Finishing step 9????????????

[Tazman53]

You know in reviewing my amends list there are quite a few folks that I have no idea what thier names are, where they are, or in many cases what they even look like. I remain willing to make the amends if I ever do recall the name or see them again.

For me it seems as though I will never complete step 9, this I accept, I can not let this eat at me because it serves no purpose. I remain willing and some how I know that one day some of these folks will come into my life again to allow me to make amends.

The reason I posted this is because I saw someone post they had "Finished" step 9........ I am sure I am not alone in this.

[Time2Surrender]

No your not alone in this by any means.

There may be some wrongs we can never right

Some people cannot be seen. We send them an honest letter.

We practice spiritual progress. Not perfection

(not sure if the word "Spiritual" is in that last one) Its 5:30 am and Im still half asleep. Anyway, I see myself on step nine for years. Especially some of the financial amends. I had a girl friend killed in a car accident. I wrote her a couple letters. One, I tied to a ballon. Another time I wrote her a letter, prayed, then burned it.

[Sugah]

My amends to my children involve me staying sober, one day at a time. I hope I never finish that one....

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[tommyk]

"I remain willing to make the amends if I ever do recall the name or see them again."

That's basically it.

I lived in Europe for 6 years, getting drunk, wreaking havoc, leaving a trail of pissed off people and carnage in my wake. There's no way I'll ever see them again. I made amends to them in my mind and on paper, I remain EAGER to see any and all of them for a face-to-face amends.

Talk to your sponsor some, maybe he'll give you some direction.

[Mala09]

The Steps are a lifelong process. Many older members I know have done Steps 4 & 5 twice in a couple of decades to get at the deeper issues. We go on making amends for years, as I understand it. Those friends who forgave me verbally still need time to forgive and trust me again and I need to work on humility in restoring the relationship.

The amends in Step 9 are essentially all about those we have hurt. They are not about us. We do the amends to the best of our ability and remain willing to carry out further amends when possible. They are done to help those we have hurt and harmed, they are not just a way of enhancing our own sobriety. Amends go to the heart of broken relationship and our essential selfishness as alcoholics.

If we have done the amends thoroughly, there is great peace of mind. If not, if we skimp over them or lie to ourselves in self-justifying ways, the Step remains a source of tension and anxiety. The same is true of Steps 4 & 5.

Each day I redo Steps1, 2, 3, reaffirming my surrender and reminding myself I cannot drink.

Each day I find myself falling short of the maturity and commitment needed for Steps 6 & 7 although I understand more, and the trust deepens, with each month of sobriety.

At the time I made my list for Step 8, although I was very willing to make amends, I didn't understand how deeply I had hurt some people and so I need to go back and review that list from time to time, and there are those I have hurt and offended while sober, through my emotional immaturity and long-engrained selfishness. New amends to clean house.

Where I cannot locate people I once harmed, I do service work as a substitute until I meet them. This rubs the edges off my selfishness and makes me more open and willing to do more in order to grow in compassion and humanity.

Step 10 speaks for all the Steps and is part of my daily discipline in sobriety. Step 12 and the opportunities to reach out to those still suffering has brought me more joy and steadiness in sobriety than any other aspect of my new life.

I expect to be still hoping to get somewhere with Step 11 on my deathbed -- faith is a gift and not something I can control or 'expect'. But the relatedness is there, a connectedness I did not know before sobering up.

When I saw the Steps as an integrated whole and began to let them work in me, I changed and sobriety became the only way forward.

Love & peace to you

Mala

[Tazman53]

My sponsor and I have spoken about this, step 9 is one that takes acceptance and continual awareness and willingness. I make amends where I can and remain willing to do others as the opportunity arises. I will go to my grave working on my ongoing amends to my family. Does any of this consume me? No, I have learned that I simply need to be willing to make the amends when I have the opportunity, to do service work and to take every opportunity to help folks who need help whether they are a fellow alcoholic or not.

When I pass on the the other side I feel that I will be able to totally finish my amends.

Thanks for the replies folks, the main reason I posted this is because some one said they had finished their step 9 amends. I just have to accept that after 40 years of drinking I left a trail of people I have hurt from one coast to the other. Lots of time, a lot of people, and a lot of hurt, I just remain willing and striving for progress.

[benblesed5]

The fact that you are speaking of this is part of the program, amd shows your willingness to go to any length. With me I have worked all steps many times over, the longer I live the program the more it becomes natural to just live and let G-d handle those things out of my control. I also worried about those I hurt during black outs, and other states, many of those I have run into today and been able to make amends, many I have not, but as you and the others have said, the willingness to do so, and true remorse in my heart is sufficient today.

[navysteve]

The Steps are a lifelong process. Many older members I know have done Steps 4 & 5 twice in a couple of decades to get at the deeper issues. We go on making amends for years, as I understand it. Those friends who forgave me verbally still need time to forgive and trust me again and I need to work on humility in restoring the relationship.

Very true. They are practiced as a way of life. I personnaly try to work 6them with a sponsor every year. particularly 4 and 5, as I often find myself reaching different levels. I do not believe in being done the steps, of course this is semantics. I like to view them as healthy habits which evolve over a period of time

[Jfanagle]

Taz,

I am not sure if I am that "someone" you read, but I recently did write that I had, "finished" step 9. I did so because in the list from step 4 of those I had harmed I have been able to reach resolution in my mind. It is important from "my viewpoint" that I continue to make those living amends that will complete amends to children, family members and co-workers. This of course is a continual process and through step 10 I will continue to make amends when I have wronged someone.

In my opinion the amends process is continual just as growth in sobriety is a life long process. I hope this will lend some clarity to my statement. As usual, how I view my program may differ from how another sees theirs. If my comment seemed to be not in keeping with anyone's views, best that others use the Big Book and understand that I have yet to publish my own!!

Taz, we share so many common views that I just thought I should write, because of the amount of ????????? marks that my musings seemed to have caused you.

I remain as confused as ever,

Jon

[Peter]

I don't suppose we ever really "finish" Step 9.

Step 9 is an ongoing process that could very well last the rest of our lives. That being said there are a few operative phrases in this Step that warrants some careful scrutiny.

Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, "except when to do so would injure them or others"

There are people I have harmed whom i will never meet again in my natural life. Obviously there is no possible way I can make "direct" amends to them.

I can choose to remain sober for the rest of my life and strive to become a better person and hopefully the postive impacts I have on other people lives will someday be paid forward. This is an "Indirect" way of making amends.

But there is one person in particular whom i know I harmed a great deal through my words and my actions whom i have long wished i was able to make amends to. But that person had long moved on and I had no way of contacting her.

For years I agonized over the remorse i felt for what i had done.However I had to content myself with writing a letter of apology to that person. I remember i cried with shame and regret when i wrote that letter. My sponsor told me to burn the letter when I was done reading it back to him but I didn't............I kept it for years.

Anyway, long story short. Some new information came to light a couple years ago about where that person could be contacted. Reports i heard confirmed that she was married and had two children and was reasonably happy in her life.

I wanted so bad to contact her and to finally deliver my letter to her......but by then i was able to see that further contact with this person could only cause her more harm by rekindling painful memories and that I was also looking for a way to unberden my own guilt. I know i could have been wrong but I destroyed the letter rather than risk causing her any unnecessary pain.

Step 9 calls for tact, prudence and sound judgement. I have a feeling i made the right choices. I can only now pray for her happiness.

[RufusACanal]

By the time I got to Step Nine, I was ready to begin facing the deeper consequences of my past actions. Nine integrates into my daily life affairs now; if a situation arises, I act. The only thing I have completed on Nine is the acceptance that when able, I must be ready. I definitely like Peter's last comment on tact, prudence and sound judgment for without these first, my amends will turn to ashes.

[lizw]

This week (Friday) I will be sharing my recently written inventory with my sponsor, and I am 10 years sober today.

I pretty much know that from that inventory, I will have more people to add to my amends list. My 1st ever orginal amends list probably only has 3 or 4 people left on it.

I've taken inventory (with a sponsor) nearly every year since I got sober and my list has continued to grow and grow and grow. I think the longer I stay sober, the more what I deem 'acceptable behaviour' changes.

I also think it has a lot to do with memory too as a few years ago I went back to one of the colleges I attended and made amends to a teacher who was very kind to me, despite the fact I was always in trouble for not turning up to class, smoking at school and drinking etc... But before we could talk she left me alone in her office for a few minutes where I was struck with this overwhelming desire to go through her desk and shelves. Why? Well, as I sat there I remebered doing just that when I was a student at the college...

I did wanted to say there is maybe 2 amends on my list that I have never made and may never will, even though it was suggested to me by my 1st sponsor.

The 1st one is my daughters father.
My sponsor suggested to me I make amends to him for my part in our sick relationship and give him the oppertunity to see his child. In the last year I have done the later part of this and my daughter now sees him maybe once a month. However I believe to even bring up our previous relationship would be a bad move. It wasn't even really a relationship. Just two people abusing each other and even though I know he is just a guy, he's not god, I think there is a part of me that will always fear him - as he is still pretty unpredictable.

The 2nd is my grandfather.
My parents sent me to live with my grandparents, when I was a teen, in the hopes of 'getting me to behave myself'. And most nights consisted of me crying into my dinner while my grandfather verbally abused me. Since I started going to Al Anon (bot 5 years ago) I began to see this period of my life a little different to how I did when I got sober. I.e. I orginally thought I was 'bad,bad,bad' so people had a right to treat me badly. These days I think I was just a kid surrounded by sick adults who couldn't cope. So while I have never direclty talked about this with my grandfather, I do try and take an interest in his life and do things for him like selling his stuff on internet auction sites, when he asks me too etc...

I didn't mean to write so much! But there you are.

One last thing I have to add, is a friend of mine once told me how proud he was of himself for going round making amend's when he first got sober, then when he was about 10 years he had to go back to some of the people and make an amends for bringing up what were probably quite awful memories for them. He was making amends for making amends! Ha,ha.

Good judgement and a good sense of timing, as the BB says.


Liz

[AW2486]

Congrats on 10 yrs Liz !!!

My Face to Face amends were done early on .. Helps when My parents were both A/D counselors. And others were just glad to see me not drinking anymore.

Its the Financial amends that I have the problem with.

[dgillz]

Step 9 - "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."

Obviously the amends is not possible at this point. Taz, you are right on, being willing to make the amends if and when the opportunity presents itself. Maybe God will put some of these people back in your life.

[Sugah]

Sidebar:



Happy Sober Birthday, Liz!!

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Tazman53]

I am not sure if I am that "someone" you read, but I recently did write that I had, "finished" step 9.

Jon it was you!!!! LOL Brother I do love you and your post, I respect you greatly and all that you say. I certainly was not calling you out or doubting you or your program. You really did not need to explain, what you gave in explanation is pretty much what I thought you meant over all any how.

Jon you simply caused me to think... a very dangerous thing at times..... a good thing at other times. It brought me to a point of personal reflection on who I was in the past and who I am today. Looking back at who I was I am well aware that I hurt quite a few ladies in my past just for my own personal gratification, I lied, I decieved, I manipulated them, all with but one goal..... my self gratification, names and faces for many of them were lost years ago due to being in an alcohol induced haze at the time, or simply because they did not matter to me then, I and my pleasure were the center of the universe.

Most, if not all of these women I would probably cause them more harm by bringing up what happened in their past due to my actions, possibly not, if the opportunity arose I would have to be very certain of where they were in thier present life before I would even consider making face to face amends to them. What I did to them could dredge up some old memories and feelings for them that are better left in the dark recesses of thier memories.

There is one womans husband I know I emotionally wrecked him, I was a heartless b@stard, he begged me to leave his wife (the mother of his children) alone to give them a chance to reconcile their marriage, I looked him in his tear filled eyes and told him no! They are back together today, the children are grown, I am the only one to gain anything by making amends to him, I would surely bring him back to a place I am sure he never wants to know again if I brought that up. The dog is asleep, and I will let him lie.

Jon what you said caused me to reflect again on how I am making amends for those parts of my life that face to face amends would cause more harm to those I wronged. What do I do? Well first and foremost, I no longer behave like that, second thing I do is when the opportunity presents itself for me to share the harm caused to women by scoundrels like I used to be I do so. I also keep an eye out for potential 13th steppers in the rooms. Of course I have asked and been granted forgiveness.

The shares on this thread have been awesome, I have learned a lot and I am sure others have as well.

[RufusACanal]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW 10 Years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Congrats Liz!!!!!!!

[Tazman53]

WOW!!!!! Liz I missed that today was your 10 year mark, congrats!

[lizw]

Thanks for the bday wishes.

I randomly heard from two AA friends out of the blue yesterday, wishing me happy birthday too. Neither live in my city either!

I did discuss (with another friend) going to a meeting,calling everyone m**f**rs and throwing a chair, to celebrate.

My friend and I have this ongoing joke about doing that since it happened a lot at the AA meetings in the seperate treatments centres we were residents in.

I think I might hold off on that action though, at least till I am 20. Then it will be more of a surprise to the meeting....

[RufusACanal]

“A local man was jailed today for disturbing the peace and additional charged with inciting a riot at an area church during anonymous cult gathering. Witnesses report man simply went the f*** off, throwing chairs, yelling obscene profanities while smiling deliriously and repeating his first name and last initial as if in a trance. Witnesses added that this was an isolated incident and the neighborhood surrounding the church is used to irregular events. Details at 10.”

[lizw]

Ha,ha,ha, that's great.

The other one we joke about is a revised verison of the first one where:

I give someone the evils in the meeting, then (after the right period of time, 2 minutes maybe) scream at them 'what the f**k are you looking at?' then throw the chair...leave the meeting,slamming the door on my way out....

Optional extra is to yell FTW (f##k the world) as I drive away, that would probably also depend on my sponsor being present...

Isn't it great getting well in Alcoholics Anonymous?

[Tazman53]

Liz I would pay to see that!!!! LOL Maybe you could flip a table over for good measure and tear up a "Where & When"..... Possibly you could inform them all that you are now cured and you are heading off to the Do-Drop Inn!!!!

[RufusACanal]

Retraction; this reporter would like to extent his heartfelt apologies for misrepresenting the sex of the perpetrator in the article concerning the anonymous cult activity at an area church yesterday. Let it be noted that women are just as insane and capable of going the F*** off as any man and probably with more style and definitely more grace. The article should have read;

“A local woman was jailed today for disturbing the peace and additional charged with inciting a riot at an area church during anonymous cult gathering. Witnesses report man simply went the f*** off, throwing chairs, yelling obscene profanities while smiling deliriously and repeating his first name and last initial as if in a trance. Witnesses added that this was an isolated incident and the neighborhood surrounding the church is used to irregular events. Details at 10.”

[Jfanagle]

"Jon it was you!!!! LOL Brother I do love you and your post, I respect you greatly and all that you say. I certainly was not calling you out or doubting you or your program."
-Taz

Taz my friend, I never felt you were doing anything but asking a question. As for "calling me out or doubting me," heck man, I have enough ex-wives that I am never phased by a question or doubt now and then!!

You raised some very interesting and important issues with this thread and I am always helped by the questions raised by others. Thanks for all your contributions to this site and for the imput that your comments ADD to my sobriety.

Keep coming back no matter what.

Jon

[Tazman53]

Jon I learn more here sometimes then in meetings from you and others, one of the reasons is that we have hours and days to pull together our thoughts, reponses and questions rather then an hour or so.