More on swearing. Principal or personality? Will you call it?

[lizw]

I thought the 'to swear or not to swear' thread was so interesting, I thought I'd ask everyone if they swearing in meetings is a personality issue or is 'not swearing' a principal?

I may have worded this using bad england too, so if someone wants to phrase it better go for your life.

But our (AA) 12th tradition does tell us to place principals before personalities...

Personally I think it is a personality issue and liken it to to maybe christians making ref to Jesus in their sharing a lot, however that being said the whole christian thing may be covered by the tradition that says AA is not affliated with any other group, cause etc...

Maybe I could say I think swearing in mtgs is a prefference thing, making it a personality issue rather than a principal.

I like reading others thoughts on this kind of stuff, we are all each others teachers and all that - there is never a right or wrong answer. So what do you think?

[ananda]

communication is communication....i have to not let words stand in the way of the expereience being expressed....I do try not to swear to much as i don't want my words to get in the way of what i am sharing.

AA is certainly not a don't wear club....it would be like insisting everyone speak english or spanish or whatever...

some cultural groups cuzz more than others.

Not a big deal to me. It's harder for me to deal with the sex bias comments in the big book than cursing in meetings

[barb dwyer]

I've been to some fairly rough meetings - and even there, over use is usually frowned on , and even called by whoever is running the meeting.

I mean, it's a judgement call, to me.

If the person is sweating, sick and just detox shaking all over the place,
who cares if something slips?

But it is a different story when the person is just being offensive, ya know?

I mean, recovery is about gettting better.

I think it's a call for the chair of the meeting.

[Sugah]

We read a statement at the beginning of the meeting that our group conscience approved which states, "As we do not feel it is conducive to recovery, our group conscience asks that you do not swear while you are here." The actual vote on that statement was influenced by the fact that we rent the room from the church - so it might be our meeting, but it's not our house. We are guests, and except in the case of a wet one coming through the door who doesn't yet know any better, we'd better act like guests.

We have also voted that the chair may alter the opening statement in any way she or he sees fit, so on occasion, such as tonight when my husband was chairing, that statement might be rephrased to say, "Please don't swear too much." I can't tell you the last time I heard an F-bomb dropped in a meeting in my district. The milder oaths are often followed by an "excuse me" from the speaker.

I didn't add a lot to the other thread - though I will say this: I've heard a lot more foul language in NA than in AA, which may or may not have contributed to NA moving out of the churches and into the community centers - and eventually folding all together in our area.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[tiburon88]

The only &%^$ requirement is a desire to stop @#$%* drinking.

tib

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

The only &%^$ requirement is a desire to stop @#$%* drinking.

tib

Tib, if you find a group you like and actually become a contributing member, you will discover what a group conscious is,you will understand the importance of principles over personalities and you may discover how limited and narrow your belief system is.

I said it a while back and I will say it again, if you do not change, you will die the lonely, miserable death of an alcoholic. But that's your choice, I don't care what you do as long as you get well.

[tiburon88]

Rob, it's funny that you know what my belief system is.

tib

[NoelleR]

Originally Posted by tiburon88

The only &%^$ requirement is a desire to stop @#$%* drinking.

tib

Actually, tib, the only requirement for MEMBERSHIP is a desire to stop drinking. This tradition is NOT a principle for what goes on in certain meetings.....

Most meetings have certain/given principles.....: a group conscience may make one particular meeting a BB study; others may be Step-Studies, or open discussion meetings (one would not presume to stand up at the podium as the speaker and open his/her BB and lead a BB study.....that would be just plain silly); some meetings may be women's only meetings, or (predominantly) gay meetings;......etc., etc., etc. ......there are lots of principles governing (probly a poor choice of words, but it's late, and I'm tired...lol) AA meetings, and the use of 'acceptable' language is often brought up.....a very hot topic......lol

One thing I've had to realize is that words like: acceptable/unacceptable, offensive, swearing.....etc. are just like the words: sober, sobriety, recovery...etc. These are all SUBJECTIVE terms; what I may see as offensive, someone else may not.....and I don't get to define words for others.

I attend some Celebrate Recovery meetings here in Houston, at my church, and one of the reasons some of the folks prefer CR or some of the other Christ-based recovery programs is simply due to the language used at some meetings.....for me, it was all about recovery and not picking up; all the other stuff (including the language used) I've learned to let go of.....I won't let it hamper my recovery..... (o:


NoelleR

[Cathy31]

Thank God for the traditions, they really work keep AA going imho.

Cathy31
x

[bballdad]

in my mind,I cannot swear and truthfully say I have a conscience contact with God as I understand God.When I first came to AA,my language was as bad as anyones.Every sentence was full of cuss words.I was told to leave it outside the meeting.Today,if I have to talk at a meeting,I`ve been told to never swear during my talk.So,I don`t....or in any meeting.


I also have been told AA is all inclusive,so,you can`t take Jesus out of AA.If it bugs you,you may want to seek the answers within yourself as to why it bugs you Liz.

[nandm]

My experience with swearing is that people tend to do it when they don't have the vocabulary to express themselves in a more productive way. I know in my early 20's that was the case for me, plus the fact that I was around Marines most of the time because I was married to one.

I don't find swearing to be much of a problem in the meetings I go to. We do have the occassional newcomer who will come in and share via swearing. But they tend to either find other meetings or find other words to express their feelings and stick around.

I have learned to live and let live on the swear words. It is no skin off my back if someone swears although I would prefer not to have to listen to it. I take this attitude with organized religion in meetings as well as long as the person does not try to force their concept of a Higher Power off on me or insinuate that their God of the Bible is the only Higher Power in AA. I do tend to get offended on that one as I would have run away from AA had I heard someone saying that when I came in the doors. As far as I was concerned I had tried the God of the Bible and it did now work for me and I would rather have died at the time than give him the time of day. Today I am a little more accepting and for the most part see it as the Big Book does not designate what or who a persons HP has to be and am even a little more open to the God of the Bible although I still have my issues with religion itself.

[lizw]

I don't claim to be the best vocab user in the world, so thanks again for sending this too me and for anyone else who is unclear....

Just a wee FYI regarding the difference between the words 'principle' and 'principal' ---- how to know which one to use......it's easy.....:

'Principle' is ONLY used as a NOUN....
'Principal' is used as both a NOUN or an ADJECTIVE

Examples:

1) Princi(pal) -- The princi(pal) is my pal
2) Princip(le) -- it's the ru(le)--ie: the Peter Principle: in a hierarchy employees tend to rise to the level of their incompetence

I also wanted to comment on the 'Jesus' stuff as I am sorry if I offended anyone. This was just the first example that sprung to mind and it wasn't meant to be about religon but rather about some person trying to push something on me, trying to force me to adopt a point of view that I don't want because if I did want it, I'd have it already. Strangley enough, I think the big guy upstairs looks over us all, just like Christians believe. 10 years of catholic education has had some benefits!

A further example (of something being forced on me) happened to me at a treatment centre I use to collect residents from to take to meetings. I was maybe 6 months sober. One day one of their counsellors got hold of me and gave me a 'good talking to' about parent/child dymanics and told me if I was to remain sober I would need to get some seriously counselling or learn about this type of thing. I had to learn to 'repsond from my parent' not from 'my child.' After this, I went home, and got on the phone with my sponsor for serious discussions. My sponsor told me to stay the F*** away from her because she was a loony toon, so I did!

The other thing I will add, as I have thought about it ever since I mentioned the Jesus thing, was I use to attend an NA meeting in a town where they had a treatment centre. The NA community was so small that they added a thing to their format that said, if you are a resident of this treatment centre please don't mention it. They thought addicts coming to the meeting who weren't in the treatment centre may get the impression they had to go there too or that NA was somehow affliated with the place.

You know I could go on and on about all my expereinces in soberity for days. In real life, I get an hour at a meeting and then maybe half an hour over coffee. Lol. And I just had dinner with a recovery friend and we talked non stop for 3 hours.

[findingout]

I spent many meetings my first year sitting at a table with a fellow named Lou. At a table one night, we were joined by another alcoholic who was swearing a blue streak as they say. When it was Lou's turn to share, he spoke about how when he finds himself swearing, it is a sign that the serenity he's after is evading him, that the connection to his higher power is poor, full of static. The other fellow, he of the blue streak, got a little upset and defensive about this but Lou's remarks had a big effect on me. Five years later, I still remember them. The words we use in communicating with each other and in our internal conversations with our higher powers are important. For me, swearing is the language of using, not the language of recovery. A new way of living needs a new vocabulary.

Having said that, when I miss the nail and hit my thumb with a hammer, the first words out of my mouth are not the serenity prayer. Maybe they should be but sometimes, the F-bomb perfectly fits a given moment.

[RufusACanal]

The creative use of profanity was one of my more prized possessions in the old life; communicating with slurs, vulgarity and off color humor made me more comfortable in the barroom, the workplace, in traffic and in my own skin. With the beginning of this new life, I quickly realized that the whole mindset behind the use of profanity separates me not only from others, but from the spirit that makes the freedom I enjoy today so fulfilling. I am not envisioning myself as a retro Polly Anna, but I do desire to be truly heard when I express myself without the tint of the old life distracting from the message I am attempt to convey. I do revert at times; telling myself that the use of the old verses the new will more easily communicate that precise emotion at that precise moment. Who knows, maybe I do get the point across with the old generalizations that can pop out of my mouth faster than the next breath, but what do I loss in the process? Freedom of Speech also mean freedom to not speak or at best not to speak like I once felt the need to glorify in. Do I want to be measured by the conversation I create today or the masterful blend of verbosity that I used to weld as I once again came to, went to jail or to the detox? It does not take a genius to cuss like a trooper; it does take a certain discipline to adhere to those societal rules when creatively forming worthwhile and fulfilling communications with those around us and with ourselves.
Off course, if after reading this you still think I am full of s***, please see your Sponsor for more information.

Ron

[tommyk]

When the end result is all too often jails, institutions, and death... strong language can be understandable.

Please SHARE. Swear if you desire. But PLEASE SHARE. Your life may depend on it.

I envision this scenario from a newcomer: "I'd like to share, I NEED to share, but I know some bad language will slip out because I'm hurting so badly that I want to die, so I've got to keep it all inside of me right now."

I'm very glad to hear those who find swearing offensive are doing so well with their recovery - but... I'll bet there was a time when things were a little different for you? Times when you could have cared less about someone else's language and more about saving your own life? Oh, how soon we forget what brought us into the rooms?

Jails, institutions, and death.