Relapsing

[Mercedes1]

Can I get opinions on the "suggestion" to rehash publicly at AA meetings when one relapses vs. taking accountability to yourself and working it out honestly w/out verbally addressing the whole 1 day again drama?

I dont see the benefit if a person has relapsed, got significant time back (worked the program, built up success) then for whatever reason falls (relapses)..having to come back and publically addressing it in the rooms (again) if he/she chooses to own her action privately. As long as one is honest with HIMSELF/HERSELF, owns what they did and wants to get back on the horse..that is what matters, right? IOW, if someone wishes to count to themselves, confess it to God, deal with it...rather than announce it in the rooms...I see that as ok. To "wear life loosely" ..and move on..if it is more encouraging to do it that way..then by all means.

I realize the benefit to publically address it at meetings IF IT WORKS for you. But just as everyone is different (take what you can and leave the rest) so is one's program.

I believe some times it is a good to just 'have today'.

My bro in law has not drank in over 4 years. I congratulated him recently on this feat and his response was.."I dont' even think of how much time I have..I just am glad I don't drink anymore"... I like his approach.

If one relapses and feels hope again to "start again"..but does not wish to broadcast it so others can deal with it too..all the power to them. The goal of the rooms is to encourage..not martyr ones progress.

[nandm]

Although I have not had to personally deal with relapse I find it useful when others come back into the rooms after a relapse and talk about it. What it does is reminds me that "it is still not working out there". That is a very important reminder for me. My mind could easily only remember the good times of my drinking and the relapse stories remind me that even just one drink could easily and most probably would wind me right back into that miserable black hole I was in prior to AA.

I respect your point of view although I do not completely agree with it. Everybody sees things differently. I prefer to see others relapses as a tool to remind me drinking did not and does not work for me.

[CarolD]

I spent 5 years in AA before I earned a 1 year chip.

I did not have solid recovery
when I was doing my multi-relapsing.

Fortunately Mercedes1....I can't answer your questions.
Good to see you again...

[bob_sapp]

Fortunately I've stayed sober so I've never had to think about this.

[RufusACanal]

I am grateful the doors have been and will be always open to the suffering Alcoholic; drunk or sober.

Do you honesty realize what you are asking? A suggestion would be to take this to your Sponsor and to that Power greater than you in earnest.

[Sheryl85]

Since I have not had to start over again from the “Day One” situation that you describe, I can only relate what I’ve been told by those who have experienced it and that knowledge I gained from the “near miss” I had to go through. However, the first thing I will share is the observation that one doesn’t have to be humiliated to become humble, but humility is the thing that we strive for when we work this program. Humility comes when we realize that our lives are unmanageable by us and we allow a Power Greater than ourselves to take over the management. And I feel that humility is present when we realize that our best thinking got us here and that of ourselves, we are nothing. Remember, that’s my opinion . . . if you like it, you can use it, too.

I’ve always felt a sense of pride for the person who has the courage to walk into a room and admit that they relapsed. I feel that in most cases it was the showing of humility, the outpouring of love for others, by letting their fellow members know what happened to cause the fall so that they might not have to suffer the same fate. Sure, there is embarrassment involved by making a public declaration of our failing, but it can be partially offset by the fact that we can endure it by the thought of helping others. And when you think about it, aren't we the ones who are our own biggest critics? Aren't we the ones who waste time by caring about what others think about us, something that we have absolutely no power over, when instead we should be more concerned about what we think about other people and what we think about ourselves? (After all, it’s in the latter two areas that hold most of the reasons that we usually feel causes us to drink.)

I’m not sure if that is a good answer for you, but it IS one reason I can see to do it. The Twelve and Twelve talks about Step One being the only Step we can practice to perfection. Perhaps it’s what that Step says that holds the key to why most people feel a public acknowledgment is important. As for me? I think that it could be more the case of what is written on the sobriety tokens themselves . . “To Thine Own Self Be True.”

Just a thought . . .

[Jfanagle]

Interesting thread. I am sure that since there are no "rules" in AA, one is free to do whatever they want regarding a relapse. That being said, it has interesting implications in the group dynamic as far as I can see.

I have always been impressed with the honesty of a returning member and have never felt that at least in my eyes the admission has been one of humiliation, in fact I have never failed to admire the strength of character that an individual exhibits when being open about the act. The length of time one has gone without a drink isn't my criteria for "judging" an individual, more so the type of growth that someone demonstrates in their sobriety is much more important to me. I have listened to several newer sober members who exhibit real growth and progress and have listened to "old timers" who I feel have shown very little progress since the day they stopped drinking.

What I do find interesting is the individual who is so "skilled" in the art of BS that when they speak one could assume they have years of sober living until you realize they are just well practiced con men (people) to be gender correct. I do feel that in these instances the time without a drink is a help to the newcomer who is looking for "role models" as they try and follow a path of real sobriety. Honesty should apply to all our affairs, and in my opinion that includes if one has gone back to drinking. In meetings where we get to know each other and rely on the truth from our cohorts I would be disappointed if a member that I know for years of sobriety is in actuality drinking on the sly and still representing themselves as sober. I realize this may not be the specific instance that is being discussed here, but if we are to condone "hidden relapse" as none of the groups business I am afraid that my example might come into play.

For me, one of the motivations among many others has been a real and genuine fear that I do NOT want to have to admit a relapse. Certainly there are many other reasons as well, but at least in my case the fear of DISAPPOINTING my friends in the fellowship has been a real factor.

As I said at the outset, there certainly are NO REQUIREMENTS that force anyone to announce a relapse, but I do think that honesty in all our affairs means ALL.

Just my thoughts, and at my age I don't have too many good thoughts anyway.

Jon

[RufusACanal]

...for once, I am almost at a loss for words. Please let me take your inventory, because obviously you have not.

[Jfanagle]

RufusACanal

Was your brief comment directed to my post? If so perhaps you would care to elaborate. If not I don't understand the post.

[Mercedes1]

to the Rufus comment..neither do I understand it?

Jfanagle..your comment regarding..."For me, one of the motivations among many others has been a real and genuine fear that I do NOT want to have to admit a relapse. Certainly there are many other reasons as well, but at least in my case the fear of DISAPPOINTING my friends in the fellowship has been a real factor. ..."

This is the main reason I do not feel the need to broadcast. There is no freedom (to me) living sober based on the shear fact what others may think of me if I don't. I genuintely want to stay sober BECAUSE I WANT TOO. However I can honestly say that for the last 9.5 months I did not want to relapse for your reason above. I lived in fear. Deep down I still felt trapped. Will my friends dump me if I drink? Maybe this new found life in AA is as conditional as my friends that drank with me...?

The bottom line is I am not suggesting drinking on the sly..I'm suggesting living sober "now" after the relapse, just not telling anyone. I am not suggesting celebrating and discussing old "time" as it was..just not mentioning it at all. Goal: move past the fall, get the time back and be done with it. Should anyone ask the time..."I believe in we only have today"..end of story. Nothing has changed in terms of the promises (to me), the meetings are not "defective" nor is my God any less...the fact is one fell and one gets back up...just not anyone' elses business.

I actually believe (for me), after 9.5months sober...being extremely active in the program...many, MANY friends....most that look to me as inspiration and encouragement...for me falling, going back would be harder than the drink itself. Even if I did tell everyone...one of my greatest challenges is disappointing others...I would probably drink again. that happened with me last fall. I went right back, confessed it...my own sponsor wanted to "fire" me..I basically had to beg her not too. I almost lost a couple friends over it in AA...my main issue (then) was a broken relationship..."{rejection}"...I felt more rejected than ever from the rooms. 3 weeks later I drank again..then had to do it all over again.

I personally go to many meetings..I would literally have to confess to each one..then come back and repeat to ensure all my friends knew...so I wouldn't have to watch their faces again later hearing it 3rd party...this is living in fear, martyrdom if you ask me.

I don't disbelieve in AA, I don't disvalue everything I have learned..I made a mistake (yes everyone it is me)..but to have to go to all my friends now would depress me more than just knowing what I did wrong and moving on. I would tell them...get back up...wear life loosely...you learn from this. I still believe in all the promises, principals and insights I learned through others and shared..to go back now and start over in trying to "explain"..first, there is nothing to explain? It cheapens my understanding of the issue for me. I get it. I get over it. To have to watch people's faces..explain, apologize,...mourn, hold my head down...or rather, hold it up where that (to me) is what I want to do..but then you have the people resenting me for coming right back with encouragement and power...why then do they have all this time if one (like me) can go out and drink and bounce right back.

So you see. I AM CONCERNED FOR OTHERS... I don't want to make it harder for them. tha'ts. all.

[Rowan]

I'm having difficulty understanding this whole thread. I'll stick with the OP's question:

First off, the following is not my opinion, it's been my experience.

I have relapsed twice in AA, both times after 2 years sober. When the chips were given out, I walked to the front of the room and collected my desire chip. If I shared it with only my sponsor or close friends, I would feel like I was keeping a secret. Alcoholics Anonymous is very much a WE program, and I cannot do this on my own, nor do I wish to. Everyone is free to their opinions, and what they do is none of my business. I really don't give a rats.

[bballdad]

Mercedes,here is my experience,and you can do with as you wish.
it concerns ego deflation of this alcoholic,not humiliation

for a year I was in and out
I decided to stop picking up chips untill I was ready to do the steps.
I had the "relaspes" and did not tell anyone about them.When I went to a meeting,the eyes of some of those there looked in my soul I felt.They knew I was not honest.But the reality is they did not know,I knew and that was bad enough....I knew I could not stay sober untill I really got honest,with myself and everyone.My alcoholic ego will do anything not to surrender.My ego had to be busted,and picking up those white chips and getting honest with myself and others about my drinking was a start.
Why would I want to go to AA and carry around a wet chip?It didn`t make sense to me then or now.Ok,I went to AA and asked for their help.They say,this is how it works,I need to follow them,conform to their ways,their ways work,mine did not and not buck the system they have.Thats just my self will wanting to control and manipulate AA
it is not a ego deflating surrender for me.

I have a friend who reminds me
you can`t save your face and ass at the same time
pick one he told me
I decided to save my butt and I got a white chip
in about one month,that will be 20 yrs ago and I am still sober
if I had not got that white chip,I really think I would not have made it sober
to thine own self be true

[CarolD]

Well....the only sober time I count is my own.
.....
Because it's the only DOS I absolutely know is true.

[sugErspun]

Originally Posted by Mercedes1

So you see. I AM CONCERNED FOR OTHERS... I don't want to make it harder for them. tha'ts. all.

Mercedes- I had to sit for awhile with this, as I may come across as a real a-hole for saying what I will say, but my intention is not to belittle, just to give some experience.

You state that you are concerned for others, specifically others in AA. How about being honest rather than living a lie? Being that there is no authority in the rooms (other than a loving God who may....), we are all the same. Without honesty as a root - we are all doomed to failure. Right? I don't think that keeping this secret is doing any good to your fellows or yourself. This is really between you and God - if/when you have prayed about this, what has been shown to you?

I don't know about the whole chip thing - my group doesn't give chips or cakes or do sobriety countdowns or anything like that. But, one of the most powerful experiences I have had in that group was seeing the chair (a year long position) coming in and saying he wanted to call a group conscience after the meeting because he no longer met the requirments to be the chair of that group (there is a sobriety requirment for that position) - he was 16 years sober at the previous meeting. I was about 9 months sober at the time and thought "wow, people really do live this way - it's not an act". I doubt very much if anyone in the room thought any less of him. I know I actually thought higher of him for it.

Another thing is about my character defects as revealed to me. I like to be there for people, reliable, they can count on me, but I don't reciprocate and allow them to be there for me to lean on because I don't want to appear 'weak', afterall, I am an alcoholic and life has not been easy, I want to stand up and be an example for all to see. I think the word is stoicism. I haven't thought much about that in awhile - but it came to mind as I read your post...reminded me of me. As bballdad says "I'm not that important" - how true for me.

I am not saying you need to put an article in the grapevine that you drank, but my experience is that living a lie only makes things worse. One of the great facts of my life today is that I have grown by facing and walking through unbelievable fear. If your reliance is where it should be - your answer will come.

~a

[Mercedes1]

I will digest all this. I have prayed and if I felt comfortable with my position I wouldnt be writing. The point I dont think was received on my end was I have no intention of collecting any chips or celebrating or keeping "secrets". As I said (or thought I said) I just am not going to discuss my time at all or my fall, only the solution (for me) which has not changed.

Once I tell this to people, let's also be honest, the discussion (all but atleast for a minute or two) will be on "why"...."Im so sorry"...the next meetings I go too no matter what type they are...step, bb, discussion..I'll feel compelled to raise my hand as they usually always acknowledge 90days or less. I'll get the looks. Moreover...I'll get the ones I look up too backing off, wanting to start all over with me or basically dis-associating with me..(I speak from experience). Some of these people it took all these past months to build what I conisder my best friendships.

Im being VERY HONEST to say I don't want to see all that crumble because I made a stupid choice in Florida on vacation in my room by myself to drink wine. Period.

I have pratcied a few times what to say..the infamous "why"? Nothing I say aloud imaginary to them or even to myself makes any sense. It sounds petty, excuse. Basically everything in my life was great that night...I was just bored. The one thing I knew I could do that I didnt was call my sponsor..and I chose not too. That is all I can say.

I went to a couple meetings already since I returned from vaca...I felt the tremendous guilt trust me not saying anything..then one of my friends introduced a beginner to me. She was concerned about going to a wedding this w/end. I told her what I tell everyone else to go with what you can "give" and not what you can't do...don't feel sorry for yourself or scrutinize everyone else that is drinking and wear a sour face.

As I drove home I thought to myself what a hypocrite I am to say that but have to be HONESt AGAIN...what I said is NOT a lie. That solution was presented to me awhile back and worked for me. Nothing has changed about AA, God and what to do..only I took a respite from sobriety and chose something stupid that night (for me). Basically, I needed someone to remind that to me.... in fact, that is what I actually believe God was telling me through this new comer...at that moment in the hotel room you stopped giving and was looking only out for what you "couldn't do" and "wanted to do". If I would have called my sponsor she would have told me that. We need others to help, for sure.

Anyway,...I just don't want every time I go to meetings now to be sad faces, distant mannerisms, confused looks, petty "im so sorry"...just sucks.

[Emimily]

my experience is that i have not relapsed.
my experience is that my mom has, numerous times.
my friends have, numerous times.
some came back, some didn't. the ones that came back all heard the same thing from me - we don't shoot our wounded here.
i would pick up a white chip if i had the desire to stop drinking, but that is my truth.

it sounds like you have your mind made up. are you waiting for a co-signer?

[Mercedes1]

I dont even know what a white chip is? For the record, I never acknowledged my 90 days because at that time didnt feel comfortable until I had time. So there is no bs from me in terms of days. I don't get chips or praise time I dont have. I did have 9.5months and no chips to account for that.

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by Mercedes1

Once I tell this to people, I'll get the looks. Moreover, I'll get the ones I look up too backing off, wanting to start all over with me or basically dis-associating with me..(I speak from experience).

Some of these people it took all these past months to build what I conisder my best friendships.

Anyway,...I just don't want every time I go to meetings now to be sad faces, distant mannerisms, confused looks, petty "im so sorry"...just sucks.

Wow! You're good! You have everything all planned out in advance, not only for yourself but for everyone else. You seem to have a way of knowing for certain what others will say, look like, how they will feel and treat you.

I am left wondering how one person can say some people are their best friends if they are not letting themselves be known fully and why, if these are one's best friendships, one would even consider that these same "best" friends would back off from her, an alcoholic, who honestly shared her struggles?

I am wondering why caring sober people should NOT start all over with a friend who "relapsed" recently, why that alcoholic should be or should even want to be exempt from the complete process of Step 1?

[Mercedes1]

Wow...that actually makes sense.

[Mercedes1]

I guess you hit the nail on the head...when I relapsed last August...I "felt" all my friends in the program did back off to some extent..others were more "harsh" than I felt necessary...and eventually things did get better.

So my "all knowing" is based on experience..not being proud. But have to admit if they are my friends and do distance and act weird again..so be it.

IOW, you are right...a friend is a friend no matter what. I guess then..I'll tell everyone.

Its my weakness worrying about losing their friendship..but its part of dealing with my actions.

[Jfanagle]

Mercedes

We all care very much about the newcomers no matter what path their recovery takes. Obviously it is great if you walk in and never relapse, but if you do I can assure you that after just about 9 years of sobriety myself, and watching countless people fall and get back up, I do admire the stick to it attitude of one who is trying and not always succeeding!

When I said that fear of disappointing my friends HELPED keep me sober I should have added that taking the steps early on and working 10-11&12 constantly along with service in meetings and at the GSO level has also kept me sober. Sponsorship has kept me sober as I try and help another alcoholic. It isn't one part of this program that works for me, it all of it combined.

I have never felt anything but admiration for the honesty that one expresses when he or she decides to return and give it another try. Believe me those of us who have managed to accumulate a few years don't resent someone who relapses nor do we wonder "how they bounce right back." We just know that sobriety is one day at a time strung together over weeks, then months, then years. We are all in this together and I for one could not do it without a higher power of MY understanding and my fellows in AA.

I wish you the very best, and am proud to part of an on line group that has you as a member. If you didn't take this seriously, I doubt you would have asked these questions.

Best of luck and keep coming back no matter what.

Jon