Working a dishonest program, what do I do?

[odaat]

I'm feeling a bit confused about what I do next.

I'm 20 months sober - half of that in AA. I've been working the steps with my sponsor.

I started having an affair four months ago. My sponsor has no experience of this, and doesn't know what to say or suggest.

She thinks that I can't get well while being dishonest.

I've not found recovery easy, and the affair started when I had a very low period. I had a suicide attempt not too long after it started, and still struggling with acute anxiety and depression, not to mention food/self-harm issues.

I have one 'friend' in AA, who to be honest I feel much close to, and apart from in name, I kinda view him as my sponsor. He is having a long-term affair and has been sober for a large number of days.

Does anyone else have experience of recovery and affairs?

[TTOSBT]

No, I do not. But I do see a problem with you justifying it a little with the friend in AA having a large number of days and a long time affair.
Number of days does not equal recovery.
If you just want to not drink, you "may" be able to stay dry through this, but IMO you will not be recovering.
HOW is everything. And honestly, you do not sound very willing right now. I have to put my sobriety first.
Why an affair?

BTW, LOOK AT YOUR TAGLINE!!!!!!!!!

[RufusACanal]

Get honest.

[odaat]

The guy has very strong sobriety, and I identify with him an awful lot. We talk about it alot, and he helps me to understand how I feel and why I'm doing things. That said, I know that if you talk to enough people, one of them will tell you what you want to hear.

I'm not sure why I'm having an affair. Honestly, it wasn't intentional, I didn't start out thinking 'I want an affair', and neither did the other guy.

I think my issue is that I don't really identify with my sponsor anymore, and we have very different ideas of right/wrong, and what is acceptable. My husband and I have had/do have a very 'colourful' relationship, and while I think that makes my affair more understandable, I can't discuss those facts with my sponsor.

[odaat]

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Get honest.

Who with? With myself? My Sponsor? My husband?

[RufusACanal]

Originally Posted by odaat

I'm not sure why I'm having an affair. Honestly, it wasn't intentional, I didn't start out thinking 'I want an affair', and neither did the other guy.

Today could be the beginning of a new life for you ODAAT or it could be the stepping off point for more pain and suffering. I will not beat you with morality, but you might want to look at your principles and values.

If you have to ask about who to be honesty to then you are not practicing enough honesty. Having affairs while married is a conscious choice, just like picking up the first drink. What do you want to do, live free or continue to lie to yourself and others?

[sugErspun]

I agree with your sponsor about not being able to get well while continuing to lead a dishonest life.


Have you done a fourth step? Part of that is the formation of an ideal for sexual behavior and attitude.

Do you have an ideal? Are you in conflict with it?

It could lead back to drinking.

[sailorjohn]

Originally Posted by odaat

The guy has very strong sobriety, and I identify with him an awful lot.

Not being judgmental here, but how strong is this guys 'sobriety' if he's having an affair with a married person? Getting away from the basic morality, how honest is this other person? Do you think an honest person has affairs with married people? One last thought, are you using the sex as a drug of choice?

[CarolD]

I have not had to deal with the many issues you have
cutting.....food... alcoholism.. ...marriage...adultry.

I strongly suggest seeing an addictionologist.
Prayers for your peace...

[odaat]

Originally Posted by CarolD

I strongly suggest seeing an addictionologist.
Prayers for your peace...

Unfortunately I'm in the UK, and the NHS has limited resources. I'm getting all the help they'll give me at the moment.

Originally Posted by sailorjohn

Not being judgmental here, but how strong is this guys 'sobriety' if he's having an affair with a married person? Getting away from the basic morality, how honest is this other person? Do you think an honest person has affairs with married people? One last thought, are you using the sex as a drug of choice?

My friend in AA is married, and having an affair with a single woman. Knowing the circumstances of his relationships, I can understand why he is having the affair.

I wondered about using sex as a drug, as I did used to have a lot of casual sex to fill the void. That stopped when I met the other guy though, so I don't think its a problem.

I wonder about honesty - its something we often discuss at meetings. One old-timer often says that morals are just a personal interpretation of right and wrong, and if we are honest with ourselves, our HP and our sponsor, that is enough.

Originally Posted by sugErspun

I agree with your sponsor about not being able to get well while continuing to lead a dishonest life.


Have you done a fourth step? Part of that is the formation of an ideal for sexual behavior and attitude.

Do you have an ideal? Are you in conflict with it?

It could lead back to drinking.

I did my 4th and 5th step about 6 months ago. I was suprised to find (put) myself in a similar situations to those I'd written about in my Step Four.

I don't really feel that in conflict, I know it isn't 'perfectly right' by other peoples' standards, but it does feel 'comfortable' and 'understandable' for me. I do have guilt, but then again I have guilt about many things, which are logically nothing to do with me, so I don't trust my feelings of guilt.

[odaat]

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

If you have to ask about who to be honesty to then you are not practicing enough honesty. Having affairs while married is a conscious choice, just like picking up the first drink. What do you want to do, live free or continue to lie to yourself and others?

I am still unclear about who I have to be honest with. Does my recovery depend upon being honest with my husband? Why?

[RufusACanal]

Maybe you have a marriage that allows for complete dishonesty. I have heard of open marriages but that is beyond my ability to understand. Do you value integrity, do you value trust? These are several basic values that stem from honesty.

My recovery depends on me being honest. If I lie, I am opening the door to chaos and chaos left unchecked returns me to the drink.

ODAAT, if it just about sex, why be married? If you need more than your marriage can provide, end the marriage and do as you wish. Why hurt another with your own selfish needs?

[odaat]

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Maybe you have a marriage that allows for complete dishonesty. I have heard of open marriages but that is beyond my ability to understand. Do you value integrity, do you value trust? These are several basic values that stem from honesty.

My recovery depends on me being honest. If I lie, I am opening the door to chaos and chaos left unchecked returns me to the drink.

ODAAT, if it just about sex, why be married? If you need more than your marriage can provide, end the marriage and do as you wish. Why hurt another with your own selfish needs?

I'm don't want to end my marriage. I don't want to end my affair. In the long term, I will chose, but I'm not ready to make that descison.

I'm not sure how much hurt there would be. Both me and my husband have been unfaithful in the past, and do have an 'open' agreement. The feelings involved are more than he'd like. Although he isn't totally aware, he does say he'd rather have me as I am, than not have me.

I'm not sure.

[TTOSBT]

I am going to have to step off this thread now because my idea of yours and marriage are very different. I believe very strongly in the institution of marriage and the commitment and the partnership. I do not believe that there is ever a "reason" or circumstance where it is "understandable" that someone is unfaithful. Why not just leave so you don't have to lie?
Why get married if you can justify betraying them? I just don't get it???

IMO, that is self will run riot.....

[RufusACanal]

I probably should end my remarks at this point before I write something I will regret. Have a good life ODAAT.

[Sheryl85]

May I suggest that you read in the Big Book starting on page 68 and keep reading to the end of that chapter? You'll know the paragraph I'm talking about because it starts with "And now about sex . . . "

To answer one of your questions, the one person above all others you have to be honest with is "yourself." From what you have describe of your actions you need to try and build a relationship with the person in the mirror. It sounds like you keep trying to hurt that person in various ways. I cannot express this enough . . . it's time to get some help! If possible you need to find someone of the same sex in the program that you respect who has a working knowledge of the Steps who can guide you through this situation since you seem to be having a break down in communications with your sponsor. Regardless of whether you do this or not you need to seek help either in the program or professionally. Don't flounder around out there on your own. Remember that your best thinking got you where you are today. And before you do anything you will regret later (like telling your husband) remember that when in doubt . . . DON'T! Don't hurt others by your words or actions. Confession may be good for the soul, but sometime you need to save it for a shrink, priest or your 5th Step. Let someone else help guide you through these murky waters.

Good luck!

[lizw]

You may want to check them out, bearing in mind they are not a replacement for AA but more like another tool you can use.

What is Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous? | Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous

Most people I've met in this fellowship are also members of other 12 step groups (AA & NA etc..) but have found that these programs alone haven't helped with their sex and love lives.

You're also welcome to PM me if you want to talk further about this.

Take it easy.

[miss communicat]

having an affair is what brought me BACK to sobriety. It was THAT painful and self destructive to ME.

I was not the married person, he was. (And, odaat, seeing that you live in the UK, I almost expect that you are living in a culture with a slightly differing mindset regarding extra-marital affairs than most US posters on this board. I lived in Europe, and DO understand that we Americans are considered to be quite puritanistic with our silly little idealisms regarding such concepts as fidelity in marriage, and that the Europeans in general take a broader view of affairs. I found there to be acceptance of loving other partners both inside as well as outside of marriage vows to be built in to the Eurpean institution....my partner was Italian. (Well, he still IS Italian.lol)

But as regards sobriety: MY experience is that the more emotional pain I created for myself, the more I needed to numb it. I drank more, and lied more. Lying became my life. I no longer knew what the truth was. I lost my moral compass as well as my conscience and my heart followed soon after. I felt no love for myself in loving a married man. I knew I was causing harm and pain to his wife, yet I didn't care. I numbed that out, too.

Oh, and yes. My best friend in this period was my former AA sponsor who was herself involved in an affair. She encouraged me to explore this stupid dalliance which I did, as a way to ameliorate her own self loathing and guilt. She had good sobriety too. (not)

All I can offer you is what I did:
1. I stopped the affair. (Got honest with myself)
2. Went to AA meetings and focused on women's meetings mostly for a long time, and got honest with the women and my (new) sponsor.
3. Did not drink one day at a time. This means I was able to process the emotions.
4. I took inventory with my sponsor. (Steps 4 + 5)
5. Did not Drink.

The man I had the affair with is still a friend, but it is SO over. Its been 3 years now. I would no sooner have an affair that cannot be out in the light of day than I would play Russian Roulette.

I urge you to take a break and start inventory.

Best luck!

[ananda]

Working the 12 steps is how I learned what I beive and started living by what I believe. And as I begin to live by what I think I believe and inventory each day, I often learn that my values are different than what i thought.

The main thing is that if I work the steps I am able to identify what principles I believe I need to live by. And if I do that my concerns about what others will think is much less of an impact. For me compassion toward others is the overiding principle.

[bballdad]

odaat
Miss C and Sheryl said a lot.
I was doing the same in my early sobriety.I had to get honest with my self about my dishonesty.I knew I could not do step 3 while doing what I was doing.I could not turn my life and will over to any God worth 2 cents and continue on in my dishonesty.
I`m not talking about being holy and righteous,I`m talking about a alcoholic getting sober and staying sober.I knew I could not stay sober doing what I was doing.Sure I could look at others but they wasn`t me.I suggest you get honest with yourself about your dishonesty.Do not compare yourself to some dude that attends AA that may be doing the same.
I really doubt he has any substantial amount of quality sobriety anyway.
If you look around,find someone who is happy and isn`t doing it.If you don`t,you are almost sure to get drunk.