Step Question For Experienced AA'ers!

[sobergirl77]

Originally Posted by anvilhead

kinda makes ya wonder why you bothered asking.....but best of luck anyway

Because I wanted your opinions. I have thanked you guys in every post I make for them, too... so I don't know what you mean by this? It's kind of rude.

Just because I am going to go ahead with the 4th step regardless of the advice given doesn't mean I didn't listen and absorb your comments.

[bob_sapp]

You know, people come here and go around the rooms all the time asking questions that they already know the answer to, just looking for someone to tell them what they want to hear. If you've been around since June 2007 I'm guessing you have absorbed enough to know the answers to your queries. If you honestly look in your heart and ask god's will, it will be abundantly clear what path you should take.

[AW2486]

I read this thread before going to work and have been thinking about it most of the day.

I agree its not good to read the big book and try working the steps while drinking a case of beer.

But I also agree after doing the steps and taking the action outlined in the book .. possibly the obsession to drink will be lifted after completing those steps.

I've been making arguments back and forth in my head about your situation all day long.

I'm glad others here have posted about Bill doing the oxford program with Ebby right away as he was drying out.

I thought a lot about my dad .. From 1961 to 1971 he was in treatment 7 times. Back then they wouldn't let you out until you completed a 5th step. He attended AA all those years, had sponsors .. good sponsors.. I know a few of them. Then one day the obsession left him, it was after his 7th treatment and he stayed sober the rest of his life.. Why didn't it work during those other 6 treatments?

We only know it when we arrive there. I am grateful I didn't have to go through the hell my father did. But why didn't I ?

I say go for it SG.. hopefully this will be your time. I pray it is

[sugErspun]

Originally Posted by lizw

I believe that when they take their hands off themselves and their own lives, God/HP takes care of them.

I don't think it could be put any better.

Thanks.

[Sugah]

I took the 1st step before I set foot in the rooms the last time. I knew in my heart that I was powerless and there was no fooling myself into thinking that I had any ability or strength to manage my own life anymore. I didn't need to read the book to know that, though I did, alone and then with my sponsor. If one puts whole heart into it, steps 2 & 3 could be taken in an hour. My sponsor had me on the fourth step within a month of working with her, as we read and discussed so much of the first 164 each week. When we got to the fifth chapter, I started to write. My heart was in it. My reservations had been surrendered to God as I understood God - or didn't understand, as it more resembled. There was a spark of faith in me, enough so that I believed that if God worked in the lives of others, God would work in mine.

I do things with sponsees the same way my sponsor did with me - though sometimes more quickly, sometimes more slowly as our time together can be scheduled. If one can come to a place of true surrender, I don't see why the first three steps can't be taken in an afternoon. Yes, I believe it's important to read the book first, but I don't think it's impossible if one hasn't read and understood it. At least a hundred got sober without a book. What I do think is important is that the steps are taken with whole heart. If you can do that, sobergirl, then you go. Go, go, go, and keep going. Trudge the road to happy destiny. And whatever you do, no matter what starts spinning in your head, under no circumstance pick up a drink. There is no obsession so strong that a prayer in earnest to God as you understand God cannot overcome it. Pray with your whole heart before you pick up and you won't pick up!! Be grateful every moment, as a grateful heart cannot drink!!

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[lizw]

[quote=Sugah;1836482]Pray with your whole heart before you pick up and you won't pick up!![/i]

The last day I drank was after I had been in AA for a nearly year, worked the steps with my sponsor (made some amends etc..) and that morning I had got down on my knees and begged God to relieve me of the obsession to drink but I still drunk.

The night before I tried drinking, but did not have enough money to buy a bottle, and I didn't want to start my (what I thought was a) new drinking career as a shoplifter too, so I put it off till the next day.

There is the obsession to drinking, and then there is complusion, and that day I drank with everything I learnt in AA, the complusion was so strong, it had been building for awhile, and I'd choosen not to tell anyone. And then what happened is (I believe) God intervened in the form of another person, who wasn't even an AA member nor knew I was drinking, I suspect.

An AA friend of mine says she believes 'God works through people' and that AA members to her are like 'God with skin on'. Since my last drink, if I have ever felt like drinking I tell someone, generally my sponsor. And if it doesn't go away. I tell someone else. And then I tell another person, and another person, and another person. And what usually happens is in all this telling about myself, I'm spending heaps of time with other AA members and I come across someone else who has problems far worse than mine and I forget, that I ever felt like drinking...

AA is a program of self forgetting and I have to say it but the BB says,...if you are shaky (Fill in the blank) ....it works when all else fails.

[sobergirl77]

Well I am back after doing my 4th step (which took several hours, whew!) with a sponsor. I am hesitant to say "my" sponsor, although she has been acting as one. I haven't yet let go of my current sponsor, although now she no longer answers the phone at all for me.

Anyway... first off, I wanted to say that I am grateful for all the people who took the time to type out a response to me. I have to honestly say that even as I typed my original 2 questions to you, I knew the answers to both deep down and what I would do about them. I merely wanted your feedback.

I knew I was going to be working my 4th step today regardless of what anyone was going to tell me. And darn good thing I did because I finally, FINALLY realized what on earth was causing me to relapse every week or so. Because I honestly didn't really know, other than the disease/allergy itself and mental obsession.

I have found out that I wasn't truly working the 3rd step. Yep, that good ole' third step. This sponsor helped me realize today that every time I have relapsed, those were the days when I didn't "make a connection" with God that morning. I may have prayed, but I didn't get on my knees, spend some time down there and I didn't read the big book and/or the bible those days. My spiritual program on these days did not exist. Therefore, I got drunk.

I am so extremely grateful to have learned that in order to stay sober, I have to work my spiritual program Every. Single. Day. Period.

And I am willing to do it now every single solitary day! I kept relapsing and having people tell me I wasn't "done" or "ready". But trust you me, I was ready the day I walked in AA. I was "done" about 3 relapses ago when I had a near case of alcohol poisoning. But something wasn't sticking... something.

I am going to make a post about relapsing in the Alcoholism forum, because I feel like it is important. I will type more there about this.

Anyway, while doing my 4th step, I had a lot of other things revealed about me. I have some character defects. I haven't "digested" them all yet, because 2 of them really surprised the heck out of me.

By the way, I have never done any of my steps drunk or under the influence (to the person who brought that up)... I always did them only and only when I was sober.

I am so grateful to have done this step and after I spend a couple of days praying and "digesting" these truths about myself that I have learned, I will be completing my 5th step with the same woman.

[philosoffy]

Sg - You Just Keep Doing What You Are Doing - Its Working. I Think You've Hit Bottom Well And Truely. Be Sure To Do Your 5th Step With Someone You Can Trust. Stick With The Winners - And They Are Not The Ones Who Tell You To Drink Again. By Its Nature This This Fellowship Is Full Of Sick People.
The Big Book Refers To The Experiment Of Drinking Again, For Those Who Doubt They Are Alcoholic. And I Believe You Know Where You Stand. Grab Sobriety With All You Have.
God Bless You

[philosoffy]

Hi SG, I think a relaps thread is a brilliant idea and I will be contributing my futile experiences. You're doin great - Well done.

[sobergirl77]

P.S. My sponsor "fired" me when she found out I did my 4th step with someone else.

Oh well!

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by sobergirl77

P.S. My sponsor "fired" me when she found out I did my 4th step with someone else.

Oh well!

Oh dear! You just keep doing what you doing, you are doing great, I can SO relate that when I connect with my HP in the morning, that's when I got a fighting chance to stay sober that day!

Well done honey!

Cathy31
x

[Tazman53]

sobergirl, AA is a program of suggestions, how I worked/work my program does not mean that is the way that will work for every single person, the primary thing is to (IMHO) work the steps according to the BB to the best of your ability. There are no rules in AA, there is nothing in the BB that says one should not move on to the next step if they slip/relapse, as a matter of fact in the BB it does not mention the drink problem really starting to dissappear until the promises following step 5:

Once we have taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted. We can look the world in the eye. We can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us. We begin to feel the nearness of our Creator. We may have had certain spiritual beliefs, but now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strongly. We feel we are on the Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.

I am a firm beleiver that the quicker someone can honestly work the steps with a sponsor the better, in the early days of AA a lot of people did not even attend their first meeting until they had completed the steps!

I bend over backwards to take a sponsee through the steps as quickly as they are ready to go through them. I was in the rooms for 3 months, had a sponsor, but he was very busy with his job & traveled a lot so we had not even finished working step one!

He was my temporary sponsor and was a good man, but I was really getting crazy!!!! A drink was screaming at me and the idea was sounding better and better all the time, I found another sponsor and let my temporary sponsor know I had found one, he was not upset at all, he wished me well and we are still friends today.

My sponsor told me he would take me through the steps as quickly as I could work them. By todays standards I was through with them quickly and it made a huge difference, the obsession to drink was lifted for me some where during steps 4 & 5!!!

Sobergirl I hope you have asked the woman you did your 4th with to be your sponsor because she sure sounds like the right sponsor for you. I would not worry about your old sponsor firing you, caca happens!

[nandm]

Originally Posted by sobergirl77

P.S. My sponsor "fired" me when she found out I did my 4th step with someone else.

Oh well!

Her loss and your gain. Now you can freely move forward to find a sponsor who offers something that you want in sobriety rather than gossip and such.

Take care and keep up the good work.

[lizw]

Originally Posted by sobergirl77

I am so extremely grateful to have learned that in order to stay sober, I have to work my spiritual program Every. Single. Day. Period.

I do this. Most people I know who have stayed and continue to stay sober do as well. Soberity isn't a one off event eh?

Some days I do it better than others - and they are the good ones. When I am not doing so well it feels like I am stuck in international morons day or something.

I look forward to reading more of your posts.

[Mercedes1]

As I stated, you can't work on something you know nothing about. Doing your 4th ASAP is to me the way to go, but more importantly after that doing your 5th immediately. I recommend taht.

Also, just my 2cents, you will CONTINUE to digest your 4th the rest of your life. You will realize deeper revelations as time goes on. You may even increase your list of issues as time goes on. If you are seeking God through this..He only gives you what you can handle. You need to see it first then whoever talked about ACTION that is so necessary..you take action to those character defects then guess what..He reveals more to you.

I was just at a step w/shop last night and one of the most amazing role models I have come across told me he encourages all his sponsees to do 4th as soon as possible as you need to understand what makes you tick..what leads you to that drink.

I strongly believe drinking is the symptom. Taking step 1 is identifying bad things happen when you drink but that doesnt PREVENT us from doing it again if we don't understand the subtle issues that drive us there...

Being aware when we start to get restless to an unknown fear that now is apparent....social/relational triggers that we identify then learn how to combat..THAT is what keeps us from going back..and eventually...yes, eventually the obession will turn to empowerment to do "the next right thing" and that is love yourself.

Knowing how bad alchohol is for me doesnt stop me from hating myself and taking that drink anyway if I cant control my feelings.

He also said it wasnt until step 9 he had his spiritual awakening..so keep on going..,like one poster says...you got it as far as Im concerned..

Surrender is a process and sometimes that takes slips. I know that full hand. I see you wanting to know more why you keep slipping...you are learning..and want to congratulate and encourage you. I believe you will be stronger for your journey of thumps as long as you keep moving forward..and moving ahead is that way (in my opinion)...

[navysteve]

Secondly, if I don't trust my current sponsor with my 4th or 5th step (and I have other sponsors picked out for those steps, not my own), should I just let go of my current sponsor? She has gossiped about me behind my back to other women and hasn't been consistent in much that she has said. So obviously I don't trust her with my innermost emotional information and/or life history.

Eww!!!! I would change sponsors. I can't tell you what will remove the obsession. In my opinion, sticking on step 1 would be a mistake. The Big Book suggests that if you have doubts you might want to try controlled drinking. Admitting you are an alcoholic is no major defense against the first drink. You are right to want to work the steps. Take Dr Bobs example, day 2, he went out and began making amends. That is a powerful example, it tells me that the steps are the answert to my dilema. If you do not trust your sponsor, the Big Book suggests using a minister, even if you are not religious, it is not about religious belief, most ministers are trained counselors and are qualified to give feedback. An alocoholic only has their experience, which is important, but many in the rooms have imaginary degrees.

While I can understand when other members say (about others who relapse) 'they haven't completely done the first step' I wonder how anyone can be expected to come to AA and then just accept they are powerless over alcohol? If one gets told they have cancer, the doc just doesn't say, you must accept this now. Acceptance is a process. I am not saying this as a justifaction for drinking either. : )

AMEN!!!!!!!!! If I was told that I had to stay on step 1 I doubt I would be here today. By practicing all 12 steps as a way of life I am brought to a greater understanding of the meaning of the word powerless. I think it is one of the BIG LIES lies told in AA.

[zoomer]

I had a sponcer that lead me through the steps within a couple of months. It felt good to be able to do something other than pray. My sponcer had me write out the steps and because he could not talk much (he had cancer or the throat) we would e-mail back and forth with the steps except for my 4th and 5th step. Because i was a woman he asked me if I felt comfortable in telling a man about my 4th and 5th. I said as long as he did not mind blushing from time to time I felt pretty comfortable LOL. Working the steps in early sobriety helped me gain confidence in which I had very little of. In reading this thread though and seeing the struggle that SG77 I would say that the dear girl is not doing anything wrong. Some people can try to work the steps and pray with all their might,but still drink. When people do that I feel a medical intervention is needed. That is why God made these rehabs and detoxes for those who stuggle and cannot put down that drink. I know SG77 said she could not find a rehab,but she should still be looking for her own sake. Alcoholism is a medical condition that in most cases need medical attention. I say good for SG77 that she is trying,but just remember that there is help out there to help you over come your alcoholism through the medical field. AA and the steps are tools to help keep you sober, Usally after a medical intervention. I had been trhough rehabs and treatments in my younger days,so after I relaps for a number of years I knew what to do. It was a struggle to go into AA cold turkey trust me and If I was smart enough I would have gone to another rehab, it would have made things so much easier on me. But if you must go without medical intervention, trust your gut on sponcers and people in general. I had a hard time trusting anyone in AA for fear of rejection or being treated like a mindless twit,but I had to trust someone and that some one happened to be a man with cancer. I had just lost my mom to cancer so maybe he reminded me of my mom's struggle. And becareful of asking questions to a bunch of people because it makes you a target or opens you up for suggestions you don't want or need to hear. Unless of course you like the attention. I personally just have a few people in my life that I tell my innermost thoughts to. I have a new sponcer now, a woman with 22 years. We are not as close as me and my old sponcer was,but she is someone who I can trust. Good luck and remember you are doing nothing wrong, you just may need a bit more help from professionals.

[ananda]

"I would say that the dear girl is not doing anything wrong. Some people can try to work the steps and pray with all their might,but still drink. When people do that I feel a medical intervention is needed."

I second that! Thanks.

[bballdad]

i third it ladies