Is AA to rigid?

[Celebration1994]

I found this article and it may be of interest to some:

Our Greatest Danger: Rigidity


Bob Pearson


Bob Pearson (1917-2008) was General Manager of the General Service Office from 1974 to 1984, and then served as Senior Advisor to the G.S.O. from 1985 until his retirement. His story is in the Big Book as "AA Taught Him to Handle Sobriety," 3rd edit. (1976) pp. 554-561, 4th edit. (2001) pp. 553-559.

During the 1986 General Service Conference, Bob gave a powerful and inspiring closing talk to the conference at the closing brunch on Saturday morning, April 26. It was an especially significant occasion, because he knew that he was going to retire early the next year, and that this would be his last General Service Conference. The following excerpts are taken from that farewell speech, as published in the Conference's final report: The Thirty-Sixth Annual Meeting of the General Service Conference of Alcoholics Anonymous 1986 (Roosevelt Hotel, New York City, April 20-26, 1986), Final Report.

This is my 18th General Service Conference -- the first two as a director of the Grapevine and A.A.W.S., followed by four as a general service trustee. In 1972, I rotated out completely, only to be called back two years later as general manager of G.S.O., the service job I held until late 1984. Since the 1985 International Convention, of course, I have been senior adviser. This is also my last Conference, so this is an emotionally charged experience.

I wish I had time to express my thanks to everyone to whom I am indebted for my sobriety and for the joyous life with which I have been blessed for the past nearly 25 years. But since this is obviously impossible, I will fall back on the Arab saying that Bill quoted in his last message, "I thank you for your lives." For without your lives, I most certainly would have no life at all, much less the incredibly rich life I have enjoyed.

Let me offer my thoughts about A.A.'s future. I have no truck with those bleeding deacons who decry every change and view the state of the Fellowship with pessimism and alarm. On the contrary, from my nearly quarter-century's perspective, I see A.A. as larger, healthier, more dynamic, faster growing, more global, more service-minded, more back-to-basics, and more spiritual -- by far -- than when I came through the doors of my first meeting in Greenwich, Connecticut, just one year after the famous [July 1960] Long Beach Convention. A.A. has flourished beyond the wildest dreams of founding members, though perhaps not of Bill himself, for he was truly visionary.

I echo those who feel that if this Fellowship ever falters or fails, it will not be because of any outside cause. No, it will not be because of treatment centers or professionals in the field, or non-Conference-approved literature, or young people, or the dually-addicted, or even the "druggies" trying to come to our closed meetings. If we stick close to our Traditions, Concepts, and Warranties, and if we keep an open mind and an open heart, we can deal with these and any other problems that we have or ever will have. If we ever falter and fail, it will be simply because of us. It will be because we can't control our own egos or get along well enough with each other. It will be because we have too much fear and rigidity and not enough trust and common sense.

If you were to ask me what is the greatest danger facing A.A. today, I would have to answer: the growing rigidity -- the increasing demand for absolute answers to nit-picking questions; pressure for G.S.O. to "enforce" our Traditions; screening alcoholics at closed meetings; prohibiting non-Conference-approved literature, i.e., "banning books"; laying more and more rules on groups and members. And in this trend toward rigidity, we are drifting farther and farther away from our co- founders. Bill, in particular, must be spinning in his grave, for he was perhaps the most permissive person I ever met. One of his favorite sayings was, "Every group has the right to be wrong." He was maddeningly tolerant of his critics, and he had absolute faith that faults in A.A. were self-correcting.

And I believe this, too, so in the final analysis we're not going to fall apart. We won't falter or fail. At the 1970 International Convention in Miami, I was in the audience on that Sunday morning when Bill made his brief last public appearance. He was too ill to take his scheduled part in any other convention event, but now, unannounced, on Sunday morning, he was wheeled up from the back of the stage in a wheelchair, attached with tubes to an oxygen tank. Wearing a ridiculous bright-orange, host committee blazer, he heaved his angular body to his feet and grasped the podium -- and all pandemonium broke loose. I thought the thunderous applause and cheering would never stop, tears streaming down every cheek. Finally, in a firm voice, like his old self, Bill spoke a few gracious sentences about the huge crowd, the outpouring of love, and the many overseas members there, ending (as I remember) with these words: "As I look over this crowd, I know that Alcoholics Anonymous will live a thousand years -- if it is God's will."


Enjoy~blessings & love~~Terry

[Tommyh]

I believe the people sometimes become too rigid in AA
been there too and it did not work too well for me
thanks to a good sponsor who helped me become more flexible

[ananda]

Thanks so much for posting this....I certainly reflects many of my thoughts.

I am grateful everyday for the openmindedness of the aa meetings that I attend and the people in those meetings.

[Boleo]

Some alcoholics have a 4 oz Monkey on their back and just need a sponsor who will give them a gentle tap on the back with a fly-swatter.

Some alcoholics have a 900 lb Gorilla on their back and need a sponsor who will haul off and wack em with a sledge-hammer.

In all fairness every newcomer deserves at least one gentle sponsor. If that fails then they need the "Hammer".

[ananda]

It is interesting to me that different people need different types of sponsors. All sorts are available in my groups. It seems to me that most of the time people end up "drawn" to the right kind of sponsor for them. I thought I was choosing "hard A$$" sponsors and they never ended up being that..good thing for me as I hear soft better than loud and respond better to gentle suggestions than to unexplained and unbending directions.

However, rigidity is not the same to me as hard vs gentle sponsor. I can be just as rigid in my softness as the harder people can be with their hardness. Rigid for me is an inablilty to be flexable based on circumstances. When a fellow AA cannot feel the gentle push...I sometimes get stuck in a stuborn ridgid refusal to bend to the particular person and situation and just say it loud and clear.

[Pinkcuda]

My personal belief is that AA has gotten too soft at the Group Level. I do a lot of Meeting Hopping and I see more Group Therapy than anything else. This seems to be acceptable, if not encouraged.
I even went to a meeting where one of the members said that he still had fears of financial insecurity. One by One they went around the table giving him financial advise.
If I was a newcomer and mustered up the guts to walk into my first meeting only to hear someone whining about their marriage, I doubt if I would return.
My opinion is that AA has not become too rigid.

[FightingIrish]

I personally am in the middle of a group that is trying to fashion itself as "Hard AA" and it is quite painful to watch.

This is a group that has been around for decades and that has gotten countless people sober, but literally three people who seem to rotate into all the primary service positions are trying to change everything. New "rules" that seem impossible to enforce aside from the fact that they are ridiculous seem to crop up after every business meeting. They also hold Group Conscience meetings when certain people are not around so they can be sure to get things passed.

The problem is that it's only three or four people and the others who are opposed to this sort of thing are not power-hungry enough to protest...they simply go elsewhere.

I have never been through a relapse like the rest of these people, but so far in my sobriety I am not a big fan of "bunker mentality" AA. I don't know whether my monkey was a gorilla or not, but it certainly sucked, went on for too many years, and is something I am glad to be free of.

[lisa1235]

i dont think its to rigid.i think there are a few meetings that are but if found ones and people there who bend to give the message of strength love and hope.i enjoy those.

[SelfSeeking]

If it's working for that group, who's to say it's not acceptable? I have seen people discussing aspects of their personal lives as those aspects relate to their sobriety and step work. I dunno if this is too much group therapy? Is group therapy the antithesis of AA?

Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to clarify.

[lisa1235]

i dont think so .we dont get too overly group therapyish(if thats a word)we follow the principals and tradtions but on some days one of us may need to clarify those for them.im one of those people that it takes two or three differant ways of getting something and learning to get it...it took me 18 yrs to convinced i had a problem.i just thank the god of my understanding that there were people that took time to share what they had so i could get it too.i try to be patient with those who were like me.its kind of how i give back...

[RufusACanal]

Balance

[tiburon88]

When I do AA I use it as group therapy. I always thought thats what it was for.


tib

[CarolD]

I like the structure of AA.

I did need to rein in my willy nilly hedonistic lifestyle.
That's where the Steps come in for me.

To me then...and now...meetings are like classrooms
for healthy improvements in the way I live sober.


I think it's up to us...the older AA members
to guide a group back to basics.
That is why Group concious is in place.

It also can be gently suggested in a less
formal way. For instance...noon Open Discussion
we have 2 members who love to Chair.

They usually want to talk about their feelings
and do so without opening a reference book

We keep copies of the BB-!2 & 12-Daily Reflections
and As Bill Sees It on the desk where Chairs sit.
All these were approved by our GC for meetings.

So....when I see Y or Z sit down to chair...
I make a point of asking...
"What are you going to read from today"?

It has worked out quite well....

[bob_sapp]

If anything, AA membership is down because of our individualist, post-modern culture than shuns organizations. Not to mention the overwhelmingly pro-alcohol culture that basically makes you a pariah if you don't get smashed. When I meet women or new people, the minute they find out I don't drink and am spiritual, I might as well have told them I have the plague because they want about as much to do with me.

The guy in the article is talking about things like banning literature that isn't new york approved.... this is committee level junk that noone's going to know or hear about until they have years of sobriety and are service reps.

[FightingIrish]

"A.A. as such ought never be organized..."

Originally Posted by bob_sapp

If anything, AA membership is down because of our individualist, post-modern culture than shuns organizations. Not to mention the overwhelmingly pro-alcohol culture that basically makes you a pariah if you don't get smashed. When I meet women or new people, the minute they find out I don't drink and am spiritual, I might as well have told them I have the plague because they want about as much to do with me.

The guy in the article is talking about things like banning literature that isn't new york approved.... this is committee level junk that noone's going to know or hear about until they have years of sobriety and are service reps.

[Boleo]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

When I do AA I use it as group therapy. I always thought thats what it was for.

tib

19 out of 20 AA members fail to stay sober because they think it is some kind of psychology based program.

1 out of 20 stay stopped because they know it is a spiritual program.

[gravity]

Personally, I find that there are both spiritual and psychological aspects to AA. I attend discussion meetings and big book study meetings.

The discussion meetings I attend focus more on feelings and day to day challenges. I am able to relate to what other alcoholics are going through. It does seem like group therapy. While I appreciate discussion meetings, I find that there is more self-centeredness and less focus on the 12 steps. I heard an oldtimer say that this is not real AA. I just don’t know. It seems to help people but is it really the solution?

For where I am at in my recovery, I find big book study meetings to be more effective, focused on the solution. Anything more that I can learn about the 12 steps makes me stronger. There are more older, “by the book” members that attend these meetings and this is exactly what I want (“If you have decided that you want what we have”). I’m also going to start attending a step study meeting this week.

Regardless of what type of meeting I attend, I try to relate my shares directly to the 12 steps and the big book. I’m sure that no one really wants to hear me go on and on about how unfair life is treating me without offering some hope.

[lizw]

The people I first met at AA meeting could have said anything and I still would've kept going back, I just wanted to feel better.

In my expereince what will kill AA, well in my country at least, is the lack of people wanting or willing to do service beyond a group level. I.e. delegates etc...

At my local area assembly it is not uncommon to get 10 GSR's at the most!!!

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by Pinkcuda

My personal belief is that AA has gotten too soft at the Group Level. I do a lot of Meeting Hopping and I see more Group Therapy than anything else. This seems to be acceptable, if not encouraged.
I even went to a meeting where one of the members said that he still had fears of financial insecurity. One by One they went around the table giving him financial advise.
If I was a newcomer and mustered up the guts to walk into my first meeting only to hear someone whining about their marriage, I doubt if I would return.
My opinion is that AA has not become too rigid.

I have never had the misfortune of attending a meeting like that and I hope I never do! I'm sorry that you had to experience that! I am stunned! So much for 'no cross talk' that's one of the many things I love about AA - how a bunch of us alcoholics (highly opinionated to the extreme) can sit and listen to one another and resist the urge to comment/give advice/pass judgment. It's truly a miracle and helps me with my humility. I've been at one meeting where advice was given - program related but still ADVICE - and I remember my toes curling up in retaliation it was awful! I love how we share about ourselves and ourselves alone. It's such a great discipine - and thanks for the orginal post, I love what he had to say - and what Bill W had to say. Awesome.

Where I am AA is doing just fine, thank God!

Cathy31
x

[Tazman53]

Here is one thing I keep in mind... Tradition 4:

4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

I have not been to any AA meeting I would not go back to, I have been to ones where I did not really like the format, I have been to ones where I did not like individuals that were there, but I would still go back.

As a newcomer I feel that I needed to here the message!!! I am thankful that when I first started going to meetings I went to meetings where the message was carried, not by every person there, but by enough of them to where I was able to hear the message.

I try in every share where there are newcomers present to share the message and in all shares I try and make sure I am sharing the solution as well.

Mt sponsor is quite different from me, where we differ is he has a strong preference for VERY structured meetings with rigid guidelines to be followed, he said when he was in California his favorite meeting was one where you had to have 10 years sober just to share!!!!! He got 10 years sober the day before he moved from there.

He went to one in New Jersey where before someone shared they had some type of long spiel where they stated whether they had worked the steps fully with a sponsor, if they had not they would state what step they were working with thier sponsor and if it happened to be step 4 the whole group in unison would say "Keep writing!".

If I had gone to either one of those meetings in early sobriety I would have run like a scalded chicken!!!!

One thing I keep in mind is what helped me stay sober may not help someone else. I needed and still do need structure, but I do not now nor in early sobriety need RIGID structure, but some folks do.

Tradition 4 is one of the most awesome traditions in my opinion in AA, if someone needed a meeting where they felt wearing a clown suit for all participants is helpful they could have one, they might have a hard time finding others to come, but that is okay. Like every alcoholic is different and has different needs so do meetings.

Any meeting that is keeping with tradition 5:

Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

is doing what every AA group should be doing.

Don't like Open meetings? Go to a closed one! Don't like discussion meetings? Go to a speakers meeting or a literature meeting! Don't like women in a closed meeting? Go to a mens meeting.

Just keep going until you find what you need.

I love working with newcomers, I love the shares of many newcomers who are seeking a solution and not a place to vomit all the problems in thier life just to throw up and not seek answers. I love listening to old timers share where they are at in thier lifes and how they have overcome problems in thier lifes.... and even how they still have issues that they seek help on.