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| | #1 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK
Posts: 362
| Standing at the edge looking at step1
I have been attending AA since January, i am now 4 1/2 months sober. My craving and desire to drink has gone, this has been the most surprising and empowering things that has happened to me. I have had a sponsor since June, with the intent of working the steps. Throughout this period i have felt that i have got step 1 and 2, thinking it's step 3 i struggle with. The reality is i haven't got step 1. I know i am powerless over alcohol, but as regards my life being unmanageable is what i have an issue with. This part of step 1 for me leads to think about whether i really need an AA program to work, whether i actually want to go through the steps. Maybe i can remain sober, by carrying on the way i am. I am happy, i am loving life, i have put things into place that has turned my life around over the last year. I have an issue as to whether i want to take that journey of going through the steps. I guess the main issue i have is the spiritual side to the program. There are many steps that speak of God, 6 i think. Do i really need God, albeit of my own understanding, in my life? The reality is that at the moment i do not. I have been looking into the Oxford Group over the last few days and come to realise that these steps have been taken directly from this group. Making amense, taking an inventory, handing your will over to God on a daily basis, even sharing in meetings, are taken from the Oxford Group. This leads me to think after i have been brought up in a religious way, do i really want to adopt a program that has it's foundings in religion? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. It is not my intention to start a thread debating God or debating the AA, but i would be interested to hear from anyone who experienced similar issues themselves. Paul |
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| | #2 (permalink) |
| problem with authority Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: ny
Posts: 868
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The power greater than myself is exactly that...a power greater than myself, no more, no less. Has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. There are lots of powers greater than myself: -a roomful of people who have recovered from alcoholism...maybe they can teach me a few things -the possibilities I don't see (that taking this action which seems unintuitive is going to help me) -the fact that there is knowledge beyond that which I think I know -the hope that I can recover even though I don't think it's possible The only thing about my higher power that has to do with God is that I am not God. M
__________________ "Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." |
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| | #3 (permalink) | ||||
| Member |
There is no spiritual side of the porgram. It is all spiritual, but if you want to understand the first step, I would suggest you read page 30 of the Big Book. Quote:
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I had to get off the debate about religion when I came to AA. I am not religious today at all.
__________________ No rhetoric Just results All Big Book quotes are from first edition Last edited by CarolD; 10-19-2008 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Sorry...my mistake No edit required | ||||
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| | #4 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 492
| Just a suggestion.. there is a whole chapter in the Big Book devoted to God and spirituality .. We Agnostics.. It deals with a lot of the arguments we have with this issue. I would suggest you read it and have an open mind and give yourself a chance to replace old idea's with new ones. As far as the second part of step one.. for me its simple. I could not manage my life being a drunk. No money, wet the bed, two day hangovers.. I could go on and on. Its the things that happened in my life due to drinking. When I got sober my life almost automatically got manageable, because I stopped drinking I stopped having two day hangovers, no longer wet the bed, and I showed up for work. I wish you the best. Andy |
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| | #5 (permalink) | |
| Rawr!!!!!! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Marin County
Posts: 2,029
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this is just for me, but the twelve steps allow me to be "comfortable in my own skin" after I quit drinking, I can "put the plug in the jug" just by attending meetings, but recently, I went a few years without attending meetings or working with newcomers, checking with a sponsor in short I stopped "working the program" within maybe 6 months I was batsh1t crazy and didn't even realize it, I tried "fixing myself" with relationships, and it wasn't until that didn't work I began realizing how much pain I was in and ultimately after maybe 2 years, maybe 2.5 years, I drank. For me, All I need to do is look at my life before I got to AA to realize when it came to running my own life I'm not "manager material"...I'm really not, I look at things like my relations with others, whether I am truly happy, my relationships (the big give-away), I mean really look at my life, but if I turn it over and do the next right thing, and don't try to run the show, my life gets really good. I've had "drinking bottoms" but I have to say a "sober bottom" was all told, much more painful, i tried drinking for maybe 6 months, and it didn't "work", it didn't help. I do the steps to "feel better", because after having long term sobriety, and long term "drinking" both under my belt, for me, I get more relief and feel better by working the steps then I do from drinking, and for me "living sober" without the steps eventually life turns into a "living hell"....it's a slow process, much like a frog being in a pot of water on the stove when it's turned on, the frog will just sit there and cook to death because the water temperature changes gradually, that's what life is like for me sober after "the pink cloud" wears off without the ongoing relief the steps bring me. As far as the whole "god" thing, and the "christian based program" as a Californian that moved to Texas, that was regularly derided for "not being Christian" to actually having the kids at school beat me up, and even the teachers "spank me" while telling me if I was a christian this wouldn't be happening, put such a taste of of anti-Christianity in me that it was indescribable....today, after working the steps, it's been relieved, I am still VERY much a "non christian" but the truth is many of my closest friends in the program are devout Christians, and the funny thing is, when they speak about "god" I know what they mean, our "gods" couldn't be more different, I am much more "Buddhist/Taoist based, we are saying the same thing in most cases, just using different language.vehicles to get there. Friday night, I was at a meeting, and the speakers topic was "what is your concept of God?" So I shared, "the beautiful thing about AA is my concept of God is none of your business, I get to have my OWN concept of God, whether it be Group of Drunks, Good Orderly Direction, whatever, but my God is My Business, not anyone else's, and AA isn't the Oxford group, by the grace of God (haha) AA number 100 fought tooth and nail to have "God as we understood him" put in the steps. The reason I shared that was when I showed up to the rooms, my aversion and antipathy to the very word God, was...nearly physical in it's response, and in the Big Book, in "we agnostics, where it describes the aversion many of us had to organized religion, described me to a "T", I was plumb disgusted with all the horrible things and all the wars all done in "God's Name". So, when I was new, if anyone would have tried to shove "the God concept" down my throat I would have been gone, what I was told was, don't worry about it, take what you need and leave the rest, when you get to step 3 with a sponsor you can worry about it then, and by the time I got to step 3 with my sponsor, it was no longer an issue. Today, I have no problem with the concept of "God" although i do state at group level "my god doesn't have a willy" sometimes just to stir the pot a bit, and for me, I don't believe in an "otherness" or a "guiding intelligence" my God is my own, and my own business, and your God is your own business, I have argued with people about everything, I mean EVERYTHING in AA except God, and the truth is, the word or the concept doesn't bother me any more, the steps need a "power greater then yourself" to work, and here's the kicker for me: The steps are a radio for talking to God...you do them and they will manufacture a spiritual experience, which is defined by the Big Book as "The terms "spiritual experience" and "spiritual awakening" are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism" seemingly confusing language from someone that supposedly "doesn't believe in God" huh? ![]() Chuck C in the book "A New Pair of Glasses" has about the closest concept I have seen to "a God of my understanding" that I've seen, yet he uses christian based language to describe his God...anyway, the point I am trying to make is, Why don't you use your own concept of God? I did, and it worked, and what the hell, if you are going to be sober anyway, and have all this spare time, why not try the steps just for the hell of it? Here I am going to move strictly into opinion, if anything after this offends anyone, I am sorry, but up front, it's just my opinion. I can usually tell within moments of meeting someone if they have worked the steps and "have a good program". They are calmer, seem more at ease, and more content with themselves, take more personal responsibility for their actions, and they change. I ran into a friend I haven't seen in three years the other night at a meeting, and to quote Bill W, "He stood there, fresh-skinned and glowing. There was something about his eyes. He was inexplicably different." His very being shouted this was a man with an answer. It was bizarre, I have known this man for over thirty years yet didn't know the man standing in front of me. The peace and love in his eyes was astounding. Read "Bill's Story" when Ebby Thatcher comes to visit him even, " Quote:
I hope I made sense and didn't offend anyone, this is just my experience with the steps and this thread struck a chord with me.
__________________ If you go back to drinking and you haven’t written a Fourth Step inventory, don’t say that you tried A.A. and it failed, because you never tried A.A. Last edited by Ago; 10-19-2008 at 06:48 PM. | |
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| | #6 (permalink) | |||
| where the light is Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,408
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Hi Paul, I am responding to your statements with my own, personal experience. What you have accomplished speaks for itself and my comments are not meant to devalue it in any way. Just a different perspective from another guy who is relatively new to sobriety and AA. Quote:
I look back at where I was last December. Family, career, and mental health in serious jeopardy. Completely obsessed with drinking. My life was unmanageable. I can’t gloss it over and pretend it was no big deal. I would have lost everything important to me if I continued drinking. Quote:
“We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.” I am starting to experience this and it is amazing. Something I have not felt since I was 15 years old, before I started drinking. Do you believe that alcohol is a non-issue for you? You are now done drinking, can forget about it and move on? You absolutely will not use alcohol to deal with the difficulties in life? I am not being sarcastic; my sister was able to do this after several years of blackout drinking. She did not need AA or any other program. Quote:
I look back at my 10 months of sobriety, no white-knuckling even through the darkest days. Was it all me? My self-will alone? For me, the answer is self-evident. A power greater than myself. Whether you move forward with AA or not is truly a personal decision. It may in fact not be the right program for you. Whatever you decide, I do wish you the best. Don BB quote from the 1st edition of the BB | |||
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| | #7 (permalink) |
| Belgian Sheepdog Adictee Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: New Mexico
Posts: 2,976
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One of the things that helped me IMMENSELY with Step 1 and has helped others since was for me to do a 'time line' of my drinking and using. Going back as far as I could remember to when I first started and how it progressed and what happened when I drank and/or used. After doing that, and then going back and reading it, not only could I see the progression, but was able to see how my life was just continuing downhill everytime I drank. That gave me the 'unmanageable' part. This is what I had to do for me to make me 'see' that alcohol had become my MASTER. That my whole life had come to revolve around Alcohol. To me that was NOT managing my life. Became much easier than to Accept Step 1 to the very core of my being. It was then and only then that I could move on to step 2, knowing my foundation was now in concrete and not sand. Hope that helps a bit. Love and hugs,
__________________ ![]() God Bless You All As You Trudge The Road Of Happy Destiny (especially when you trudgin thru alligators up to your butt) |
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| | #8 (permalink) |
| God's Kid Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
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For me the problem I had with step 1 was I was not entirely convinced my problems were due to drinking/alcohol. I would tell anyone who would listen how unmanagable my life was, but was I powerless over alcohol? Um, dunno. 1 sober year later, I drunk the day after going to an AA meeting and had become obsessed with alcohol a few days prior. Following that, I understood what the term powerless over alcohol meant and could look back over my drinking career and identify other times when I hadn't meant to get drunk or not go home.
__________________ ....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God. |
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| | #9 (permalink) |
| Is my work solid so far? Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albemarle,N.C.
Posts: 2,024
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If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. (ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS, first ed.) if that be the case,our life is unmanageable too if we cannot stay sober,there is the un-manageability booze is managing it for me I could not do the usual things in life because of my drinking
__________________ Faith should not stand in the wisdom of men,but in the Power of God |
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| | #10 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 67
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My alcoholic brain makes me question whether I am an alcoholic, AA, meetings, and the 12 steps EVERY DAY. If I have admitted that I have a drinking problem and I cannot manage my drinking, and I do things I didn't want to do, and I caused wreckage, and I hurt my family and other people, and ... (you get my point) then it seems to me that my life is unmanageable. When I got to AA, I didn't lose everything nor did ever get a DUI nor was I ever arrested. I never blacked out and I did not drink all day. Even though I was an athiest and anti-religion, I seemed to believe in a God because I often begged him/it to take my life and end my misery. AA and the 12 steps has given me recovery and a new life. I learned that my brain could manipulate me and always make an excuse why I wasn't an alcoholic and why I didn't need AA. This is my unmanageability. My illness is in my brain. For me, Step 1 is about letting go of control. I can do things in my life to make me think that I am managing it. I also think that I could probably go have 1 or 2 beers and be ok. I acknowledge these thoughts as ammunition from a sick mind. As for AA and the 12 steps I figure it's working thus far so why question it? I suggest you acknowledge your thoughts about quitting attending AA and stopping your 12 steps but tell yourself that your brain is broken and use these thoughts as the reason to stay in AA and go through the 12 steps. If, after you honestly and diligently go through the 12 steps with a sponsor you see no reason to continue then make a choice then. Working the 12 steps won't kill you, your alcoholic brain might... |
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| | #11 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK
Posts: 362
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Thanks for the replies so far, i am reading them with interest. One thing i want to pick up on which a few have said, is with regards to the unmanageable part of step 1. Some have suggested they looked at it, because they knew their life became unmanageable when they drank, their life fell apart. This was the same with me. I have been told though that it means your life is unmanageable now, whilst not drinking. That it is the underlying thoughts, thinking and feelings of an alcoholic that is unmanageable, that this is what made us drink, rather than the unmanageability of life whilst drinking. Any thoughts? |
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| | #12 (permalink) |
| 1 bite&all resistance crumbles Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: IRELAND
Posts: 2,046
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Paul I liked your post - it reminds me of the insanity of my disease. You got all this stuff from doing part of aa...you are bound to get even MORE - more joy, serenity, longevity of your sobriety etc...but you are considering not...without really anything to lose... My life is also not unmanageable NOW...but it would be if I drank again...if I did not keep working the program (includng the steps) I would pick up a drink again...and for me to drink is to die. It just seems like such a no brainer, but moreover, I know from experience that doing the steps has given me such gifts emotionally and spiritually it seems like utter madness not to do it. What do you have to lose? Why nitpick. Just do it. You've got a lot so far right? You want more - do it. You want to possibly lose it all - don't do it and throw in the towel altogether. I hope you do the right thing. Thank you for your post and reminder. Cathy31 x
__________________ Sober since 22nd March 2006 by the Grace of God and the Programs & Fellowship of AA and NA ![]() :ghug Life is Beautiful! Fake it til you make it... :atv |
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| | #13 (permalink) | |
| Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,288
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Paul I had the exact same issue, being powerless over alcohol I could easily admit, I knew without a doubt to my very core that if I put one drink in me any control I had was lost, in the end alcohol owned me! Quote:
Do not get me wrong I still know that the second I have a drink of alcohol that I lose every bit of power I have over alcohol, that part like you, I never had a problem fully accepting, the unmanagabilty I had a very hard time with, you see I still had a job and a drivers license.......... well in looking back on my life a job and a drivers license was all I had managed to not give away, once sober for a while I was able to honestly look back on my life and see just how really unmanagable my life was while I was drinking. I had started to drink at work on occasion, this would have led me to losing my job. My wife in the end already had a place set up to move her and the kids to, so I was not able to manage to keep my wife and kids in my life. I had no idea how to pay bills or taxes and I know if I was drinking I could not have done those things on my own. I could not manage to not drink and drive, if I was driving, I was drinking, and if I had gotten pulled over I would have been unable to manage to keep my license. When it comes to step one, it is important that I keep in mind that it is past tense, not this very instant! In other words for me I look at step one this way: If I am drinking I have absolutely no control over alcohol and if I am drinking I am unable to manage my life!!! If I am not drinking I do with the help of my HP have a degree of control over alcohol and my life. Step one for me is past tense. One VERY important note on this though, I have to be beyond the mental obsession for alcohol before I can honestly have fully taken step one! If I am still obsessing over a drink, I still remain powerless over alcohol and my life is still unmanagable because I am not thinking straight if I am thinking about drinking! This is why steps 2 & 3 were so important, I had to believe that there was some power greater then me that could help restore my insane obsession for alcohol to that of sanity where I no longer obsessed for alcohol. In order for steps 1 & 2 to really start to have any real long lasting effects I had to make a decision to turn my will and my life over to the CARE of a God aka Higher Power that I understood! I bolded the words decision & CARE because those are the 2 words when first looking at this step I was unable to see for some reason, what I really had to ask myself when taking this step was I willing to make a decision turn my will and my life over to the CARE of a God aka Higher Power that I understood? Well I was willing to turn myself over to the CARE of a Power greater then me. Now here is what I have learned so far, I have learned that the more steps I took the more powerful the prior steps have become. I have learned since I finished taking all the steps that as I continue to apply ALL of the steps to ALL aspects of my life, thiings keep getting better in my life and when I do have problem small or large I am able to work through them rather then even think about drinking through them.
__________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA | |
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| | #14 (permalink) | |
| Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,288
| Quote:
The primary differences I see in my managabilty is that since I am managing my life under the care & guidance of my HP, I am far less stressed, I am not overwhelmed at times, with the guidance and care of my HP I am able to see more clearly actions that need to be taken or avoided in my life...... this has led me to peace in my life, I no longer panic when things go wrong because I am not alone! I have the guidance of a caring HP and the Experience of others in the fellowship who have been through the same things I am facing.
__________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA | |
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| | #15 (permalink) | |
| Member | Quote:
My life is unmanageable without the steps in place. I have seen many get caught up in the intellectualization of the steps. I found that to make a solid start all I needed to know was that I could not drink under any and all circumstances and that it made my life hell. STep one tells me the problem ( which is me) Step 2 tells me the solution ( need a higher power) steps 3 thru 11 deliver me at a spiritual awakening (step 12) which allows me to think and act in a different way
__________________ No rhetoric Just results All Big Book quotes are from first edition | |
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| | #16 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,872
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"Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks - drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery. On the other hand - and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand - once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules." Paul, You do not have to be an advocate of a spiritual program of recovery to get sober, but from your writings you have succeeded in starting a New Life, free from bondage and the idea today is to not only maintain what you have found but to expand on it. If you are like us and I think you are, you know that there comes a certain peace after a spree when the body returns to health and the mind clears. Doubt immediately returns as to whether there was any problem to begin with, thereby setting in motion the next future drinking event. "Men have cried out to me in sincere and despairing appeal: "Doctor, I cannot go on like this! I have everything to live for! I must stop, but I cannot! You must help me!" Faced with this problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must sometimes feel his own inadequacy. Although he gives all that is in him, it often is not enough. One feels that something more than human power is needed to produce the essential psychic change. Though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort is perhaps considerable, we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon the problem as a whole. Many types do not respond to the ordinary psychological approach." Your psychic change is progressing; you have seen the light of recovery, yet in short order you would return to your own will to map a future uncertain. Using your will once again, you would return to mastering the world via your own power; need you more lessons in pain and suffering? Your recognition of God is not necessary today, but using your power to direct your own life now will ultimately, I believe lead you back to the insanity of active use. So what is the answer? A power greater than you can be the love of the fellowship as an example; the Steps of a New Life have opened door to clarity for you and that direction can also serve as a greater power for now. Your Sponsor, though human can be a greater power as you learn to build your own personal understand of what a greater power is. Faith in the unseen does not need your approval to work. Is not love unseen until applied by another living creature? If I may, believe today that others believe in the unseen that lifts us to do for others who cannot do for themselves. I love you Paul and my faith in your mighty beginning of recovery is returned to you to lift you through the moments of doubt. I am but a man, but what has grown in me can grow in you and as the months and years pass and your healing continues, the good in you will also grow and flourish. I ask you only to be open to life and please do not stop before the miracle has a chance to complete itself in your life. I believe my friend that you are here in life today to not only live free, but to offer the same to others in your time. Use this wonderful opportunity of freedom from bondage to offer your hand to others as you continue to grow and learn; I know you can and I believe in your continued courage to succeed. Ron
__________________ "Weather forecast for tonight: dark. Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning." George Carlin Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous |
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| | #17 (permalink) | |||
| Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK
Posts: 362
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| | #18 (permalink) |
| Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,872
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My life was unmanageable before I drank alcoholically and some unmanageability remains to this day. With continued work through the Steps I am healing, but I realize that I will always need to be vigilant.
__________________ "Weather forecast for tonight: dark. Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning." George Carlin Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous |
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| | #19 (permalink) |
| God's Kid Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
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For me, my life is unmanageable by me. I can't manage my own life, trying to manage my life leads me back to drinking, hence I found this out after drinking while attending AA. Things weren't going 'my way' or how I thought 'they should' so I became resentful and ended up drinking. This old guy round the meetings I go to and tells this analogy. "Recovery is like going on a boat trip, except when I turn up at the dock (with all my luggage) to board the boat, God is at the helm, looks at me and says, “What have you got all that luggage for? You don’t need it. Chuck it a way and then go get up the back of the boat, and enjoy the trip. I’m the one sailing....”
__________________ ....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God. |
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| | #20 (permalink) |
| Thumper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,604
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Didge - this is just my opinion. I don't know if you have heard the term "Step 1 reservations" before - but I hear it all the time. Most often from AA members who just raced through the steps and didn't have a step 1 experience, inevitably they drank (usually after a long time sober, 5 years plus) and are baffled as to why. I think you are asking the right questions. If you have any reservations about step 1 - don't continue the steps. For me, step 1 and the definition of alcoholism in the big book - led me to look at my life, past - look back at my life. Did I relate to this 'craving' that is outlined in the Dr's opinion? - Yes I did. It states there that this 'craving' never occurs in the average temperate drinker - so #1 - I am not the average temperate drinker. Did I ever swear off, and really mean it - just to drink again? Yes I did..the mental obsession has hit me when it could be least expected. This tells me that I am going to drink again, period. There is nothing I can do to keep me sober - I have tried and failed. Unmanageability - does drinking work for me? Can I live a happy, productive life and drink alcohol?....Considering that I don't know when I will stop once I start - I would have to say no. Can I control my emotional nature? Can I control taking that first drink (can I just not drink, therefore never have the craving kick in)? Based on my life - I can't do it. So - I am gonna drink again - and when I start, I will not stop until an outside force intervenes. I don't want to drink because of the pain it has caused me. Step one was both awful and relieving..I finally knew what was wrong, but I also admitted I was pretty much scr3wed. Then a solution was offered. Our literature says that if you have any doubts - to leave alcohol alone for a year. Does that seem like a daunting task? Thank you for your post didg...I am glad you are asking questions.
__________________ "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards." - Soren Kierkegaard |
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