Message Boards and Forums Directory
ALCOHOL ADDICTION
12 STEPS
Discuss and learn more about these
following steps for AA
CHAT MEETINGS
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
NARCOTICS ADDICTION
12 STEPS
Discuss and learn more about these
following steps for NA

Go Back   SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information > Alcoholism Information > Alcoholism-12 Step Support
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room [1]


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-12-2008, 04:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
mjs
Member
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: martinsburg wv
Posts: 30
9th step ?

Has anyone heard the story reported in the washington post about a guy who confessed to a girl he raped over 20 years ago at UVA as part of his 9th step and ended up getting jail time? I have some stuff in my amends that while no where near this....my sponsor thinks I should fess up...when it says them or others does others include my family who would suffer for sure...
mjs is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 04:49 AM   #2 (permalink)
No more merlot, more mamma
 
NOMOMERLOTMAMMA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hills, Ct
Posts: 2,126
Blog Entries: 36
There's a good thread with lots of thoughts on 9th Step amends going right now..might help you. Helped me!
__________________
But I always think that the best way to know God is to love many things. ~Vincent van Gogh
NOMOMERLOTMAMMA is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 05:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
jimhere's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 2,322
It's in the book.
jimhere is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 05:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,284
Quote:
Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit.
My sponsor and I have spoken of this, if I wound up in prison due to fessing up to something to clean my side of the street will this bring harm to my wife and children?

Do I put myself ahead of my family to save myself?

This is where talking with ones sponsor is crucial, yes we need to be willing to make all amends, but not at the expense of others.

mjs not knowing what you speak of I will with hold any opinion, that is something that I would suggest you pray long and hard on and then speak to your sponsor at length on. If the amends are due and it will result in financial difficulties for you and your family, well that is something between you, your HP, and your sponsor.

If it was one of my sponsee's looking to make amends about something financial and it would crush him and his family by making amends immediately I would probably suggest he set aside money each payday until he could afford to make the amends and then do so without ruining his families finances.
__________________
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB

Follow directions!

Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006

Sober today thanks to AA
Tazman53 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 06:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
ananda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,122
The BB also talks about speaking with those who will be effected (like family, business partners etc.).

I have an amend my sponsor doesn't think I should make. I think I need to. But I will wait and not rush on it. pray meditate and the answer will come. My family who will be effected do not at this point support me making the ammend...but these things can change.
ananda is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 07:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Rob B's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 740
Blog Entries: 5
All or Nothing

God is everything or nothing, Like Jim said, directions on the 9th step are in the book, prayer, meditation and consultation with folks who have experience are important. I had amends that I was worried about as well, I was able to make them and today I am free. PM me if you would like some considerations.
__________________
Are You and I so Unalike?
Rob B is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 08:09 AM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
RufusACanal's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,872
Who has the Power, God or you? It's in the Book.
__________________
"Weather forecast for tonight: dark. Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning."


George Carlin

Excerpts from Original Manuscript of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous
RufusACanal is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 09:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Northern NYC 'Burbs, NY
Posts: 4
We just had a discussion about this in my Big Book meeting (we were reading page 78). One of the guys knew of someone who recently travelled from NY to FL to serve a couple days in jail.

One thing - he did involve a lawyer BEFORE making the amends. Maybe getting an idea of the actual possibilities, rather than projecting, would make this easier?

Ask your family - would they rather you do this amends, or go back to drinking?
cwilson066 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 02:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
God's Kid
 
lizw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
Of course God has the power but he/she/it gave us brains so we could think! And sure we are alcoholic and have done some stupid/dumb/harmful things but martyring ourselves isn't going to solve anything nor is it the point of step 9.

In the BB (round step 9) there is the story about the guy who owes money to his first wife etc... It would be well worth a read.

It would also be worth while asking a few old timers/long timers in your area rather than just taking your sponsors word as gospel.

When I first got sober there was a group of us that all use to kick round together and as I was going about making my amends one of the guys asked me if I was going to make direct amends to everyone I had harmed.

He asked because part of his story was that he was involved in gangs, mostly as a 'debt collector'. He told me he blew up someones house and asked if he would have to make direct amends for that in particular. He didn't go into the finer details like if the people knew it was him etc... But I told him I didn't have a clue and now (10 years later) I still don't have a clue. At the end of the day he never started his 4th step so went back drinking.

The BB directs wise counsel so I would encourage you to seek it, as I suggested, from old timers/long timers in your area and then when push comes to shove, it is between you and your god/hp.

Good luck. Whatever you decide to do it will be the right thing.

__________________
....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
lizw is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2008, 03:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
Is my work solid so far?
 
bballdad's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albemarle,N.C.
Posts: 2,024
I heard of the story
I believe he was wrong to contact her
he had no right to try and clear his conscience at her expense.He hurt her many years ago,and now he has hurt her again.He put her thru hell once,and now he`s done it again.He also hurt his family and himself.
But with that said,if he puts this whole situation in God`s hands,God will make the best of it.Some good can still come from it.
__________________
Faith should not stand in the wisdom of men,but in the Power of God
bballdad is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 05:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
when it says them or others does others include my family who would suffer for sure...
Yes it does include your family. That is pretty simple ( and in the book). I don't pay too much attention to those stories you hear in AA. We do like to spin yarns. But in all seriousness, I have known a few who have faced jail time in the making of amends, and if that is what it takes to make something right then I guess you and God have some talking to do. But only you can decide, make no amends because your sponsor says. Do them when you are ready ( but I hope you get ready!)
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 01:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
Life the gift of recovery!
 
nandm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 5,310
Here is one article that I found at CBS.com I have posted my thoughts below the article. I appologize for the length of my post but felt the need to share my thoughts.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man Sentenced For 1984 Rape

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va., March 15, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(AP) A man who sexually assaulted a University of Virginia student in 1984 and apologized to her two decades later as part of the Alcoholics Anonymous program was sentenced to 18 months in prison Thursday.

William Beebe, 42, pleaded guilty in November to one count of aggravated sexual battery for his attack on Liz Seccuro.

Charlottesville Circuit Court Judge Edward Hogshire ordered a 10-year prison sentence with all but 18 months suspended, as long as Beebe performs 500 hours of community service related to issues of sexual assault and alcohol abuse on college campuses. Prosecutors had recommended two years.

"I'm not trying to excuse my behavior, but I was a different person then," Beebe said. "I have a purpose, and that gives life meaning. I didn't have that then."

The case was revived in 2005 after Beebe wrote Seccuro a letter of apology in an attempt to make amends for the assault as part of AA's recovery program. The program's ninth step calls on alcoholics to make amends to those they have harmed, unless doing so would cause further injury. In an exchange of e-mails that ensued, Beebe wrote: "I want to make clear that I'm not intentionally minimizing the fact of having raped you. I did."

Seccuro, 40, of Greenwich, Conn., was given a drink at a party that made her feel strange, and she later passed out, leaving her memory hazy. She said she vividly recalls being attacked by Beebe, but always had a vague impression she'd been assaulted by additional members of the fraternity.

Beebe, of Las Vegas, originally was charged with rape and object sexual penetration and could have faced a sentence of life in prison if convicted. But in November, he entered into a plea deal after investigators uncovered new information suggesting Seccuro was attacked by more than one person that night.

Seccuro eventually called Charlottesville police to report what had happened. There is no statute of limitations on felonies in Virginia, and Beebe was arrested in Las Vegas.

Seccuro said that she reported the assault to university officials in 1984 but that a dean and the campus police treated her dismissively.

Seccuro, who says she has forgiven Beebe for assaulting her, said an apology is not a substitute for punishment. The attack changed her life dramatically, she said, and she deserves to finally see justice served.

Several people testifying on Beebe's behalf Thursday said he is a kind and generous friend who often helped other recovering substance abuse addicts.

"Will didn't tell me what to do, he showed me," said William Daniel Griggs Jr. of Richmond, who credited Beebe with helping in his recovery. He also said that Beebe helped care for his sick son several years ago.

Seccuro sat grimly through the testimony of Beebe's supporters. At one point she put a hand on the shoulder of her visibly agitated husband.

Prosecutor Claude Worrell described Beebe's decision to apologize as selfish, and said it traumatized Seccuro all over again. Defense attorney Rhonda Quagliana responded that it was "sad and tragic" that Beebe's apology was depicted that way, and said Securro made a choice to respond to his letter.

Securro, visibly shaken, left the courtroom. Later, Worrell shot back, "As it relates to Mr. Beebe, Elizabeth Seccuro has never had a choice."

Seccuro went public with her name and story, hoping to lead other sexual assault survivors to seek help. She launched STARS — Sisters Together Assisting Rape Survivors — to raise money for rape victims and their families.

Hogshire clearly struggled with the sentence, saying what Seccuro went through was horrific, but that Beebe went on to be a leader in the recovery community.

"Is he remorseful?" the judge asked. "I think so."



© MMVII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
As a woman who has been through sexual abuse and rape I am going to weigh in on this topic. Personally, I believe there is no excuse for rape whether it be "sorry, I was a drunk at the time" or whatever. I don't feel that simply because the guy got sober means he should not pay for the crime he committed. The bottom line is he did commit a crime. That crime left a victim, someone who's life was changed because of the choices he made. People may think that a rape or sexual assult is something the person should just get over or that the pain, fear, and anger just goes away with time. That is not the case. It is something that stays in the persons subconcious and affects all of their actions. It leaves the person a little on edge all the time, contributes to anxiety disorders, PTSD, depression, and many other mental health disorders. It can mean long term or life long therapy and many times medication. It can affect relationships with spouses or significant others. Anyone who has been married or in a relationship with a survivor of sexual abuse/assult can attest to the damage it does to the survivor.

That said my thought is why should the victim continue to pay for the crime for the rest of her life but yet the perpetrator get off scot free because he "is sober now and sorry for his actions"?

Making ammends is not about making ourselves feel better. It isn't about getting out of the consequences for our actions. It is about letting go of resentments, letting others heal, and paying for what we have done whether that be financial or physical (like jail time).

The part in the BB about not hurting others does not mean that we shouldn't pay for the crimes we committed. We are not included in the "others". If we were then why in the world would anyone make an ammends? When we make an ammends we have to be prepared for whatever it takes to make the ammends.

I personally think it took a lot of courage for the man to try to make ammends. From my perspective I wish that the person who commited the crime against me would have the courage to at least admit they did something wrong. That would help release some of the pain I have surrounding the issue.

Now for what the Big Book really says about Ammends rather than just my opinion. Although I will provide my opinion after each quote.

Bill W. expressed willingness
Quote:
I expressed my entire willingness to approach these individuals, admitting my wrong. Never was I to be critical of them. I was to right all such matters to the utmost of my ability.
This clearly states we are to be prepared to do whatever it takes to make matters right if at all possible.


Made direct ammends
Quote:
Made direct ammends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
This does not state that we are off the hook if it might injure us.

Ammends to God
Quote:
Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: "God, I offer myself to Thee---to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!
We must be willing
Quote:
We must be willing to make amends where we have done harm, provided that we do not bring about still more harm in so doing.

directions for making ammends
Quote:
Now we go out to our fellows and repair the damage done in the past. We attempt to sweep away the debris which has accumulated out of our effort to live on self-will and run the show ourselves. If we haven't the will to do this, we ask until it comes. Remember it was agreed at the beginning we would go to any lengths for victory over alcohol.
We falsly believe that by avoiding our responsibility to right our wrongs we have escaped punishment for them. When we think fo many of the people we have harmed, we feel the cringe of guilt and hope never to see them again. This self-imposed punishment is far worse than the humilation or judgment from others we fear we will recieve when we admit our mistakes. The replacement of our fear with the feeling of release brought about by our ammends is proof positive that this spiritual way of life works. This is spiritual experience that we can draw upon when faced with fear and doubt of what to do when we are in conflict with others.
The debris caused by our misapplication of self-will blocks us from God, hinders our progress, and chains us to the past. We must clear up these matters to be free to live our new lives. Not dealing with the harms we cause in a timely manner allows them to build up. This piling up of neglected responsibilities makes the load we carry in life unbearable. In the Eigth Step we learn how to right our wrongs and in the Tenth Step we learn how to prevent them from beginning to pile up again.

Quote:
.....It does not matter; however, if someone does throw us out of his office. We have made our demonstration, done our part. It's water over the dam.
..........Perhaps we have committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if known to the authorities.......We have already admitted this in confidence to another person, but we are sure we would be imprisonded or lose our job if it were known.........Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some generala principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequence may be. We may lose our position or reputation, or face jail, but are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything.
We make direct amends to those we have harmed except when to do so would harm them or others. We sometimes hear that we are to consider ourselves as one of the "others". This is not what the book says. We have avoided making amends because we feared the consequences, thus the weight of our misdeeds builds into an unbearable load. By facing the consequences, whatever they may be, we bring our faith in God to life. We do not make amends under our own power, but under the guidance and protection of God. There are some who believe that the making amends was wrong because it affected his family. To that I say read the Book. It talks about not implicating others by our amends but it does not say that we can justify not taking responsibility for our actions because it might hurt our family. If the man had been involved in a gang rape it would be wrong for him to tell who else was involved as that would be implicating others but he is still responsible for making amends for his part in the rape.


__________________
NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book

WHY DOGS LIVES ARE SO MUCH SHORTER THAN HUMANS:
People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice.

Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long


Last edited by nandm; 08-13-2008 at 01:37 PM.
nandm is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 02:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
ananda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,122
I have an ammend to make that may have legal consequences. It is on hold right now. This thread is of interest to me.

When I read the BB I read that If my amend will have a negative concequence to my family or business partners for example, that I should consult with them prior to making an amend.

I know that my family and workplace will have harm caused to them if I make this amend and the legal concequences result. That doesn't mean that I won't make the ammend....I have a very strong belief that I must make the amend as it truley would help relieve the suffering of the person I harmed.

However, since sponsors, friends, family all are dead set that it would be the wrong thing to do...I am not seeking out making the amend at this point. It's very difficult when I am truley committed to not harming people around me and harming people is actually always going to happen....this seems like a choice about which people I will hurt further.

When I learn more, I will share more, but I am more in the process of walking through this then having the expereince of the solution.
ananda is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 04:40 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
That said my thought is why should the victim continue to pay for the crime for the rest of her life but yet the perpetrator get off scot free because he "is sober now and sorry for his actions"?
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that making amends means we get off scott free. I am sorry you have suffered such a crime.

Quote:
We make direct amends to those we have harmed except when to do so would harm them or others. We sometimes hear that we are to consider ourselves as one of the "others".
Absolutely! But when it comes to "others" we need to be careful about the people other than ourselves who will be affected and weigh that against the amend to be made. I have known people who have willingly faced jail time in the hopes of making amends and bringing closure to those they harmed. Those people did not try to get off of anything. I know a man who did ten years in the state pen for crimes he did in his alcoholism.
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2008, 05:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
Life the gift of recovery!
 
nandm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by navysteve View Post
I don't think anyone here is suggesting that making amends means we get off scott free. I am sorry you have suffered such a crime.
I believe you misunderstood my statement or took it out of context. The question was in regards to whether the man should pay for his crime. I in no way said that making an amend was not a way to pay for it. I just asked a simple question of why should the victim be the one to pay while the man doesn't make an amend becuase he might have to suffer the consequences. The man did the right thing by making the amend. If you read the article it also states his sentance is not as bad as it would have been as even the judge had respect for the man standing up and taking responsibility for his actions.


Quote:
Absolutely! But when it comes to "others" we need to be careful about the people other than ourselves who will be affected and weigh that against the amend to be made. I have known people who have willingly faced jail time in the hopes of making amends and bringing closure to those they harmed. Those people did not try to get off of anything. I know a man who did ten years in the state pen for crimes he did in his alcoholism.
I still feel that it is way to easy for an alcoholic to use that as a cop out for not paying the consequences for his/her actions. "Oh my, I might have to go to jail and then my wife and kids would not have as much of an income." "Oh my, my wife will be mad at me and she might divorce me, that isn't fair to her." Just for the record "closure" is a word used by people who have not had these types of crimes commited against them. It is a lifelong process to recover from this type of crime.
__________________
NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book

WHY DOGS LIVES ARE SO MUCH SHORTER THAN HUMANS:
People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice.

Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long

nandm is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 11:12 AM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
" Just for the record "closure" is a word used by people who have not had these types of crimes commited against them. It is a lifelong process to recover from this type of crime.
No offense, but you don't know the first thing about me or what crimes were committed against me. I find that statement very offensive
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 05:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
Life the gift of recovery!
 
nandm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by navysteve View Post
No offense, but you don't know the first thing about me or what crimes were committed against me. I find that statement very offensive
And you know nothing about me. I did not intend to offend you and do appologize. Your attack on me I also found offensive but let it go since I know you know nothing about me or where I am coming from.
__________________
NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book

WHY DOGS LIVES ARE SO MUCH SHORTER THAN HUMANS:
People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice.

Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long

nandm is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 07:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
navysteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pennsylvania
Posts: 1,685
I never attacked you or your views
__________________
No rhetoric
Just results

All Big Book quotes are from first edition
navysteve is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2008, 11:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
Life the gift of recovery!
 
nandm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 5,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by navysteve View Post
I never attacked you or your views
OK then lets leave well enough alone.
__________________
NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book

WHY DOGS LIVES ARE SO MUCH SHORTER THAN HUMANS:
People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice.

Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long

nandm is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2008, 03:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
Follow Directions!
 
Tazman53's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,284
Quote:
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol.
.
__________________
All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB

Follow directions!

Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006

Sober today thanks to AA
Tazman53 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2008, 11:05 AM   #21 (permalink)
Life the gift of recovery!
 
nandm's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 5,310
Thanks Taz, my thank you button doesn't work. I sometimes need a reminder especially around topics that are very close to the heart. This one was especially close to me as I can view it from both sides of the fence. Not that I ever raped someone while drunk but I have done stupid things such as drive with my kids in the car while drunk. I also have a huge amount of respect for the man for following through with the amends and being willing to face the consequences for his action. From the victims point of view though I can understand wanting him to pay for his crime. It really leaves me in a position of being very torn on the subject which in turn has left me a little on edge in my responses.
__________________
NOTE: All Big Book quotes are from the First Edition of the Big Book

WHY DOGS LIVES ARE SO MUCH SHORTER THAN HUMANS:
People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life -- like loving everybody all the time and being nice.

Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don't have to stay as long

nandm is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 08:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
God's Kid
 
lizw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
As a female member of AA, and like most woman I know in AA, I've survived sexual abuse/rape as a child, a teenager and on the downward slide into AA.

I think the whole sexual abuse/rape arena (if one can call it that) is a VERY sensitive topic in AA, just like it is in the real world.

What I wanted to say was that AA is the only place where I have seen victims and abusers get well, side by side.

__________________
....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
lizw is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 08:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
Member
 
kj3880's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 2,795
It is tricky. I'm a victim of one date rape and one attempted stranger rape. Neither attacker has ever apologized. The stranger did time for the attempt, but I never tried to prosecute the date rapist, as I was afraid no one would believe me at the time (I was very young).

I wonder how I would react to an apology? I think that it would scare me that a person who was sexually obsessed with me had figured out a way to contact me, even if a lawyer was used, and I might worry he was using the amend as a way to get back in touch.

On the other hand, I am still angry at times that he never had any known consequences for the rape. I am angry at me for not telling on him, too.

In a related story, In a meeting, we have a member with many years sober who talks openly about how he cannot stop his patterns of using prostitutes. It is affecting me. I never was a prostitute, but it just is a power thing for him the way he talks about the women he uses. I can tell that he enjoys this particular share, and he doesn't seem at all ashamed. I think talking about it in front of us women who are all uncomforable to hear it, is a turn on and power trip for him, like rape and sometimes paying for sex can be.

I can't stand to hear him talk about this subject. He often adds at the end of his sharing about this that he will make sure not to date any newcomers (as he says this, he sometimes even points at me and the other new girl that sits next to me) until we have at least a year sober because he doesn't want to damage our sobriety. As if I'd have anything to do with him, like, ever...ewwww.

Am I off the topic? I'm sorry for the rant. I Just got on the subject of people with power/sex addictions. It is tricky, for sure. Just to let you all know, I don't respond to his share in any way, but it sure does creep me out. Thanks for letting me share.
KJ
kj3880 is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 09:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
God's Kid
 
lizw's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by kj3880 View Post
In a related story, In a meeting, we have a member with many years sober who talks openly about how he cannot stop his patterns of using prostitutes.
If you feel comfortable, you could try suggesting to him SLAA may help. A lot of the guys there have the same problem.

I can laugh now, but when I started attending their meetings, I had this god awful moment where I realised one of the members who had this problem, the prostitutes, (but has a few years soberity on acting out in it) is probably one of my former clients....had this same experinece in a AA meeting too, few years back. My sponsor at the time thought it was pretty funny and suggested we'd make a good couple in soberity. Ha,ha. It was funny, in that black humor kind of way.
__________________
....blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God.
lizw is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2008, 09:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
Member
 
kj3880's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 2,795
I think it just bothers me more than any other addiction because he is using actual people to acheive his high. At least with drugs or alcohol, an addict is not smoking or drinking an actual person (although we can really damage some actual people in our addictions to substances, too). It just so creeps me out that he doesn't really get that sex addiction, especially when you are using others, isn't any better than drinking or drugging. He always says at the end of his shares "At least I'm not using, though."

I know I'm gonna hear about this but hey, I'd rather he used drugs than women. What do you all think? I need to heal my own sick spirit? I still have resentments from what happened to me, I guess, that I need to step into. I need to not be angry about it, but I can't seem to help how I feel toward him. I talked to my temp. sponsor about this feeling, and she said that for now, just stay away from him and "work on you." Wise advice, I'm sure. I'm not allowed to roll my eyes when he talks either..lol.
KJ
kj3880 is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:51 PM.


 

© 2007 SoberRecovery, LLC.
A proud member of the SoberRecovery® Network of Addiction and Recovery Websites

The SoberRecovery Forums are operated under a grant from The Mulligan Group


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 1184 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 1190 1191 1192 1193 1194 1195 1196 1197 1198 1199 1200 1201 1202 1203 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 1254 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 1317 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 1339 1340 1341 1342 1343 1344 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 1350 1351 1352 1353 1354 1355 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 1365 1366 1367 1368 1369 1370 1371 1372 1373 1374 1375 1376 1377 1378 1379 1380 1381 1382 1383 1384 1385 1386 1387 1388 1389 1390 1391 1392 1393 1394 1395 1396 1397 1398 1399 1400 1401 1402 1403 1404 1405 1406 1407 1408 1409 1410 1411 1412 1413 1414 1415 1416 1417 1418 1419 1420 1421 1422 1423 1424 1425 1426 1427 1428 1429 1430 1431 1432 1433 1434 1435 1436 1437 1438 1439 1440 1441 1442 1443 1444 1445 1446 1447 1448 1449 1450 1451 1452 1453 1454 1455 1456 1457 1458 1459 1460 1461 1462 1463 1464 1465 1466 1467 1468 1469 1470 1471 1472 1473 1474 1475 1476 1477 1478 1479 1480 1481 1482 1483 1484 1485 1486 1487 1488 1489 1490 1491 1492 1493 1494 1495 1496 1497 1498 1499 1500 1501 1502 1503 1504 1505 1506 1507 1508 1509 1510 1511 1512 1513 1514 1515 1516 1517 1518 1519 1520 1521 1522 1523 1524 1525 1526 1527 1528 1529 1530 1531 1532 1533 1534 1535 1536 1537 1538 1539 1540 1541 1542 1543 1544 1545 1546 1547 1548 1549 1550 1551 1552 1553 1554 1555 1556 1557 1558 1559 1560 1561 1562 1563 1564 1565 1566 1567 1568 1569 1570 1571 1572 1573 1574 1575 1576 1577 1578 1579 1580 1581 1582 1583 1584 1585 1586 1587 1588 1589 1590 1591 1592 1593 1594 1595 1596 1597 1598 1599 1600 1601 1602 1603 1604 1605 1606 1607 1608 1609 1610 1611 1612 1613 1614 1615 1616 1617 1618 1619 1620 1621 1622 1623 1624 1625 1626 1627 1628 1629 1630 1631 1632 1633 1634 1635 1636 1637 1638 1639 1640 1641 1642 1643 1644 1645 1646 1647 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 1653 1654 1655 1656 1657 1658 1659 1660 1661 1662 1663 1664 1665 1666 1667 1668 1669 1670 1671 1672 1673 1674 1675 1676 1677 1678 1679 1680 1681 1682 1683 1684 1685 1686 1687 1688 1689 1690 1691 1692 1693 1694 1695 1696 1697 1698 1699 1700 1701 1702 1703 1704 1705 1706 1707 1708 1709 1710 1711 1712 1713 1714 1715 1716 1717 1718 1719 1720 1721 1722 1723 1724 1725 1726 1727 1728 1729 1730 1731 1732 1733 1734 1735 1736 1737 1738 1739 1740 1741 1742 1743 1744 1745 1746 1747 1748 1749 1750 1751 1752 1753 1754 1755 1756 1757 1758 1759 1760 1761 1762 1763 1764 1765 1766 1767 1768 1769 1770 1771 1772 1773 1774 1775 1776 1777 1778 1779 1780 1781 1782 1783 1784 1785 1786 1787 1788 1789 1790 1791 1792 1793 1794 1795 1796 1797 1798 1799 1800 1801 1802 1803 1804 1805 1806 1807 1808 1809 1810 1811 1812 1813 1814 1815 1816 1817 1818 1819 1820 1821 1822 1823 1824 1825 1826 1827 1828 1829 1830 1831 1832 1833 1834 1835 1836 1837 1838 1839 1840 1841 1842 1843 1844 1845 1846 1847 1848 1849 1850 1851 1852 1853 1854 1855 1856 1857 1858 1859 1860 1861 1862 1863 1864 1865 1866 1867 1868 1869 1870 1871 1872 1873 1874 1875 1876 1877 1878 1879 1880 1881 1882 1883 1884 1885 1886 1887 1888 1889 1890 1891 1892 1893 1894 1895 1896 1897 1898 1899 1900 1901 1902 1903 1904 1905 1906 1907 1908 1909 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 1919 1920 1921 1922 1923 1924 1925 1926 1927 1928 1929 1930 1931 1932 1933 1934 1935 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1950 1951 1952 1953 1954 1955 1956 1957 1958 1959 1960 1961 1962 1963 1964 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 2030 2031 2032 2033 2034 2035 2036 2037 2038 2039 2040 2041 2042 2043 2044 2045 2046 2047 2048 2049 2050 2051 2052 2053 2054 2055 2056 2057 2058 2059 2060 2061 2062 2063 2064 2065 2066 2067 2068 2069 2070 2071 2072