. It's a lot more simple when I just do it, rather than think about it.

[Ago]

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Context-wise, it is an incredibly far stretch....trying to comrehend that which is not comprehendable. That is why it is more about doing, than thinking.

I wanted to be sober so bad - I didn't care. I was told to say a simple prayer in the morning, so I did it. Usually while driving to work.

I had a little hope that 'maybe' this could work, just a little. My life changed.

For many years I was angry that the word understand was underlined in the 12 steps (at certain meetings)...because I didn't understand, couldn't understand..and I really really wanted to. When I actually just started going through the motions - things started to happen, things that I really don't have a good explanation for.

For me - prayer is just talking, meditating is like listening. It's a lot more simple when I just do it, rather than think about it.

Bingo

thank you so much

I can't "think" myself better, my "thinker" is what's "broken" but when I "took action" I changed.

Doorknob I was you, I am you, I was just so desperate that I took the action before I had a chance to think about it because I saw two brothers I had known all my life change by doing the same thing.

They said "don't worry about God" it will be a "non-issue" for the time you get there, and I let go and believed them.

They were right.

I am an alcoholic. I can make an F'ing rock complicated if I look at it long enough.

today, I do what's in front of me and try not to think about yesterday, tomorrow or stuff I can't control, that includes my "mind"

They say "So far no one has been proven to be "too stupid" to get AA but some of have been too smart to get it."

That has been my experience.

For me it was stretch or die, and the MOMENT I decided to go ahead and just have the willingness to stretch, something changed inside me and I have never looked back. I didn't even have to stretch, I just had to have the willingness to stretch.

The moment I plugged "the mysterious electricity" which I could "see" "measure" and "Quantify"
into the word God and all its permeation's, the program worked for me, it really did.

I stopped fighting and got better.

It was that easy.

[Dean62]

Originally Posted by Astro

"On awakening", my first sponsor had me start every day with that reading, from it I learned how to pray and meditate.

Mine too.

We found the Great Reality deep down within us.

Originally Posted by Ago

AA doesn't demand you believe in anyone else's idea of a God, when we have had this conversation in the past, all the definitions you gave me of God were always someone else's definition, not Doorknob's definition.

Exactly Ago! DK You have taken what other people believe is God and said you don't believe in it. What you don't believe in is somebody elses understanding/definition of God. Something to think about DK is we are talking about a God of your understanding. If you don't can't believe in the one of your understanding (other peoples definition of God) then find your own understanding.

The word God still aroused a certain antipathy. When the thought was expressed that there might be a God personal to me this feeling was intensified. I didn't like the idea. I could go for such conceptions as Creative Intelligence, Universal Mind or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the thought of a Czar of the Heavens, however loving His sway might be. I have since talked with scores of men who felt the same way. My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Awesome thread! Thank you!

[Dean62]

I forgot to say in my last post, quotes are from the book Alcoholics Anonymous first edition. Not 2nd 3rd or 4th.

[353]

I agree Nomo...great thread.

and I love your quote by Van Gogh

My Greater or Higher power is found on pg.53 of the BB.

God either is or isn't. God is either everything or nothing.

That's really the only way I can look at it...it's the only choice I have to make. By reviewing my actions and thoughts and being honest on a day to day basis, I'm able to live comfortably in a world where God is everything.

All that means to me really is that my motivation is always driven by self-centered fear and if I'm able to break away from that fear I find that I'm always more serene and peaceful when I'm being of service to others.

That's been true my entire life, all I ever wanted to be was a helpful useful human being. Alcohol and drugs keep me from that. Those things keep me from being the person that makes me happy.

God is everything.....