Living with Rigorous Honesty

[bob_sapp]

Ever feel like it is difficult living in this world as a person who tries to act and communicate with rigorous honesty? It seems like the world right now is a house of cards based on lies, myths, BS, and other falsehoods while the truth is hated and to be kept under wraps (like my life before sobriety). If anyone is familiar with the analogy of Plato's cave (where basically the enlightened person who knows the truth tries to tell it to the people still living in darkness, and they kill him instead of letting his truth offend their bliss in ignorance)... it seems to apply to modern life. I don't have alcohol or drugs to keep me blissfully ignorant anymore, so I am often appalled and offended by the lies are indoctrinated in us through universities, the mass media, and popular belief. If I am to do what is normal for my age, I should be out getting smashed all the time and texting on my iphone what bars we're going to tonight, and pretending to like people or lying to women to get them into bed instead of being honest about what I think and want to them. But for some reason I am sober and trying to live a rigorously honest life, and hoping that by being honest with people and true to myself, I will get where I want to be, instead of being what the world tells me I should be and how I should act. It seems like to some people, rigorous honesty is deeply offensive to who they are as human beings, the same way that a life of lies, BS and deception is offensive to me.

[RufusACanal]

Reality is repugnant and exceedingly hopeless if I allow the world to be the master of my New Life.

[lizw]

Having got sober young Bob, I know what your saying. I wasn't even old enough to be drinking in bars by the time I reached AA at 19. The age to get into bars them was 20 but I had been drinking in them since 15.

We have to live a different life to others because we've got a disease.

I'd say it is similar to having a life threatening allergy to nuts and all your flatmates liked to eat peanut butter and had jars of it through out the house.

But what other people do is entirely their own business, we've only control of ourselves.

I imagin being around all that stuff 24/7 would be hard at times so take it easy on yourself.

:ghug2

[bob_sapp]

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Reality is repugnant and exceedingly hopeless if I allow the world to be the master of my New Life.

So in other words, I have to accept the things I cannot change?

[navysteve]

For me, I have to remember that rigorous honesty is for me, not everyone else. I don't need to worry about the outside world, as long as mine is fine. I get fed up too Bob. I am in the Military and hear things on TV that don't match up to what I know is true, that is just the way it is.

[gravity]

I find that most people are honest about most things. How others choose to live their lives has nothing to do with me unless it affects my loved ones or me in a negative way. I try not to associate with BS'ers or hurtful people. Overall though, I think that people are basically good.

by being honest with people and true to myself, I will get where I want to be

I believe that this will definitely result in a happy and fulfilling life. Anything of true value in my life has come by way of honesty.

What blows me away is not so much people who are dishonest but those who are totally unaware that they are only fooling themselves (delusion) and nobody else. Just like I used to be - denying, rationalizing, blaming, etc.

[sugErspun]

Bob, I have noticed a lot of what you describe above...and Plato's analogy is as relevant today as it was. It's like describing green to someone who cannot see - impossible, and it's good for me to know it's impossible.

But I have witnessed, in my AA fellows moreso than my non-AA friends - that there can be this 'fight' and what I consider over-concern with the state of the nation, economy....though it is not my experience as of yet. I think it is a form of grieving. Resentment is so warm, and nice to entertain and feels like a really good place.

But we know where it gets us.

I think you are better off in the long run, I realize there isn't much condolence in saying that - but the biggest truths are not easy...and a life worth living is the same.

I don't know if you have to accept the things you cannot change so much as the other part: "know the difference".

[bugsworth]

I am sorry to butt in but I love the theory of "allegory of the cave" by Plato.

It is distorted truth seen by shadows only...fortunately our reality does not need to be so altered. The truth is not only what you see but how you perceive it. Just my 2 cents.

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by bob_sapp

If anyone is familiar with the analogy of Plato's cave

When John Lennon sang "watching shadows on the wall" he was refering to Plato's cave.

There are 3 things that I try convey to those who are still watching shadows;

1. Humility has nothing to do with humiliation. It is "..a clear recognition of what and who we really are..." (12&12 page 58)

2. Humility is "the foundation principle of each of AA's 12 steps"
(12&12 page 70)

3. Humility is "the key to the entire program" (12&12 page 153)

[bugsworth]

What does the allegory have to do with humility? Serious question?

[Tazman53]

Steve said:

For me, I have to remember that rigorous honesty is for me, not everyone else. I don't need to worry about the outside world, as long as mine is fine.

I concur with Steve, the only one I am always BRUTALLY honest with and need to be is me.

Today I do not lie to people, but I avoid being BRUTALLY honest with others unless it is for thier own good or needed.

If someone is simply being a jerk and the only purpose it would serve by me pointiing that out is to hurt them or critisize them then I go by what my mother taught me "If you have nothing nice to say, then say nothing at all."

Now if someone ask me a question about them, I will answer it honestly, but if the answer may be hurtful to them then I will do so tactfully. Ask me a question about some one else....... I may not answer at all depending upon what is asked and why.

I do not concern myself with what others feel about me or others lies, that is thier problem and not of my concern the vast majority of the time.

[Dean62]

Bob your an inspiration to me. I was unable to do what you are doing at your age. You give me hope.

As I clean my side of the street I have found that the truth really does set me free. I see and agree with everything you have said. I'm grateful today I don't feel I have to be a part of it. My racing mind started to quite down when I pulled my head out of the sand.

[sugErspun]

Originally Posted by bugsworth

What does the allegory have to do with humility? Serious question?

I think there comes a certain humility to realize that "I" am the one in the cave. That everyone is in a different part of the process (just seeing shadows, then seeing the source - eventually leading to seeing the sun).

Just my take on it of course, but it is very similair to recognizing my attachment to what I "think" I know. All the while - I am still in the cave to some degree or another. The recognition of this is humility.

I borrowed this from a discussion board:

"It is arrogant to believe that the complete opening of the cave is ever attainable, but that is the purpose of the struggle. The pain and the struggle present a sacrifice which the person wishing to come to the end of the cave must make. Humility is also essential for any progress to be made. At every point reached and every new truth revealed the individual traveler will think they are much wiser than they used to be, humility is the only thing which will push them on. As for all of the paintings on the walls of the cave, Plato thought art was the worst thing anyone could pursue because it made the illusions comfortable and beautiful."

Well put I think.

[jlo34]

"To thine own self be true..."

"What others think about me is none of my business."

I can swallow the top one much easier than the bottom one. My kids are 6 and 12 and as they are growing up and seeing that "life isn't always fair", I make sure that they understand that they need to be true to themselves. I've also been trying to teach them about perception. It's funny, my ex-husband is in recovery (been sober for many years) and I can point out an all out lie, he doesn't see it as a lie, because somehow he made it HIS truth. That's perception.

A great example is politics. I don't believe a word that comes out of a politician's mouth, especially one who is "up there". Why, because time after time they get caught in lies. Knowing that, I choose not to hang out with politicians or persons who blatently lie.

I can't compare myself to others...unless I'm critiquing myself. I can't say, well hey, at least I'm better than so-and-so....that's not my job. My job is to identify MY flaws and work on them. Then to be an example for those around me. Not always an easy job. It's my HP's job to judge...not mine.

Great topic,
Jen

[bugsworth]

Thanks Sug...interesting perspective.

[ananda]

The hamlet quote is

To thine own self be true and it follows as the day the night thou can not then be false to any man


And what I ask myself in my honesty with others...is it true and is it HELPFUL....the last part changes alot of what i will share with others.

[mtnmagic]

I get so much out of reading posts in this 12 step forum. I want to thank you all for that. At 26 days, I'm no where near to being able to particpate with any real knowledge, heck there is a lot I don't even understand, but I read and thank you for sharing. The people in my AA group believe, it gets better and better. Right now I believe that they believe, and it will also become clearer for me in time. Thanks again.

mtnmagic