Money. The root of all evil???

[Signal30]

"Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them." (BB "Into Action", first edition)


The Big Book explains the importance of making financial amends. Financial situations have in fact led to relapse in some alcoholics.

"Money problems", are usually the number one cause of divorce and destroyed relationships. Many see one having an abundance of money as being powerful. But money does not buy happiness. An insane lust for money is defined in one word...

Greed.

Let's face it. It is a major reason why the real estate market is in the toilet, and fuel costs are through the roof. The "big wigs" with the money and power say it's because of supply and demand (fuel prices), yet it is well publicized of their record profits. China has over 2 billion people and is looked at as a serious over population problem, yet some see it as simply more potential paying customers.

Is money the root of all evil? Greed is obviously a bad character defect. Greed is a form of selfishness, and is one of the seven deadly sins. We all know as alcoholics in AA how dangerous selfishness and self-seeking objectives are to us. When we yearn for money and see the rich with all their toys it can harvest another bad character defect...

Envy. Yet another of the 7 deadly sins. And envy can lead us into resentment.

Selfishness and resentment. Money and greed can lead to both of these character defects and the BB says point blank the danger of selfishness and resentment.

I believe money is not the root of all evil. The value of money is simply financial and nothing else. Money can not buy you happiness, it cannot buy more attention from God, and it cannot buy you sobriety. Our minds play the part in making money that root to the evil.

Selfishness and resentment can come out in many different situations. It just appears the that they can arise more often in situations pertaining to money.

I learned and continue to learn that if I truly practice the principals of AA in all my affairs, I see that money is not all that important. I see it as important enough to support my family and really not much else.

That however can always change. If I decide to get complacent, it can be very easy to fall back into old and nasty habits.

Money isn't everything. It's only a thing. Love, selfless acts, and doing you best at doing the right thing are what's important. Doing Gods Will costs no amount of currency but is truly priceless.

Like the old saying goes...

"It's about belonging not belongings."


Tom

[Impurrfect]

Thanks for the post, Tom.

I find that money is the one thing I will still stress about. I am slowly learning to turn it over because every time I've worried, I still end up having enough to pay my bills.

I wait tables, and recently had a rough couple of weeks...business was really slow. Started to panic, got irritable, then just prayed about it and reminded myself that God hasn't let me down yet. A few days later I got my rebate check, business has picked up and the bills are paid.

You are so right...when we focus on money, we forget to focus on what's really important.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

[Signal30]

It seems like all you see on the news is high gas prices causing small businesses to fold, air fare sky rocketing to the point where the average person cannot fly, all the while someone, somewhere is reaping the money and getting rich.

Are these people with the money and the "power" really happy???

All the money and power in the world can't buy a ticket into heaven.

Turn it over!!! (To God) Or your money to me!!! LOL (jk)


Tom

[fraankie]

have you ever thought avout trying to get a book deal/
maybe a spot on cnn
how about your own show "moneyworld"

get your resume updated
i'm sure ef hutton will "listen" to you

[Signal30]

I must admit I get disgusted at the rising of fuel prices. We have the technology to put a man on the moon, we can take a heart out of a person who no longer needs it into a person who does, we have so many other forms of technology that would make scientists, and inventors of the past awe struck. But yet we cannot create a fuel that's cheap to make and doesn't consume the earths fossil fuels.

The modern engine in our vehicles may have computers and other technology, but the basic principal of how a engine runs to make the car go is no different than it was Henry Ford was drawling up the Model A. A liquid that ignites that moves the pistons.

A chemist can't create a fuel to move a piston that's cheap to make?

Greed.

It's scary to see how rising gas and especially diesel prices are effecting everyone. A lady who works at the grocery store a few blocks away told me they cut all full time employees to under 40 hours. She said it was due to the rising cost of the stores products. It takes trucks, trains, and ships that all run on diesel to distribute that gallon of milk, or that can of soup we buy at the supermarket. This is a major chain supermarket, imagine what it's doing to all the "mom and pop" owned shops.

But someone, somewhere is getting richer off it.

I have to accept it. I can only pray. Praying is always free!!! (At least it is in America)

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, I'm really not resentful, honest!!!! lol.


Tom

[Signal30]

fraankie, thanks for the compliment, but I'm not all that smart. Just a little opinionated. Sometime too much for my own good. I don't want the fuel executives hiring a sniper to take me out...lol.


Tom

[fraankie]

opps, forgot to add it was a
lol

i always keep in mind what a high school friend told me
(who had just gotten a big settlement with his divorce)
who's in the program
not long ago

i was a little lax with my finances
and was beginning to make progress
a job, save money, be very attentive to every penny, etc
so as i was sharing with him
"frank, what you have is worth all the money in the world"
i thought about it since
he's right
(and i kinda guessed why he didn't loan me 5 g's)
he wanted to ........
(gossip, gossip hurts, shut my mouth)


best
frankie

[sugErspun]

It was proposed to me once by a professor of sociology that money, in function - does in a way lead to happiness.

Take any situation you are in, love, church, work, friends, house, vacations, marriage, children, families --- whatever it may be..

Add more money to that situation - does it 'seem' better?

In the fourth dimension - I think money matters little, the foundation of happiness is not found in the dollar (or pound or euro) - but in the reality of day to day life - who can say that it wouldn't be better if they had a lot more money.

I could go visit all my friends home groups - travel to all the conventions, help more people who can't help themselves.

Like I said - money is not a requirment for happiness, but it sure doesn't hurt to have more.

So no - it's not the root of all evil, nor the root of happiness. I paid back some financial things that I probably didn't have to (in particular a ticket that was over 10 years old ad the court could not even find a record of it anymore - had been written off. I found the original because I keep everything- and gave it to them with the cash to cover it..), but I got free from it - that was great and the money isn't missed..


Tks Tom - good topic.

[Signal30]

Money is obviously a necessity. There's no way around that. But from what I see in the media which always seems to have more and more bad news, the greed of others is destroying our economy. Here's an example, Two Ex-Bear Stearns Fund Managers Indicted - FOXBusiness.com

And what can be more frustrating is that is doesent have to be like this. This is all preventative.

I pray one day that more people in our country and in our world can find it in their hearts not to be so selfish and greedy. A simple moral standard is all it would take to change our country and change our world.


Maybe one day. I'll keep praying.


Tom

[miss communicat]

"to live content with small means;
to seek elegance rather than luxury, and refinement rather than fashion;
to be worthy, not respectable, and wealthy, not rich;
to study hard, think quietly, talk gently, act frankly;
to listen to stars and birds, to babes and sages, with open heart;
to bear all cheefrully, do all bravely,
await occasions, hurry never.
In a word, to let the spiritual, unbidden, and unconscious,
grow up through the common." (william henry channing)

this is my value

[bugsworth]

Great topic...seems not to be a 12 step only issue so I thought I would weigh in...

I am not sure what the 4th dimension has to do with living life on life's terms, and lets face facts money is a necessary evil.

Money does not create happiness, but for people who can't feed their children it sure would help a lot.

There are many ways we can help...don't by pass the Mom and Pop stores for the cheaper chain stores...I never shop at Home Depot...I go to the local paint store or the local plumbing store for supplies...who cares it costs .75 cents more for a washer or a gallon of paint. I support my local bakery, butcher and deli.

I also contribute to my local food pantry...dropping off canned goods that I find on sale...hell when corn is .49 cents a can but a few extra and donate.

We are not powerless over the rising prices, we must find ways to be creative.

The economy will always fluctuate...the late 80's are a prime example...it has come full circle again.

Be grateful when your family is warm in the winter and your children don't cry from hunger...not everyone in this world is so lucky! Money is not a reason for anyone to relapse...an excuse maybe...not a reason...Hell what does a good bottle of booze cost?

Just my 2 cents.

[sugErspun]

The fourth dimension...

"The further limits of our being plunge, it seems to me, into an altogether other dimension of existence from the sensible and merely "understandable" world. Name it the mystical region, or the supernatural region, whichever you choose. So far as our ideal impulses originate in this region (and most of them do originate in it, for we find them possessing us in a way for which we cannot articulately account), we belong to it in a more intimate sense than that in which we belong to the visible world, for we belong in the most intimate sense wherever our ideals belong."

William James - "The Varieties of Religious Experience"

Money means little there. In my experience, life does not dictate terms when I am going with the flow. Erm - conscious contact...I guess you could call it acceptance, or realization that I am not that important - just going with the flow.

I can spend my time there, or get caught up trying to fight it - then I am overly concerned with gas prices, the credit crisis (I get paid to worry about that - so once I am away from the office, it's out of mind), big business vs small business, foreclosure rates - it could drive someone nuts if they are unable to separate what life really is about from these minor details that only exist 'out there'.

I don't know what it is - but I just don't worry about money issues very often these days (fwiw - I drive 75 miles round trip to work and get 15mpg in my tuck - I spend about $140/week on gasoline alone). God has always taken care of me, with or without money. (btw - I am by NO means a wealthy individual)

[jimhere]

"We try not to indulge in cynicism over the state of the nations, nor do we bear the weight of the world on our shoulders..."



Big Book references from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

[LosingmyMisery]

Money makes the world go around. Money can't buy you happiness. Money talks. Money often costs too much.


I wouldn't know about the advantages of having a lot of money. I have suffered financially for many years. It has become a way of life, a result of my alcoholism with some added outside contributions out my control. I have learned much through my struggles. There were nights where I wondered how I would ever get back on me feet again. On the other side of the coin, I've always had a roof over my head and most nights, food in my stomach. In the final hours, things seem to always work out. This is truly a blessing and something I have recognized only because I am sober. If I were not, I would be blind to it. Today, I am okay with watching my pennies. I've become very frugal and I find the process and valuable commodity.

Mainly, I am looked down upon by the creditor's. I have bad credit and I'm viewed as a second class citizen. I am a deadbeat because I owe a lot of money to debt collectors. I was out of work for quite some time and owe a great deal as a result.

This is what I have learned. I can be deemed lesser than. I can be harassed by creditors and I can be denied loans. I pay higher home owner insurance and car insurance. I'm puzzled by this logic. I am broke, therefore you should pay more. None the less, no one can take away my strengths, growth and knowledge I have gained.

I have overcome great struggles and have become a better person for it. This is something money can not buy. I have struggled and I'm now on the upswing. Slowly, I am making headway, financially. I have a long way to go, but as long as I stay on task, and remain sober, I will get there.

Each day I count my blessings and monetary things have no great meaning to me. Character and gratitude are things have value IMO.. When my pocketbook is empty, my soul remains rich. This is due to the struggles and the lessons behind them.

I drive a beater car. I have not taken a vacation in many, many years. I do not own a cell phone, a MP3 player or a HD TV. I don't need them to survive. I am happy and content in knowing that I have risen above. I know what is truly valuable in life and it has nothing to do with how much is in my bank account. There is no denying that money can make life easier. It garners you more options in life. It can not buy you joy or ground you spirituality. That comes from within and personal growth. I think those with a lot of money can grow stagnant and lose touch with reality. I don't have much, but I have my feet planted firmly on the ground. To me, that is priceless. I know it can always be worse. How? I've been there.

The real measure of your wealth is how much you'd be worth if you lost all your money. Author Unknown.

[ananda]

I really don't think money is the do all and end all and i really find it wierd that those without end up paying more as was said before. I was raised middleclass, became very poor, got some lucky breaks and got ahead (hard work, but lots of people work hard and never get the payoff that i have been lucky to have).

That said....I was dirt poor the first time I got sober and doing well the second time.

I just know for me it was easier to get sober with money in the bank. I could pay for special help, treatment, the dr bills for my ilnesses, take time off work with pay for the treatment and the follow up health issues, could pick up take out food and still make it to a meeting, and on and on and on

For me that made it easier as there was the financial stability to support me in my recovery.

I am just so grateful that I was given this easier way this time and have nothing but admiration for those who have to deal with early recovery without any financial support.

[best]

Money. The root of all evil???

Money isn't bad or evil. Money isn't the root of evil either.

The love of money is the root of evil.
Pride sure is a ugly trap as well.
Pride and greed tend to hang out together and then their other brother...selfishness also seems to show up as well.

A humble heart and an empty pocket can be a joy filled life when you have the right attitude in your heart. I have had more tears of joy come my way when my pockets were empty then I ever had when my paycheck was cashed.

[Sheryl85]

One of the last promises to come true for me was the fear of financial insecurity would leave. The reason it took so long is that I had things wrong in my head about that statement. Before I got here I thought that if I had money I wouldn’t have all these problems and wouldn’t have to drink. Funny how it worked out that not drinking would take care of a bunch of the problems instead. That was my character defect. I thought that my financial situation had to be “perfect”, debt-free as it were, but that’s not what the promise was saying. It says that my fear would leave not the situation. Today I’m still not debt free and probably never will be, but it’s okay. My Higher Power is taking care of things, but I still have to do the foot work and take the action. (God rewards honest effort, not wishful thinking…)

I could be wrong, but isn’t it the “love of” money that is the root of all evil?

I just saw that Best brought that up when I refreshed before I was to send this... How about that? I'm right for a change!

[Signal30]

As stated before I see greed (or the love/lust for money) as the culprit. Greed opening a possible vicious path to selfishness. If we are spiritually fit and practice humility then I think falling into the the action of greed is harder than if you of course are not spiritually fit.

Tom

[Tazman53]

We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.

I used to wonder what was spoken of here..... "fourth dimension"??? As I worked the steps I found what they spoke of, in regards to money I found I viewed it differently, it went from something I must have, that was the answer to all of my problems, something I lusted for into simply a tool!

Thanks to having worked the steps and now applying them to my daily life, I find money to be a tool...... it is a tool to help me care for my family and others. It is a tool I have to work for like many other things in life, money is no longer a driving factor in my life, it is simply a part of my toolbox that I manage with the guidance of my HP.

There was a time when it was a root of evil for me, not today.

[mrhodes01]

When I was way in debt, I was much happier than I am now with a comfortable amount of savings and a good job (the only thing I haven't lost in the last year due to drinking). Once I turned things around financially a few years ago, not coincidentally because I'd been sober for 1.5 years, I began to fear losing what I'd gained. I was a white-knuckling, AA-bashing sober guy with his own plan, so you know what happens next.

It's money that's keeping me anxious, fearful, and relapsing. I constantly think about the money I blew last year on activities related to drinking and drugging. The more money I had, the cockier I got, the worse the benders, the worse the financial damage...and on and on. It's all the harder to take because I'm so smart and careful with my money when I'm sober, not to mention I was supposed to be getting married this year.

Part of my plan in recovery was to get that money back in the stock market (I am a financial analyst, but that doesn't mean I can get rich quick). As you can imagine, my lust for a financial remedy to spiritual problem has kept me spiritually bankrupt and led to relapses, both when I do well with a trade and when I lose money

I'm not cocky now. I'm full of despair. But I'm also no longer focused on money lost. It comes and goes. I'm trying to be grateful for what I have and to keep things simple. If I don't, I'll be dead.

Good post, Tom--thanks.

MR

[fraankie]

just a note
a magazine was interviewing star about his forthcoming movie
one of the questions was....
something like
"how is it to have all the money?"
his reply
'money only matters when you have none"
my thoughts on that ar.......................
now,
shut my mouth


best
frankie