Normies vs Alkies from the beginning

[AW2486]

I heard something interesting recently that got me thinking..

It was about the 10th Step. The person said we have to stay on top of our inventory, keep it within the day. We are not like normal people that don’t have to do inventory, or worry about resentments ect..

Why is that.. Where did it come from?

Mentally why are we the way we are? Why do we have the effect of relief when we drank or drugged. The ease and comfort we felt, made us feel comfortable in our own skin. Why do we need to work whatever recovery program we work just to have that same effect of being OK with who we are.

What is the mental difference of the normal drinker and the alcoholic before we even put any chemicals in our body ?

For alkies and druggies .. no matter what upbringing we had, or walk of life we came from, good or bad, we seem to all have the same mental / self esteem problems of not being OK with ourselves.

Everybody has all the same fears when growing up.. Why do they cripple us to the point of seeking relief?

Why are we different from normal people from the first day we were born?

I heard Chuck C say on his “new pair of glasses” conference audio.. His take is we just feel everything more strongly than normal people.

Thoughts?

[nandm]

An interesting topic.

IMHO, it will still be a long time before we have any conclusive evidence as to what makes the alcoholic. There are many that schools of belief on the subject. My thought is since there appears to be a genetic aspect to alcoholism (at least it appears to be true of many) that the difference starts out as a physiological problem which turns into a psychological and spiritual one as we progress in life and our disease. But that is just my theory and thoughts. No way for me to prove or disprove it.

[Peter]

Thoughts? Okay, here goes, but I know I'm gonna get myself in trouble again for this one...

First of all I do not consider myself as "not normal" and I do not consider "non alcoholics" as "normies" or "earthlings" or any other such nick name that sets me apart from society.

To be honest there was a time when I did, but this was very early in my recovery when I felt a powerful need to "belong" or "bond" to a group and my sense of gratitude towards the fellowship of AA made me feel I was different from everyone else. There is nothing wrong with this of course but I have found that as I grow in recovery my beliefs change and evolve. I have discovered that I am no different from anyone else.I do not believe I feel things more "strongly than normal people" which is what caused me to abuse alcohol. I believe I had a low threshold for pain (physical and emotional) and alcohol was my medication.

Recovery is about getting my life back and being a productive part of society. I feel I can best accomplish this by considering myself a normal part of it instead of separate from it. yes I am an alcoholic and I can never ever safely consume alcohol again but aside from this I am like everybody else in many other ways. There are people in the world that suffer from diseases and physical deformities and endure poverty and human suffering the likes of which I cannot possibly imagine. We all have our cross to bear and our issues to deal with, mine happens to be alcohol.

I love honour and treasure my membership in AA and it is good to belong to a dynamic group of people that is doing some good in the world but AA is not "us" and "them"

As I have stated before and as I have stated in another thread, there are certain things I just no longer use in my recovery vocabaulary. "Normies" is another one of them.

[Peter]

Oh, I forget,

Second.

Numerous studies and millions of dollars have been spent in an effort to try an determine what make an alcoholic an alcoholic but nobody really knows the answer to this age old question. I only know why this alcoholic drank.

[sugErspun]

No one likes to admit they are physically and mentally different..but that is what alcoholics are- physically and mentally different.

At least some are - myself included of course. Throw in a little spiritual sickness where I rely solely on self to run this life - and you got a pretty sad sight to see, and I cause a lot of harm to those around me.

Precisely why? I don't know - don't really think about it too much. Once I realized: "ok-I got this thing called alcoholism" it became "what do I have to do?". But it took me a long time to even know what an alcoholic is. Someone that drinks too much? - Obviously if we share other common attributs it must be more than that.

I had to know WHAT an alcoholic is, not WHY. Maybe the 'why' will be revealed someday- but I am not getting my hopes up.

This doesn't mean I cannot live a happy, meaningful, productive life that makes as much sense to me as anyone elses life. Part of me really wishes I had an answer to the question - but I just don't, and speculation is frustrating.

[353]

I'm alcoholic because I like the effect alcohol.

Much the way a greedy person will over-achieve for monetary success to the detriment of his family..

or an obese person will medicate with consuming insane amounts of food

or a gambler will enjoy the rush of the game

or a liar will lie

or someone who spends more money then they could ever have ....shopping

or a thief will steal

or a cheating husband cheats because he thinks sexual prowess is the manly thing to do

I may be all of these things or none of these things, save one.....I know for sure I'm alcoholic.

The only difference between me and alot of other people, we all have the same emotions and problems, the only difference is that alcohol seems like a great idea, despite all the pain it has caused me, and when I drink I don't stop

Peace

[NoelleR]

"...I heard something interesting recently that got me thinking...It was about the 10th Step. The person said we have to stay on top of our inventory, keep it within the day. We are not like normal people that don’t have to do inventory, or worry about resentments ect..
Why is that...?"

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that....that 'we are not like 'normal' people that don't have to do inventory...' This is so totally false! I know many 'normal' folks who work 11 of the 12 steps of AA [since they are not alcoholics, they omit step one as they are not powerless over alcohol; their lives are not unmanageable (although some of have lives that are slightly unmanageable...lol)], and I know some others who have made up their own 'steps' -- their own "Design for Living" (as steps 2-12 have become known--I believe it was Hazelden who first coined that phrase)..... (o:

Good gracious.....it was Socrates who said, "The unexamined life is not worth living," and I don't believe he was an alcoholic/addict......was he a FOB...lol?


NoelleR

[findingout]

Originally Posted by AW2486

We are not like normal people that don’t have to do inventory, or worry about resentments ect..

My thought is that normal people do take inventory, admit when they are wrong, and worry about resentments to one degree or another. I would say the only people who don't have to do this are saints and, at least in my neck of the woods, there are not enough of them to be considered the norm.

It's important for me to be conscious of working the 10th step because I spent so many years not doing it. Whether I'm genetically programmed that way or I just never practiced the discipline for all those years doesn't really matter. Either way, I need to do it today to stay in recovery.

[CarolD]

I found this Time article interessting...

How We Get Addicted - TIME

I have 5 progresive incurable diseases
One is alcoholism.
Not one makes me apart from anyone.

...Actually, alcoholism limits me far
less than the other 4.

No I am not normal
I am an AA miracle.

[AW2486]

I hear it at a lot of speaker meetings.. When people talk about their very first drink.. most of them say the effect seems to be a massive sense of relief, with new found courage. It was the same with me.

Maybe non alcoholics feel the same way too mentally. But as we know physically we are very different.

Sorry if I offended anyone with the title. Didn't mean too. I'm still learning about this online recovery thing and people's sensitivities.

[bballdad]

AW,great question.
Some people say it don`t matter why we are this way,I believe it does.Several reasons come to mind
the more we learn ,the better we can become at prevention efforts with our youth today.
the more we learn,the better rehabilitation can become.
If you read the article at this link,it may shed some light on your question.I find it very informative and I plan on doing futher study on it.


William E. Swegan, 2. The Psychology of Alcoholism

[lizw]

Some days (these days) I think I am 'normal'.
As a result of my 'worst thing I've ever done sober 2007' episod.
When I say normal, what I mean is I've climbed down (or got pushed off) my spiritual hill top. Some days I feel good. Some days I don't feel so good. Which from what I have seen is how 'normal people' are too.

However, every so often I have an attack of the 'sensitives' and start collecting irrational fears and resentments like they're going out of fashion. The HALT's don't help (hungry, angry etc..) either and sometimes my attacks start as a result of this then other times it just seems to happen out of the blue.... And it lasts anywhere from a few hours to a couple of weeks. From my expereince with non addicts and alkies, they may have a rough time due to external circumstances but the difference between them and me is my roungh times appear to come from internal places, if that makes sense.

My sister married a normal guy and he often asks her why she gets stuck thinking about 1 subject and 1 subject alone - she's an Al Anon member. We call this 'obssession', in the program right? He doesn't even have a word for it. Lol.

Am unsure how this relates to the orginal post but that's my ESH 5 cents worth.

[debs4321]

My thoughts on this ........................

I am not normal, I have a disease of the mind body and soul, that only God and the 12 Steps can help me with.

When I am not working a program, I instantly know it.
I hold on to resentments, causing obsessions, anger, fear, hatred.
I cant let things go, like normal people do.

I have to be thorough in my program, day after day, or my alcoholic mind will slowly convince me that drinking is my solution. I will slowly push God out and replace Him with whatever makes me feel better (quick fix, I like to call it).

For me, I can not forget that. For I will surely drink again.

I will never be normal, and today, I am ok with that.

I am grateful for this program, because I am a productive part of society, I can go out in the world with my head held high. And knowing that I am not normal and never will be, just keeps me in check and willing to keep growing into a better person

[Tazman53]

No one likes to admit they are physically and mentally different

First off having always been me, I do not really know what normal is! LOL

I bolded what I feel is VERY important, we are different, not mentally alone, but as it says in the BB we are physically and mentally different!

There are an awful lot of non-alcoholics that suffer from many of the same things mentally that I suffer from, but they do not have that physical allergy I have.

There are a ton of non-alcoholics that have found a better life through the 12 steps, the only difference being thier step one is different.

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by CarolD

No I am not normal
I am an AA miracle.

Hear Hear

[bugsworth]

Alright I know I will get in trouble for being here...BUT since there are opposing opinions on this topic I will share mine. I agree with Peter and during the 10 months I attended aa would cringe when I heard people refer to non-alcoholics as "normies" or "earthlings"

In another thread today I posted something regarding smoking, I think it suits this discussion....

The alcoholics and the addicts have no monopoly on the kind of stupidity that makes people continue to feed an addiction even while it is killing them. Over 400,000.00 Americans alone die from smoking related illness ever year. Smokers know that they are killing themselves yet most continue into the grave...are smokers not "normal"? Do they have a disease of the mind, body and soul?

[Rob B]

Good Mornings, Bugs, thanks for stopping by, here's my thought:

I believe all addictions are blocks that prevent us from discovering who we really are, God's kids.

I still smoke, I know it will kill me, I am in the process of cutting down. I am working with a man who said,"Rob, everytime you take a drag, remember you are chasing a false God". Yep, he made my inventory. Although it sure has taken the fun out of smoking.

[bugsworth]

Best of luck to you Rob on your eventual quit. I also see our addictions as blocks that prevent us from being who we were meant to be. For the record...the last 10 years that I smoked it was never fun always caused pain, to myself and those that loved me.

[Tazman53]

Hey Bugs how are you doing on not smoking? Well I hope.

[dancinggirl]

I think you made an assumption there, AW, that all acoholics have self-esteem issues and aren't ok with themselves. I don't have that. The only issue I have is that I am ashamed of the DRINKING...but I don't drink at all because of some deep-rooted shame I have in myself or low self-esteem.

[NoelleR]

I just gotta chime in here....

"AA just has too many negatives in it." "AA fills their members with too much negativity."

These are some of the things detractors/Anti-AAer's will often say.....I'm a member of AA; I got sober thru AA, clean thru NA, but even I, I must admit, at times, have seen this (AA fostering low self-image in its members, by convincing them they‘re not normal; they‘re sick; they‘re powerless.....over EVERYTHING......).....and this thread....? It's a perfect (sic) example.....and oh so sad, AND so not true, based on incorrect data; misinformation....

Except for the way our bodies process alcohol.....alcoholics and non-alcoholics are NOT physically different; nor are we mentally different; nor spiritually either.....some folks seem to like to set themselves apart, but although we are ALL (alcoholics and non-alcoholics)the same (overall); we are ALL special and unique, too..... (o:

It is held by many that we alcoholics/addicts have a physical, mental, and spiritual disease....but then again, it might not be a disease at all....Many folks say alcoholics/addicts drink/use over issues (their fears, or anger), that they use alcohol/drugs as coping mechanisms. This may be true for some, but I believe it’s true for fewer than is realized. When completing my MMPI (in order to qualify for the state to pay for some schooling for me), it was found that I was healthy - physically, mentally, and spiritually.....except for a wee little issue with my father (I kept filling in the blanks that my father is/was an &^#$$^%... After explaining to the psychologist that: there are lots of ^&%$#@! in world, and unfortunately some of them are our relatives, she had to agree with me that it was a non-issue.....after all, I rather doubt that Charles Manson’s son feels his dad is the best dad....lol

Obviously if there are normal folks, there would also be not normal folks (abnormal).....and I just don't see it. I am NOT abnormal!!!! The term 'normies' kinda sounds cute, but I'm not buying into it; and to say there are normal folks and abnormal folks.....heck, the way I see it......we all may act a bit abnormal at times, but that doesn’t make us abnormal.....quirky? Perhaps? I find the terms normal vs. Non/non/ab-normal derogatory, and won't use it.

"... We are not like normal people that don’t have to do inventory, or worry about resentments etc...." --- This is so NOT true...! As I said in a previous post, even Socrates advised 4th/10th step working.....”The unexamined life is not worth living.” That kinda sums it up, eh.

"...For alkies and druggies .. no matter what upbringing we had, or walk of life we came from, good or bad, we seem to all have the same mental / self esteem problems of not being OK with ourselves..." --- actually, this could be said for all.....alcoholics/addicts and non-alcoholics/non-addicts. I’m sure most have had these feeling at times, but not to the point of ruling their lives....some, both alcoholics/addicts and non-alcoholics/non-addicts alike.

Regarding a genetic difference between alcoholics/addicts and non-alcoholics/non-addicts, well, I believe is was a Harvard paper, in the last few years, that stated that while l