Should AA change?

[nandm]

Should A.A. Change?

I ran across the below quote from Bill W. I found it interesting because I have come across people from both extremes. People who believe that AA should remain unchanged or the message will get diluted causing the program not work. I have also come across people who definitely dilute the message; some of the sayings they tend to use:

• Take what you want and leave the rest. This to many people means work the Steps that you want to work. Only listen to people who don't **** you off. Don't worry about reading the BB and finding out what it really says all you need to know is what you hear in meetings.
• Keep coming back. To many this means go ahead and go out drinking, it's okay to do because we will welcome you back after each relapse with open arms.
• there are many more out there that I can not think of right at the moment.

I am curious to know how you feel about AA and change to keep up with the times. I have also added a poll to make it easier to see how people compare in their beliefs. I appreciate hearing any thoughts you have on this.

Perhaps our very first realization should be that we can't stand
still. Now that our basic principles seem established, now that our
functioning is fairly effective and widespread, it would be temptingly
easy to settle down as merely one more useful agency on the world
scene. We could conclude that "AA is fine, just the way it is."
... We have to grow or deteriorate. For us, the 'status quo' can only
be for today, never for tomorrow. Change we must; we cannot stand
still.
So then, if our basics [Steps and Traditions] are so firmly fixed
as all this, what is there left to change or to improve? The answer
will immediately occur to us. While we need not alter our truths, we
can surely improve their application to ourselves, to AA as a whole,
and to our relation with the world around us. We can consistently step
up "the practice of these principles in all our affairs."
... Let us continue to take our inventory as a Fellowship,
searching out our flaws and confessing them freely. Let us devote
ourselves to the repair of all faulty relations that may exist, whether
within or without.
-- Bill W., "The Shape of Things to Come", reprinted in
"The Language of the Heart"

[Signal30]

The basics of the AA program work. The first successful milestone to ones recovery is that the person changes. There is nothing wrong with AA growing as a program and it can continue to certainly be effective and successful as long as the principals remain intact.

Many people scoff at those who are brutally honest in the program, accusing them of being insensitive. But just giving hugs and saying that it's going to be ok is not going to keep anyone sober. Sometimes you have to call someone out on their own BS in order for them to get it. This whole "kinder and gentler" AA is usually a quick way to divert the primary purpose.

And when it comes to changing AA you have to ask yourself.....

Am I wanting these changes in AA to make the program better or to make it the way I think it should be ran? Alcoholics are egos running riot.

Keep it simple, keep it complete. We live in a trendy, impatient, always rushing world. What might seem like a good idea to change something now, may not be in the future.

The change has to come from you and your attitude. We all know what happens when we just want everything else in the world around to change. It usually starts in the first column titled "I'm Resentful At..."


Tom

[Tazman53]

You know I answered "No Way", but when I say that I am speaking of the following:

1. The Doctors Opinion and the first 164 pages of the BB.

2. The 12 & 12.

The above is the "Program", it is "The Solution".

In my opinion there is no sane reason to change any of the above, unless............. alcoholism changes!!!

Anyone who has studied the history of AA knows that AA as a whole has evolved over the years and will continue to do so.

We as alcoholics had to change in order to survive, but the one thing we can not change is our skeleton.

AA will change in order to survive, but in my opinion, "The Doctors Opinion", the first 164 pages of the BB & the 12 & 12 are the skeleton of AA and if those are changed we no longer have "the "Program of AA", or "The Solutionof AA".

I do not take every sponsee through the steps exactly the same, but the frame work of how I take them through the steps is straight out of the BB & the 12 X 12, using the same frame work my sponsor took me through the steps as his sponsor took him through the steps, we all have a "COMMON SOLUTION" which is contained in "The Doctors Opinion", the first 164 pages of the BB & the 12 & 12.

Alcoholism has not changed, nor should the "COMMON SOLUTION"

Why my opinion? Well the "COMMON SOLUTION" is what saved my life and many others.

The "COMMON SOLUTION" that saved my life has saved more alcoholics lifes then all of the other solutions in history combined have, do we really want to mess with it?

[ChristaLynn]

I think it is so interesting when people talk about "AA" as one big entity, how can you even describe it? Its like trying to describe every God that exists in every religion in just one paragraph.

The program of Alcoholics Anonymous is based on the Big Book and it seems pretty great just the way it is. Its just the story of how some people got and stayed sober and is full of suggestion and examples of how others can follow their path. Pretty simple really. But the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous is a complex, ever-changing social community that consists of millions of people all over the world! Its all different and beautiful and you find what works for you when you need it. I don't think there is a "wrong" way to follow the program, the Big Book clearly states that it is full of suggestions and the authors knew they didn't know it all when they wrote it.

The only problems arise when people start thinking they know all the answers so everyone else should do it their way. The more we practice love and tolerance (as the BB also suggests) the stronger our fellowship will be.

peace, love, joy,
Christa

[tommyk]

Take what you want and leave the rest: use whatever AA principles keep you sober.

Keep coming back: don't ever give up.

Maybe we just each have different interpretations of these sayings.

[cookconfay]

Whatever happened to....."If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

[ananda]

change cannot be stopped, we can fight it or accept it.

Alchoholics anonomis for me is one alchoholic helping another alchoholic to get and stay sober. The big book, the 12 steps, the meetings, all that stuff really helps me to stay sober. But what helps me the most is working with other alchoholics and hearing their expereince strenght and hope. Not quotes or buz words...but from the heart in their own words.

In that respect I guess AA never has and never will change? we are still a group of alchoholics who share their ESH to stay sober and help other alchoholics to achieve sobriety....that core is and has always been there.

[dgillz]

I think the steps and the traditions are rock solid and should not change. Having said that, AA has changed considerably over the years. A great book to read to explain this and also get some AA history is Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers. I highly reccommend it.

[tkdan]

I do not think the program itself should change. I do think people should be willing to adapt to the times. From the little time I've been in the program and from talking to those that have been involved for a long time I've come to a conclusion. AA is getting younger. With all of the information at our fingertips people are more likely to be educated about alcoholism before they sink too low. I thought I had a faily low bottom until I heard so of the oldtimes share then I realized how fortunate I was to find the program when I did. My sponsor likes to quote that we have to become mangled to become teachable. I believe this was true when there was no information available about this disease. Only after alcoholism took everything did people realize they had a problem. I had a very good understanding of alcoholism before I ever walked through the doors of AA (although an understanding alone will not keep me sober). The literature should never change, the way we reach out should be flexable and individualized. Personal recovery depends on AA unity, attraction rather than promotion.

[Tazman53]

You know this is a thread that has stuck with me, the most amazing thing about the program of AA is the flexabilty in it.

Higher Power - You pick.

Who to do your 5th step with. - You pick.

Sponsor - You pick.

Whether or not you are an alcoholic. - You decide.

How many & which meetings. - You pick.

Prayer - Some suggested ones, but you decide what you wish to say.

Rules - Nope, simple suggestions.

[justanothrdrunk]

I've heard some women say that all the masculine pronouns in the big book is somewhat of a turn off. And I think those concerns are valid.

I still can't make the jump by saying I think the big book needs to changed in that regard, or any other.

From a pure writing perscpective, it's horribly written. The language is clunky, the syntax is painful, poor grammar, run-on sentences... But being the writing nit that I am, I still can't bring myself to think that a word should change in the first 164.

And there's plenty of flexibility as far as meetings go. Follow the 12 traditions and let the group concious be your guide. Different meetings are wonderfully diverse. Don't like a particular meeting? Find another. They are all very different animals.

[RufusACanal]

Remind me never to post again after you JAD; I always thought syntax was that hit of lysergic acid diethylamide I flipped out on in 1971.

I have juicier things to be offended about than 1930's pronouns...

The sugar maple in my folks front yard grows a foot or two each year, but it never changes and still looks beautiful and provides shade and memories for each of us.

Great topic, nandm! Is AA broke? I do not think so. I believe that we as a people are simply softer and less reliable; the softer easier way plus I didn't do it syndrome seems the path for many today.

[nandm]

WOW! Thank you for all the interesting replies.

It does not surprise me that the thought of changing the first 164 pages, the Steps, or the Traditions the majority are against. I am in total agreement with that. I believe the program itself works. I like the way Rufus put it

Is AA broke? I do not think so. I believe that we as a people are simply softer and less reliable; the softer easier way plus I didn't do it syndrome seems the path for many today.

He said it best IMHO.

Take care everyone and thanks again for all the responses.

[Tazman53]

I can tell you what has changed a lot about AA in the last 20 years in comparison to the earlier years.

In the early days most of the drunks who came into AA were really down and out, some of them had hit bottom and fallen right through it. Today the majority of alcoholics coming into AA are in comparison to the early years of AA high bottom drunks.

Yes the solution is still the same today as it was then, but just my take on it, but it is harder for some high bottoms alcoholics to get the first time.

[Music]

I've been in AA for a long time and the Big Book's first 164 pages have not been altered. The words contained in those pages and my faith and belief that if I just try my best on a daily basis have kept me sober. But that's not to say I haven't changed. I have! I'm older and my life, and station in society have changed. I as a person have to change and adapt to the life changes or else. Sometimes it hasn't been easy but again, my faith and belief in the first 164 have given me the courage to make changes I wouldn't have otherwise made. I've seen a lot of people come and go, and the ones who refuse to change as individuals generally don't stick around. For reasons of their own, they insist on continuing to do things based on self will which more often than not, creates situations which come back to haunt them.

I definately do take what I want and leave the rest. I take what is based in the first 164 and that I know works and I leave the rest where I heard it.