The 4th and the 5th and the truth

[lizw]

Recently a friend of mine (in the program) told me when she did her 4th and 5a with a sponsor, she wasn't completely honest and did hold back certain 'truths about herself'. She is however 5 years sober now which is how we got talking about it since her solution to life problems is now to complusively over eat and she has just gone to a few OA meetings etc... after putting on a HUGE amount of weight and being unable to loose it or stop eating.

I wondered how common this was? Has anyone else done this?

Personally the only problem I had with the 4th step when I first wrote one was that I swore black and blue I had no resentments to anyone, untill I learned resentment and hate are basically the same thing. Ha,ha.

Comments?

It shocked the hell out of me when she told me. It had never even crossed my mind (at the time) to not tell my sponsor everything! I think the other thread about the 4th and 5th got me thinking about it too....

I suppose another question is, is it better she overeats now instead of drinking? Drinking probably kills one faster I suppose.....

[tommyk]

I've heard of it being done before, like if someone had committed a crime.

But it is recommended that they tell a priest, a psychiatrist, or a lawyer, if they feel it may be risky to tell their sponsor.

Hell, we all have our deep dark secrets. Some are just deeper and darker than others.

[nandm]

IMHO where people run into trouble is thinking that they only need to work the Steps occassionally and everything will be alright. The BB says that the Steps and Principles are to be applied to every aspect of our lives, not just to our alcohol problem. Her lack of honesty on her initial 4th 5th Step would have come to light and been dealt with a lot sooner with less problems if she had followed the book and been applying the Steps daily.

It took me nearly 5 years into sobriety before I learned that the Steps were to be applied to all aspects of our lives. My life has become much simpler since I have followed that direction. No matter what problem I run into I work all 12 Steps around it. I do a 4th/5th Step on it and it never fails, I always find a solution to the problem. It also keeps me in the program so I don't forget what got me sober and keeps me sober.

[deezaldog]

I have heard a lot of people say they did not reveal all on their 1st 4 step. That is why you ususally do more than one fourth step. My sponsor 5 yrs sober just did another 4th with her sponsor. Another woman in our mtg has 22yrs sober and did another amends. So, I thought it was not unusual to do more than one 4th. I have been with my sponsor since march and she is my second. We went over my fourth step so she could get to know where I was at. What nandm said was great. We try to apply these principles in all of our affairs.

[Signal30]

I didn't have a problem listing anything. My problem was that I didn't beleive that God could take the pain away that the fears and resentments caused.

It took me awhile, but it does work.


Tom

[Sugah]

I've heard folks say that once they begin doing a 10th step, it's no longer necessary to do another 4th or 5th step. I disagree that those two steps are the same. I see the 10th as dealing with things as they come in the present time. I don't know about any of you folks, but I had a lot of foggy places in my memory, and though I felt I did a very honest 4th step, I frequently 4th and 5th step (and 6th & 7th) things from my past as they arise. I've had some "new" fears that I've 10th stepped that I realized after were rooted in my past. I felt that I hadn't fully dealt with them unless I 4th-7th stepped them as well. I don't make a list -- and when it gets long enough go to my sponsor. I do them as they come, and it's not necessarily with her. I just find someone I trust. I've pulled people aside outside meetings and asked if they minded hearing whatever it was that was weighing on my soul.

As far as purposely holding something back the first time around, I don't think I did that. I was pretty desperate to do things right. As for using the steps in every aspect of my life - well, how can we not? If not, there's no change, and in that case, what's the point? I may as well be drunk - or more likely, dead.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Tazman53]

Liz I had to kind of laugh at myself, I did as thorough and honest a 4th as I could except for one thing.............. well when my sponsor and I sat down to do my 5th step the first thing he asked me was what was my deepest darkest secret? I looked at him and said "Well I didn't write it down!" I told him and he kind of smiled and said "Feel better?" I did!!!! I felt awesome, a weight I had carried for 40 years was gone along with the guilt and shame, once I told him I realized just how stupid and really trivial it was! Everything else I could recall was written down so because he asked me that it was a thorough inventory. As memories have come back I have done mini 4th & 5th steps just to keep my side of the street as clean as I can.

I wondered how common this was? Has anyone else done this?

I am not sure if it is common or not, I know one guy shared that he relapsed after 5 or 6 years due to him holding back things in his 4th/5th step. He cleared that up after he came back in.

I suppose another question is, is it better she overeats now instead of drinking? Drinking probably kills one faster I suppose.....

Well I never heard of any one going to jail for over eating so I would say over eating is the lesser of 2 evils! LOL Of course she may be overeating due to not doing a thorough 4th/5th? You know you may suggest to her that she discuss what she held back with her sponsor?

[ananda]

although our primary purpose in AA is about alchohol, the truth is food can kill us. Some of the health issues can be very serious and very quick to hit. long term of course is huge what damage can be cause.

I'm not the food police, but I always hope people will deal with their food problems before they damage their body. Yes...food can be a self destructive way to not have to deal with my problems...but then again some people eat a lot and seem to do ok with their problems...so I guess it's individual.

[RufusACanal]

Nothing is perfection in this new life except the love of God.

[bballdad]

I did tell it all during my first 5th step.I have heard members say they held onto one or two things,and later told it all.Apparently they got enough relief to stay sober a while,and later found it necessary to finish cleaning house.

[lizw]

I think I was probably surprised because I had always assumed everyone told everything first off as I told everything I could remember and I am sure I had other stuff I remembered later, and even now I have some stuff I am starting to remember from my childhood, which includes stealing money etc...
It's a never ending process, to get closer to my HP.

[RufusACanal]

I am Alcoholic and a lair for decades. I would think most would lie rather than tell the truth. I held back from my first Fourth and the second and the third. I didn't not grow as a man until I could safely tell the truth; now it is not an issue, but for years the truth was my greatest fear.

[Music]

Originally Posted by lizw

I suppose another question is, is it better she overeats now instead of drinking? Drinking probably kills one faster I suppose.....

The unasked question to me is could all of this been avoided if she'd been honest with her sponsor in the first place? If she is still holding on to garbage from the past, she's still carrying around stuff that could eventually get her drunk. Then she has a dual problem. Drinking and eatting.

[Mercedes1]

I don't think most people know truths from bs in the begginning and I (for one) don't believe the first time you do a fourth you will be totally honest as it takes time to "become" that.

[Music]

Originally Posted by Mercedes1

I don't think most people know truths from bs in the begginning and I (for one) don't believe the first time you do a fourth you will be totally honest as it takes time to "become" that.

I agree Mercedes. We can only be as honest as we can be today, right this minute. However, the origional post did mention this person had been sober for 5 years. I say once again that she's been carrying this stuff around and has had, I assume, plenty of chances to come clean but hasn't done so. A newcomer I can understand being embarrassed and maybe holding back something but I question again how someone can expect to be "sober" and stay sober while carrying around wreckage from the past. There's a limit and sooner or later, the chicken is going to come home to roost, possibly carrying a sixpack.

[RufusACanal]

... a plastic half gallon of non-potato Vodka equipped with a easy twistoff top!