Message Boards and Forums Directory
ALCOHOL ADDICTION
12 STEPS
Discuss and learn more about these
following steps for AA
CHAT MEETINGS
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
NARCOTICS ADDICTION
12 STEPS
Discuss and learn more about these
following steps for NA

Go Back   SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Alcoholism Information > Alcoholism-12 Step Support
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room [2]


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2008, 01:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
digderidoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 362
Standing at the edge looking at step1

I have been attending AA since January, i am now 4 1/2 months sober. My craving and desire to drink has gone, this has been the most surprising and empowering things that has happened to me.

I have had a sponsor since June, with the intent of working the steps.

Throughout this period i have felt that i have got step 1 and 2, thinking it's step 3 i struggle with.

The reality is i haven't got step 1. I know i am powerless over alcohol, but as regards my life being unmanageable is what i have an issue with.

This part of step 1 for me leads to think about whether i really need an AA program to work, whether i actually want to go through the steps.

Maybe i can remain sober, by carrying on the way i am. I am happy, i am loving life, i have put things into place that has turned my life around over the last year.

I have an issue as to whether i want to take that journey of going through the steps. I guess the main issue i have is the spiritual side to the program. There are many steps that speak of God, 6 i think. Do i really need God, albeit of my own understanding, in my life? The reality is that at the moment i do not.

I have been looking into the Oxford Group over the last few days and come to realise that these steps have been taken directly from this group. Making amense, taking an inventory, handing your will over to God on a daily basis, even sharing in meetings, are taken from the Oxford Group.

This leads me to think after i have been brought up in a religious way, do i really want to adopt a program that has it's foundings in religion?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. It is not my intention to start a thread debating God or debating the AA, but i would be interested to hear from anyone who experienced similar issues themselves.

Paul
digderidoo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 01:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
problem with authority
 
FightingIrish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ny
Posts: 868
The power greater than myself is exactly that...a power greater than myself, no more, no less. Has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

There are lots of powers greater than myself:

-a roomful of people who have recovered from alcoholism...maybe they can teach me a few things

-the possibilities I don't see (that taking this action which seems unintuitive is going to help me)

-the fact that there is knowledge beyond that which I think I know

-the hope that I can recover even though I don't think it's possible

The only thing about my higher power that has to do with God is that I am not God.

M
__________________
"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness."
FightingIrish is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
There is no spiritual side of the porgram. It is all spiritual, but if you want to understand the first step, I would suggest you read page 30 of the Big Book.

Quote:
I know i am powerless over alcohol, but as regards my life being unmanageable is what i have an issue with.
To me, the two go together. If I am powerless over alcohol, and have drank too much, it makes my life unmanageable.
Quote:
Maybe i can remain sober, by carrying on the way i am. I am happy, i am loving life, i have put things into place that has turned my life around over the last year.
Some people are just problem drinkers. I don't say that to be offensive. But many go through a phase where they drink or experiment with drugs.

Quote:
I have been looking into the Oxford Group over the last few days and come to realise that these steps have been taken directly from this group. Making amense, taking an inventory, handing your will over to God on a daily basis, even sharing in meetings, are taken from the Oxford Group.
Very true. Not all ideas from religions are bad. We got the calendar from religion too, holidays, education etc...

Quote:
This leads me to think after i have been brought up in a religious way, do i really want to adopt a program that has it's foundings in religion?
Everything in Western culture goes back to religion. Even the philosophy of writers like John Locke all go back to religion.

I had to get off the debate about religion when I came to AA. I am not religious today at all.
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition

Last edited by CarolD; 10-19-2008 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Sorry...my mistake No edit required
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 06:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
AW2486's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by digderidoo View Post
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Just a suggestion.. there is a whole chapter in the Big Book devoted to God and spirituality .. We Agnostics.. It deals with a lot of the arguments we have with this issue. I would suggest you read it and have an open mind and give yourself a chance to replace old idea's with new ones.

As far as the second part of step one.. for me its simple. I could not manage my life being a drunk. No money, wet the bed, two day hangovers.. I could go on and on. Its the things that happened in my life due to drinking. When I got sober my life almost automatically got manageable, because I stopped drinking I stopped having two day hangovers, no longer wet the bed, and I showed up for work.

I wish you the best.

Andy
AW2486 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 06:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
Ago
Rawr!!!!!!
 
Ago's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Marin County
Posts: 2,029
this is just for me, but the twelve steps allow me to be "comfortable in my own skin" after I quit drinking, I can "put the plug in the jug" just by attending meetings, but recently, I went a few years without attending meetings or working with newcomers, checking with a sponsor in short I stopped "working the program"

within maybe 6 months I was batsh1t crazy and didn't even realize it, I tried "fixing myself" with relationships, and it wasn't until that didn't work I began realizing how much pain I was in and ultimately after maybe 2 years, maybe 2.5 years, I drank.

For me, All I need to do is look at my life before I got to AA to realize when it came to running my own life I'm not "manager material"...I'm really not, I look at things like my relations with others, whether I am truly happy, my relationships (the big give-away), I mean really look at my life, but if I turn it over and do the next right thing, and don't try to run the show, my life gets really good.

I've had "drinking bottoms" but I have to say a "sober bottom" was all told, much more painful, i tried drinking for maybe 6 months, and it didn't "work", it didn't help.

I do the steps to "feel better", because after having long term sobriety, and long term "drinking" both under my belt, for me, I get more relief and feel better by working the steps then I do from drinking, and for me "living sober" without the steps eventually life turns into a "living hell"....it's a slow process, much like a frog being in a pot of water on the stove when it's turned on, the frog will just sit there and cook to death because the water temperature changes gradually, that's what life is like for me sober after "the pink cloud" wears off without the ongoing relief the steps bring me.

As far as the whole "god" thing, and the "christian based program" as a Californian that moved to Texas, that was regularly derided for "not being Christian" to actually having the kids at school beat me up, and even the teachers "spank me" while telling me if I was a christian this wouldn't be happening, put such a taste of of anti-Christianity in me that it was indescribable....today, after working the steps, it's been relieved, I am still VERY much a "non christian" but the truth is many of my closest friends in the program are devout Christians, and the funny thing is, when they speak about "god" I know what they mean, our "gods" couldn't be more different, I am much more "Buddhist/Taoist based, we are saying the same thing in most cases, just using different language.vehicles to get there.

Friday night, I was at a meeting, and the speakers topic was "what is your concept of God?"

So I shared, "the beautiful thing about AA is my concept of God is none of your business, I get to have my OWN concept of God, whether it be Group of Drunks, Good Orderly Direction, whatever, but my God is My Business, not anyone else's, and AA isn't the Oxford group, by the grace of God (haha) AA number 100 fought tooth and nail to have "God as we understood him" put in the steps.

The reason I shared that was when I showed up to the rooms, my aversion and antipathy to the very word God, was...nearly physical in it's response, and in the Big Book, in "we agnostics, where it describes the aversion many of us had to organized religion, described me to a "T", I was plumb disgusted with all the horrible things and all the wars all done in "God's Name".

So, when I was new, if anyone would have tried to shove "the God concept" down my throat I would have been gone, what I was told was, don't worry about it, take what you need and leave the rest, when you get to step 3 with a sponsor you can worry about it then, and by the time I got to step 3 with my sponsor, it was no longer an issue.

Today, I have no problem with the concept of "God" although i do state at group level "my god doesn't have a willy" sometimes just to stir the pot a bit, and for me, I don't believe in an "otherness" or a "guiding intelligence" my God is my own, and my own business, and your God is your own business, I have argued with people about everything, I mean EVERYTHING in AA except God, and the truth is, the word or the concept doesn't bother me any more, the steps need a "power greater then yourself" to work, and here's the kicker for me:

The steps are a radio for talking to God...you do them and they will manufacture a spiritual experience, which is defined by the Big Book as "The terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism"

seemingly confusing language from someone that supposedly "doesn't believe in God" huh?

Chuck C in the book "A New Pair of Glasses" has about the closest concept I have seen to "a God of my understanding" that I've seen, yet he uses christian based language to describe his God...anyway, the point I am trying to make is, Why don't you use your own concept of God?

I did, and it worked, and what the hell, if you are going to be sober anyway, and have all this spare time, why not try the steps just for the hell of it?


Here I am going to move strictly into opinion, if anything after this offends anyone, I am sorry, but up front, it's just my opinion.

I can usually tell within moments of meeting someone if they have worked the steps and "have a good program". They are calmer, seem more at ease, and more content with themselves, take more personal responsibility for their actions, and they change.

I ran into a friend I haven't seen in three years the other night at a meeting, and to quote Bill W, "He stood there, fresh-skinned and glowing. There was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different." His very being shouted this was a man with an answer. It was bizarre, I have known this man for over thirty years yet didn't know the man standing in front of me. The peace and love in his eyes was astounding.

Read "Bill's Story" when Ebby Thatcher comes to visit him even, "

Quote:
With ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory. To Christ I conceded the certa inty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching—most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.

The wars which had been fought, the burnings and chicanery that religious dispute had facilitated, made me sick. I honestly doubted whether, on balance, the religions of mankind had done any good. Judging from what I had seen in Europe and since, the po wer of God in human affairs was negligible, the Brotherhood of Man a grim jest. If there was a Devil, he seemed the Boss Universal, and he certainly had me.

Despite the living example of my friend there remained in me the vestiges of my old prejudice. The word God still aroused a certain antipathy. When the thought was expressed that there might be a God personal to me this feeling was intensified. I didn' t like the idea. I could go for such conceptions as Creative Intelligence, Universal Mind or Spirit of Nature but I resisted the thought of a Czar of the Heavens, however loving His sway might be. I have since talked with scores of men who felt the same way.

My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, " Why don't you choose your own conception of God? " That statement hit me hard. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last.

It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater than myself. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could start from that point. Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would!
When I work the steps, I get the benefits, and they are VAST. When I don't drink, I don't get drunk, but still have a noisy brain.

I hope I made sense and didn't offend anyone, this is just my experience with the steps and this thread struck a chord with me.
__________________
If you go back to drinking and you haven’t
written a Fourth Step inventory, don’t say that you tried A.A. and it failed, because you never tried A.A.

Last edited by Ago; 10-19-2008 at 06:48 PM.
Ago is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
where the light is
 
gravity's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,408
Hi Paul,

I am responding to your statements with my own, personal experience. What you have accomplished speaks for itself and my comments are not meant to devalue it in any way. Just a different perspective from another guy who is relatively new to sobriety and AA.

Quote:
The reality is i haven't got step 1. I know i am powerless over alcohol, but as regards my life being unmanageable is what i have an issue with.
Powerless over alcohol refers to the mental obsession (sickness) that takes me to that first drink. Then the uncontrollable craving kicks in. After 25 years of out of control, blackout drinking and swearing off alcohol over and over again, I can’t argue that I have power over alcohol.

I look back at where I was last December. Family, career, and mental health in serious jeopardy. Completely obsessed with drinking. My life was unmanageable. I can’t gloss it over and pretend it was no big deal. I would have lost everything important to me if I continued drinking.

Quote:
Maybe i can remain sober, by carrying on the way i am. I am happy, i am loving life, i have put things into place that has turned my life around over the last year.
I feel like this when everything is going well for me. But what about when my sobriety is truly tested? Since I joined AA, I lost my aunt and young cousin. A very close relative is going through a very stressful period in her life (involves alcohol, physical abuse, children in care). I also reached the highest point in my career so far. There were many more highs and lows, what would have been temptations or excuses to drink in the past. I did not drink and most of the time I did not want to drink. I faced these situations in a responsible, helpful manner.

We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.” I am starting to experience this and it is amazing. Something I have not felt since I was 15 years old, before I started drinking.

Do you believe that alcohol is a non-issue for you? You are now done drinking, can forget about it and move on? You absolutely will not use alcohol to deal with the difficulties in life? I am not being sarcastic; my sister was able to do this after several years of blackout drinking. She did not need AA or any other program.

Quote:
The main issue i have is the spiritual side to the program.
A simple, sincere prayer in the morning and another at night. Reading spiritual books, learning. Trying to be kind, helpful, responsible, grateful. That’s my spiritual “program”. Perhaps instead of looking at what is wrong with the spiritual aspect of AA, look at how you can make it work for you?

I look back at my 10 months of sobriety, no white-knuckling even through the darkest days. Was it all me? My self-will alone? For me, the answer is self-evident. A power greater than myself.


Whether you move forward with AA or not is truly a personal decision. It may in fact not be the right program for you. Whatever you decide, I do wish you the best.

Don




BB quote from the 1st edition of the BB
gravity is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 07:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
 
laurie6781's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 2,976
One of the things that helped me IMMENSELY with Step 1 and has helped others since was for me to do a 'time line' of my drinking and using.

Going back as far as I could remember to when I first started and how it progressed and what happened when I drank and/or used.

After doing that, and then going back and reading it, not only could I see the progression, but was able to see how my life was just continuing downhill everytime I drank. That gave me the 'unmanageable' part.

This is what I had to do for me to make me 'see' that alcohol had become my MASTER. That my whole life had come to revolve around Alcohol. To me that was NOT managing my life.

Became much easier than to Accept Step 1 to the very core of my being. It was then and only then that I could move on to step 2, knowing my foundation was now in concrete and not sand.

Hope that helps a bit.

Love and hugs,
__________________


God Bless You All As You Trudge The Road
Of Happy Destiny (especially when you
trudgin thru alligators up to your butt)
laurie6781 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2008, 09:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
God's Kid
 
lizw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
For me the problem I had with step 1 was I was not entirely convinced my problems were due to drinking/alcohol.

I would tell anyone who would listen how unmanagable my life was, but was I powerless over alcohol? Um, dunno.

1 sober year later, I drunk the day after going to an AA meeting and had become obsessed with alcohol a few days prior.

Following that, I understood what the term powerless over alcohol meant and could look back over my drinking career and identify other times when I hadn't meant to get drunk or not go home.
__________________
....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
lizw is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 12:56 AM   #9 (permalink)
Is my work solid so far?
 
bballdad's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albemarle,N.C.
Posts: 2,024
If, when you honestly want to, you
find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you
have little control over the amount you take, you are
probably alcoholic.
(ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, first ed.)

if that be the case,our life is unmanageable too
if we cannot stay sober,there is the un-manageability
booze is managing it for me
I could not do the usual things in life because of my drinking
__________________
Faith should not stand in the wisdom of men,but in the Power of God
bballdad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 01:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
bodychek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 67
My alcoholic brain makes me question whether I am an alcoholic, AA, meetings, and the 12 steps EVERY DAY. If I have admitted that I have a drinking problem and I cannot manage my drinking, and I do things I didn't want to do, and I caused wreckage, and I hurt my family and other people, and ... (you get my point) then it seems to me that my life is unmanageable. When I got to AA, I didn't lose everything nor did ever get a DUI nor was I ever arrested. I never blacked out and I did not drink all day. Even though I was an athiest and anti-religion, I seemed to believe in a God because I often begged him/it to take my life and end my misery. AA and the 12 steps has given me recovery and a new life. I learned that my brain could manipulate me and always make an excuse why I wasn't an alcoholic and why I didn't need AA. This is my unmanageability. My illness is in my brain.

For me, Step 1 is about letting go of control. I can do things in my life to make me think that I am managing it. I also think that I could probably go have 1 or 2 beers and be ok. I acknowledge these thoughts as ammunition from a sick mind. As for AA and the 12 steps I figure it's working thus far so why question it?

I suggest you acknowledge your thoughts about quitting attending AA and stopping your 12 steps but tell yourself that your brain is broken and use these thoughts as the reason to stay in AA and go through the 12 steps. If, after you honestly and diligently go through the 12 steps with a sponsor you see no reason to continue then make a choice then. Working the 12 steps won't kill you, your alcoholic brain might...
bodychek is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 03:31 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
digderidoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 362
Thanks for the replies so far, i am reading them with interest.

One thing i want to pick up on which a few have said, is with regards to the unmanageable part of step 1.

Some have suggested they looked at it, because they knew their life became unmanageable when they drank, their life fell apart. This was the same with me.

I have been told though that it means your life is unmanageable now, whilst not drinking. That it is the underlying thoughts, thinking and feelings of an alcoholic that is unmanageable, that this is what made us drink, rather than the unmanageability of life whilst drinking.

Any thoughts?
digderidoo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 03:53 AM   #12 (permalink)
1 bite&all resistance crumbles
 
Cathy31's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,046
Paul
I liked your post - it reminds me of the insanity of my disease.

You got all this stuff from doing part of aa...you are bound to get even MORE - more joy, serenity, longevity of your sobriety etc...but you are considering not...without really anything to lose...


My life is also not unmanageable NOW...but it would be if I drank again...if I did not keep working the program (includng the steps) I would pick up a drink again...and for me to drink is to die.

It just seems like such a no brainer, but moreover, I know from experience that doing the steps has given me such gifts emotionally and spiritually it seems like utter madness not to do it.

What do you have to lose? Why nitpick. Just do it. You've got a lot so far right? You want more - do it. You want to possibly lose it all - don't do it and throw in the towel altogether.

I hope you do the right thing. Thank you for your post and reminder.

Cathy31
x
__________________
Sober since 22nd March 2006 by the Grace of God and the Programs & Fellowship of AA and NA

:ghug Life is Beautiful!
Fake it til you make it... :atv
Cathy31 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 04:20 AM   #13 (permalink)
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,288
Paul I had the exact same issue, being powerless over alcohol I could easily admit, I knew without a doubt to my very core that if I put one drink in me any control I had was lost, in the end alcohol owned me!

Quote:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
I was 3 months sober before someone (my new sponsor) pointed out to me that step one was past tense, not present tense!!!

Do not get me wrong I still know that the second I have a drink of alcohol that I lose every bit of power I have over alcohol, that part like you, I never had a problem fully accepting, the unmanagabilty I had a very hard time with, you see I still had a job and a drivers license.......... well in looking back on my life a job and a drivers license was all I had managed to not give away, once sober for a while I was able to honestly look back on my life and see just how really unmanagable my life was while I was drinking.

I had started to drink at work on occasion, this would have led me to losing my job. My wife in the end already had a place set up to move her and the kids to, so I was not able to manage to keep my wife and kids in my life. I had no idea how to pay bills or taxes and I know if I was drinking I could not have done those things on my own. I could not manage to not drink and drive, if I was driving, I was drinking, and if I had gotten pulled over I would have been unable to manage to keep my license.

When it comes to step one, it is important that I keep in mind that it is past tense, not this very instant! In other words for me I look at step one this way:

If I am drinking I have absolutely no control over alcohol and if I am drinking I am unable to manage my life!!!

If I am not drinking I do with the help of my HP have a degree of control over alcohol and my life.

Step one for me is past tense.

One VERY important note on this though, I have to be beyond the mental obsession for alcohol before I can honestly have fully taken step one! If I am still obsessing over a drink, I still remain powerless over alcohol and my life is still unmanagable because I am not thinking straight if I am thinking about drinking!

This is why steps 2 & 3 were so important, I had to believe that there was some power greater then me that could help restore my insane obsession for alcohol to that of sanity where I no longer obsessed for alcohol. In order for steps 1 & 2 to really start to have any real long lasting effects I had to make a decision to turn my will and my life over to the CARE of a God aka Higher Power that I understood!

I bolded the words decision & CARE because those are the 2 words when first looking at this step I was unable to see for some reason, what I really had to ask myself when taking this step was I willing to make a decision turn my will and my life over to the CARE of a God aka Higher Power that I understood? Well I was willing to turn myself over to the CARE of a Power greater then me.

Now here is what I have learned so far, I have learned that the more steps I took the more powerful the prior steps have become. I have learned since I finished taking all the steps that as I continue to apply ALL of the steps to ALL aspects of my life, thiings keep getting better in my life and when I do have problem small or large I am able to work through them rather then even think about drinking through them.
__________________
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB

Follow directions!

Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006

Sober today thanks to AA
Tazman53 is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 04:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,288
Quote:
I have been told though that it means your life is unmanageable now, whilst not drinking. That it is the underlying thoughts, thinking and feelings of an alcoholic that is unmanageable, that this is what made us drink, rather than the unmanageability of life whilst drinking.
Paul for some their life remains totally unmanagable even though they have quit drinking, for others, life does become a bit more managable, I was one of those, a certain degree of managability did re-enter my life after a while of not drinking, I was unaware until I had been sober longer and continued working the steps how much better I was able to manage my life. I am still improving my ability to manage my life even after working all of the steps and being 2 years sober.

The primary differences I see in my managabilty is that since I am managing my life under the care & guidance of my HP, I am far less stressed, I am not overwhelmed at times, with the guidance and care of my HP I am able to see more clearly actions that need to be taken or avoided in my life...... this has led me to peace in my life, I no longer panic when things go wrong because I am not alone! I have the guidance of a caring HP and the Experience of others in the fellowship who have been through the same things I am facing.
__________________
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB

Follow directions!

Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006

Sober today thanks to AA
Tazman53 is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 06:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
I have been told though that it means your life is unmanageable now, whilst not drinking. That it is the underlying thoughts, thinking and feelings of an alcoholic that is unmanageable, that this is what made us drink, rather than the unmanageability of life whilst drinking.
That is someone's experience that they are projecting onto you. My experience is that my life was still unmanageable without alcohol. But in the step they use the word had. It is a past tense. Alcohol made our lives unmanageable.

My life is unmanageable without the steps in place. I have seen many get caught up in the intellectualization of the steps. I found that to make a solid start all I needed to know was that I could not drink under any and all circumstances and that it made my life hell. STep one tells me the problem ( which is me) Step 2 tells me the solution ( need a higher power) steps 3 thru 11 deliver me at a spiritual awakening (step 12) which allows me to think and act in a different way
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 07:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
RufusACanal's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,872
"Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks - drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

On the other hand - and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand - once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules."

Paul,

You do not have to be an advocate of a spiritual program of recovery to get sober, but from your writings you have succeeded in starting a New Life, free from bondage and the idea today is to not only maintain what you have found but to expand on it. If you are like us and I think you are, you know that there comes a certain peace after a spree when the body returns to health and the mind clears. Doubt immediately returns as to whether there was any problem to begin with, thereby setting in motion the next future drinking event.

"Men have cried out to me in sincere and despairing appeal: "Doctor, I cannot go on like this! I have everything to live for! I must stop, but I cannot! You must help me!"

Faced with this problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must sometimes feel his own inadequacy. Although he gives all that is in him, it often is not enough. One feels that something more than human power is needed to produce the essential psychic change. Though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort is perhaps considerable, we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon the problem as a whole. Many types do not respond to the ordinary psychological approach."

Your psychic change is progressing; you have seen the light of recovery, yet in short order you would return to your own will to map a future uncertain. Using your will once again, you would return to mastering the world via your own power; need you more lessons in pain and suffering?

Your recognition of God is not necessary today, but using your power to direct your own life now will ultimately, I believe lead you back to the insanity of active use. So what is the answer? A power greater than you can be the love of the fellowship as an example; the Steps of a New Life have opened door to clarity for you and that direction can also serve as a greater power for now. Your Sponsor, though human can be a greater power as you learn to build your own personal understand of what a greater power is. Faith in the unseen does not need your approval to work. Is not love unseen until applied by another living creature?

If I may, believe today that others believe in the unseen that lifts us to do for others who cannot do for themselves. I love you Paul and my faith in your mighty beginning of recovery is returned to you to lift you through the moments of doubt. I am but a man, but what has grown in me can grow in you and as the months and years pass and your healing continues, the good in you will also grow and flourish. I ask you only to be open to life and please do not stop before the miracle has a chance to complete itself in your life.

I believe my friend that you are here in life today to not only live free, but to offer the same to others in your time. Use this wonderful opportunity of freedom from bondage to offer your hand to others as you continue to grow and learn; I know you can and I believe in your continued courage to succeed.

Ron
__________________
"Weather forecast for tonight: dark. Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning."


George Carlin

Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
RufusACanal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 07:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
digderidoo's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazman53
Quote:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
I was 3 months sober before someone (my new sponsor) pointed out to me that step one was past tense, not present tense!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navysteve
That is someone's experience that they are projecting onto you. My experience is that my life was still unmanageable without alcohol. But in the step they use the word had. It is a past tense. Alcohol made our lives unmanageable.
Thank you!!!
digderidoo is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 12:18 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
RufusACanal's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,872
My life was unmanageable before I drank alcoholically and some unmanageability remains to this day. With continued work through the Steps I am healing, but I realize that I will always need to be vigilant.
__________________
"Weather forecast for tonight: dark. Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning."


George Carlin

Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
RufusACanal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 02:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
God's Kid
 
lizw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
For me, my life is unmanageable by me. I can't manage my own life, trying to manage my life leads me back to drinking, hence I found this out after drinking while attending AA. Things weren't going 'my way' or how I thought 'they should' so I became resentful and ended up drinking.

This old guy round the meetings I go to and tells this analogy.
"Recovery is like going on a boat trip, except when I turn up at the dock (with all my luggage) to board the boat, God is at the helm, looks at me and says, “What have you got all that luggage for? You don’t need it. Chuck it a way and then go get up the back of the boat, and enjoy the trip. I’m the one sailing....”
__________________
....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
lizw is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2008, 02:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
Thumper
 
sugErspun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,604
Didge - this is just my opinion.

I don't know if you have heard the term "Step 1 reservations" before - but I hear it all the time. Most often from AA members who just raced through the steps and didn't have a step 1 experience, inevitably they drank (usually after a long time sober, 5 years plus) and are baffled as to why. I think you are asking the right questions. If you have any reservations about step 1 - don't continue the steps.

For me, step 1 and the definition of alcoholism in the big book - led me to look at my life, past - look back at my life.

Did I relate to this 'craving' that is outlined in the Dr's opinion? - Yes I did. It states there that this 'craving' never occurs in the average temperate drinker - so #1 - I am not the average temperate drinker.

Did I ever swear off, and really mean it - just to drink again? Yes I did..the mental obsession has hit me when it could be least expected. This tells me that I am going to drink again, period. There is nothing I can do to keep me sober - I have tried and failed.

Unmanageability - does drinking work for me? Can I live a happy, productive life and drink alcohol?....Considering that I don't know when I will stop once I start - I would have to say no. Can I control my emotional nature? Can I control taking that first drink (can I just not drink, therefore never have the craving kick in)? Based on my life - I can't do it.

So - I am gonna drink again - and when I start, I will not stop until an outside force intervenes. I don't want to drink because of the pain it has caused me.

Step one was both awful and relieving..I finally knew what was wrong, but I also admitted I was pretty much scr3wed. Then a solution was offered.


Our literature says that if you have any doubts - to leave alcohol alone for a year. Does that seem like a daunting task?

Thank you for your post didg...I am glad you are asking questions.
__________________
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." - Soren Kierkegaard
sugErspun is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:44 AM.


 

© 2007 SoberRecovery, LLC.
A proud member of the SoberRecovery® Network of Addiction and Recovery Websites

The SoberRecovery Forums are operated under a grant from The Mulligan Group


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 1184 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 1190 1191 1192 1193 1194 1195 1196 1197 1198 1199 1200 1201 1202 1203 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 1254 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 1317 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 1339 1340 1341 1342 1343 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 1365 1366 1367 1368 1369 1370 1371 1372 1373 1374 1375 1376 1377 1378 1379 1380 1381 1382 1383 1384 1385 1386 1387 1388 1389 1390 1391 1392 1393 1394 1395 1396 1397 1398 1399 1400 1401 1402 1403 1404 1405 1406 1407 1408 1409 1410 1411 1412 1413 1414 1415 1416 1417 1418 1419 1420 1421 1422 1423 1424 1425 1426 1427 1428 1429 1430 1431 1432 1433 1434 1435 1436 1437 1438 1439 1440 1441 1442 1443 1444 1445 1446 1447 1448 1449 1450 1451 1452 1453 1454 1455 1456 1457 1458 1459 1460 1461 1462 1463 1464 1465 1466 1467 1468 1469 1470 1471 1472 1473 1474 1475 1476 1477 1478 1479 1480 1481 1482 1483 1484 1485 1486 1487 1488 1489 1490 1491 1492 1493 1494 1495 1496 1497 1498 1499 1500 1501 1502 1503 1504 1505 1506 1507 1508 1509 1510 1511 1512 1513 1514 1515 1516 1517 1518 1519 1520 1521 1522 1523 1524 1525 1526 1527 1528 1529 1530 1531 1532 1533 1534 1535 1536 1537 1538 1539 1540 1541 1542 1543 1544 1545 1546 1547 1548 1549 1550 1551 1552 1553 1554 1555 1556 1557 1558 1559 1560 1561 1562 1563 1564 1565 1566 1567 1568 1569 1570 1571 1572 1573 1574 1575 1576 1577 1578 1579 1580 1581 1582 1583 1584 1585 1586 1587 1588 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 1594 1595 1596 1597 1598 1599 1600 1601 1602 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1608 1609 1610 1611 1612 1613 1614 1615 1616 1617 1618 1619 1620 1621 1622 1623 1624 1625 1626 1627 1628 1629 1630 1631 1632 1633 1634 1635 1636 1637 1638 1639 1640 1641 1642 1643 1644 1645 1646 1647 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 1653 1654 1655 1656 1657 1658 1659 1660 1661 1662 1663 1664 1665 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 1677 1678 1679 1680 1681 1682 1683 1684 1685 1686 1687 1688 1689 1690 1691 1692 1693 1694 1695 1696 1697 1698 1699 1700 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 1706 1707 1708 1709 1710 1711 1712 1713 1714 1715 1716 1717 1718 1719 1720 1721 1722 1723 1724 1725 1726 1727 1728 1729 1730 1731 1732 1733 1734 1735 1736 1737 1738 1739 1740 1741 1742 1743 1744 1745 1746 1747 1748 1749 1750 1751 1752 1753 1754 1755 1756 1757 1758 1759 1760 1761 1762 1763 1764 1765 1766 1767 1768 1769 1770 1771 1772 1773 1774 1775 1776 1777 1778 1779 1780 1781 1782 1783 1784 1785 1786 1787 1788 1789 1790 1791 1792 1793 1794 1795 1796 1797 1798 1799 1800 1801 1802 1803 1804 1805 1806 1807 1808 1809 1810 1811 1812 1813 1814 1815 1816 1817 1818 1819 1820 1821 1822 1823 1824 1825 1826 1827 1828 1829 1830 1831 1832 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847 1848 1849 1850 1851 1852 1853 1854 1855 1856 1857 1858 1859 1860 1861 1862 1863 1864 1865 1866 1867 1868 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 1919 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 2030 2031 2032 2033 2034 2035 2036 2037 2038 2039 2040 2041 2042 2043 2044 2045 2046 2047 2048 2049 2050 2051 2052 2053 2054 2055 2056 2057 2058 2059 2060 2061 2062 2063 2064 2065 2066 2067 2068 2069 2070 2071 2072 2073