When My Job Interferes With AA.

[Signal30]

Last Friday at a Big Book meeting I go to, a male subject attended the meeting. He looked familiar at first, then it hit me how I knew him.

I've arrested him before.


As some of you know, part of the departments jurisdiction I police is a level one trauma hospital. This hospital treats all the serious injuries and conditions of patients as well as treats the homeless and those without insurance. (Let's just say there are some interesting characters that come in often.)

Anyway, this guy looks across the room from me and figures out who I am and begins staring me down. I'm thinking to myself, (Oh God, please no drama.) Other officers, including myself, have arrested him as well as having to literally throw him out. When drunk and/or high this guy can get combative, and once he became combative towards me, forcing me to have to take him down to the ground to handcuff him. When he's drunk he usually starts swinging. (He's been "tuned" up a few times by officers, legally and justified uses of force.)

This guy tries coming to the hospital simply for a roof over his head. He fabricates injuries so he can register and we can't kick him out. The hospital and departments policy is strict about not having the ER lobby as a homeless shelter. After he gets treated, we always have to ask him to leave and either walk him out, carry him out, or take him to jail.

No incident happened that day, but a fellow member did advise me that he has been pan handling before and after the meetings, and is on the verge of being asked to leave. He has been found sleeping on a park bench on the property where the meetings reside at all hours of the day and night. He's not homeless, he does have an address where he sometimes resides.

I understand he is sick with the same disease of alcoholism that I have. I only hope if he approaches me it is a pleasant experience. If he gets stupid, I won't hesitate to do what I have to do. My sponsor is aware of the situation.

Thank God this situation doesent happen often.

Tom

[laurie6781]

Tom I understand, except from the other side of the story, lol

Back in the 70's and early 80's the L A Police Dept had a special division that was called The Metro Squad.

They drove dark bronze or brown vehicles. To even qualify for that squad you had to be a minimum of 6'2" and most were 6' 4" or more.

In August of 84 there was a meeting I was attending regularly in Van Nuys, and one night this fellow was there that I hadn't seen at the meeting before. Big Dude. I kept looking at him for almost the whole 1 1/2 hour meeting.

It wasn't until near the end of the meeting that I finally realized where I knew him from and who he was. He was one of 6 Metro cops that it took to subdue me one night (yeah I was a vicious, mean, nasty, wild animal, living the streets) and get me to Hollywood Station.

Well, gulp, now what was I going to do. Got the courage, went up and said hello after the meeting. Lo and behold, he remembered me, Gee I wonder why? rofl Told me I looked a hell of a lot better sober and calm than the last time he saw me, and yeah I hurt him and a few of his brethren that night. We laughed. Talked some program, and he and his wife and my husband and I became friends. He btw had been sober at our first encounter.

Seems he had been injured a few times since that infamous meeting of ours, and was still in the service of the LAPD but basically was now Desk Sargent at the Van Nuys Division. They moved to the valley and he was finding new meetings rather than going back over the hill into LA proper.

He passed several years ago now of lung cancer, but he died sober. He was a good friend.

I tell you this, to remind you of expectations. Don't put any on this man. Oh yeah, he may have figured out a 'new angle' for him, pan handle after the meeting, then again, you never know, he just may hear something that will change his life forever. He may also be sleeping on the benches (as I remember some of our newcomers did) to be sure NOT to miss the meetings. There is many the story from an Old Timer at N. Hollywood club of how they slept near or behind the club in their first months of sobriety, even though some did have a 'place to stay or sleep' more in fear of missing the meetings than any thing else.

Just sit back, attend your meetings for you, watch and wait. If the fellow should come over to say 'Hi.' It's real easy to say "good to see you here, keep coming back," and move on.

If he is trying to find sobriety he is probably very afraid of you (with 1/2 memories clouding his head) and wondering what you are going to do.

Enjoy your meetings, if he should act up you will know what to do intuitively.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[serenityqueen]

"Wow! Not quite sure what to say, Tom. When I first saw the title to this thread, I thought it was someone coming on SR, making up excuses as to why they are too busy to get to meetings and then admit they picked up, blaming their busy schedule. Then I saw who posted it. I knew that couldn't be the case when I saw your name.

I know how I feel the moment I walk into meetings. . . at home, relaxed, comfortable. I have ran into people from my past at a meeting that I have not had an exactly pleasant relationship with. . . someone I got into an arguement at a bar with, stole drugs or money from . . . and I know how my heart starts beating fast, looking at this person, wondering what's going to take place. Thankfully, most times nothing ever came of it, no drama. I used to duck out as fast as possible as soon as the meeting ended. I know after I had close to two years in the Program, I actually had went and apologized for my past behaviors to more than one person with mostly postive results.

But your situation is something entirely different.

It has to be hard sitting there knowing that the "right thing" to do is to accept this person into the Program, let past issues stay where they need to be, in the past. But then at the same time, knowing he can be violent and at the same time not wanting anything to happen in your regular meeting. The Program tells us to accept these people, give them the benefit of the doubt so to speak at their sincerity for being there, but then . . . I know my mind would be going several different places if I were in your shoes.

From what I know of you from here on SR, you will continue to handle this in the appropriate way, being cautious but accepting at the same time. I want to thank you for bringing this up, I imagine it will help others with situations they can and will more than likely run into at meetings. I don't think to the extent of your situation though. I know it has to be difficult in your line of work having others possibly thinking that you need to take care of the panhandling, sleeping on the grounds of the meeting site and any other incidents that may happen not just with this guy but any others as well.

We all need to keep in mind that when someone in your position in the community comes to a meeting, you are not there as a member of law enforcement, you are there for the same reason as most . . . to continue to work on you and to stay Happy, Joyous & Free. But I'm sure it is a comfort to those at the meeting knowing that you have the proper training and insight as to how to handle a situation if it would get out of hand.

God Bless You Tom and thanks for the thread! You bring things up that give many of us the opportunity to look at things from different perspectives. And I'd also like to thank you for your avatar. Your son couldn't be any cuter!

Hugs,
Judy

[AW2486]

If I were sitting in your meeting knowing what your line of work is.. I would feel real safe. That if any situation would get out of hand, it would be handled.

I really like what laurie said. Someday this guy might find what we are grateful to have, and might thank you in the end.

Just think.. the first forty members would drag guys like that off the park benches and bring them to oxford group meetings.

[Signal30]

The meeting I am referring to is at an AA clubhouse. Clubhouses have the right to ask someone to leave if they are there for reasons other than the desire to stop drinking. Clubhouses are also on private property owned by them. One of the reasons I confided with my sponsor is because he is on the board of the clubhouse. I really don't want to get involved with telling him to leave unless I have no real choice. Members tend to look at me when something uncomfortable has to be handled. I may be a cop, but I am NOT a AA cop! I love doing service work, don't get me wrong, but in situations like this, I would prefer some distribution of that kind of responsibility.

I guess I should of been more anonymous.

Policing a popular hospital, you come in contact with a lot of people through out the years. Some of them are not to happy to see you. I have been punched, kicked, spit on, and my life and families life have been threatened in the past, (usually after a violent arrest). When I recognize someone I have arrested on the street, I have to be on high alert. I don't like carrying it (laziness mostly), but I do carry (concealed) my off duty firearm from time to time and yes there have been a small handful of times I have been armed in a meeting.

There's nothing more stressful than when you see a person you arrested on the street, who threatened you, and to make matters worse your two year old is with you. (That happened once.)

I do my best to be an AA member at a AA meeting. I don't care to "switch channels" to "cop mode" when I see a possible threat at a meeting. It can in fact suck.


This man has yet to approach me, if he does I will treat him the same as all my fellow brothers and sisters in the fellowship.

Tom

[jlo34]

I'm a paramedic and when I use to work for an ambulance company I had a few "uncomfortable" situations happen. Number one was a guy who was always in and out of meetings we got called on for a "suicidal subject". I volunteered to take him as my patient (we work in twos) and due to him being intoxicated, I requested an assistant from the fire department to ride in with me; would so happen another member of AA. It was actually pretty cool other than the guy totally blew my anonymity.

A while later another man who was always in and out (has passed on never getting sobriety), was inpatient at the hospital. My partner and I (course my partner was my supervisor that day) were there to pick up a person and drop them off. This guy came down the hallway, immediately recognized me though he was schizophrenic and loudly (in front of the nurses' station and my partner) asked if I still went to those AA meetings and blah blah blah. I don't choose to share with everyone in my life that I attend AA. Especially as a paramedic in charge of multiple drugs.

The off side of it was whenever I transported an intoxicated person; they got an "intervention" on the way in. I transported many from hospital to treatment centers and it was unbelievable. I don't know if it did any of them any good, it sure did me a world of good though. Course, they were stuck talking to me until we got to our destination spot!!!

I can appreciate your situation Signal. Best advice I have for you, is pray about it and turn it over.

Blessings,
Jen

[Impurrfect]

((Tom))

Your post just reminded me of something that happened to me when I was on the streets using crack. I was stopped by the police a LOT...now I realize that they were trying, really hard, to get me off the crack and keep me safe. I got lots of lectures, and offers of help and for that, I'm grateful. One of the cops took me aside and told me he was in AA and if I ever wanted help getting to a meeting, a safe place (not living on the streets) to call him. There is one sargeant (well, now she's a lieutenant) that I will alwasy be grateful for...she was always honest, treated me like a human, and encouraged me to get my life back together. She was there the last time I got arrested. I wrote her a letter to thank her and tell her I was doing really good. I told her that all the times she talked to me, were not forgotten.

I can imagine it can be a pain sometimes when people depend on you to "keep the peace", but I'm glad you are there! Since I was a nurse, people also depend on me when health issues come up. I recently had a coworker that had a stroke at work and I was able to get him help and get the info the paramedics needed. I thanked God that I was in the right place at the right time....I think you are also at the right place at the right time. I hope he eventually reaches out for the help that he so obviously needs. Just remember...just because he doesn't "get it" now...doesn't mean you aren't helping him...it just may take a while for him to realize it.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

[Tazman53]

One of the cops took me aside and told me he was in AA and if I ever wanted help getting to a meeting, a safe place (not living on the streets) to call him.

That really got to me......... man did that get me right in my heart!!! Amy cops are for the most part good people doing a thankless job, your whole share said it all about LEOs.

Tom you know you may want to consider a pre-emptive strike the next time you see that guy at a meeting if he is sober. You simply holdiing out the hand of AA to him may be just the ticket for him to understand that in AA we are all equal and that you do have an understanding of his own personal hell.

I may be a cop, but I am NOT a AA cop!

Tom I understand what you mean by that, you are in a damn tough spot, because (correct me if I am wrong) if the crap really hit the fan you are duty bound to take off your AA hat and put on your LEO hat if need be. Some how I have a feeling that if some thing bad started going on at a meeting you would not be alone in dealing with it.

[Sugah]

That's a tough one, Tom. Perhaps the guy will open up his ears and something good will come of it. Anything's possible.

I'm just ducking in here to drop a little second-hand experience - not the same, but similar, in that both parties realized they knew each other from some other time and place.

My husband is an attorney. When alcohol finally beat him into a place where he was ready to start taking suggestions, he asked a particular man to sponsor him. When meeting with this guy for the first time, the sponsor asked if he'd mind disclosing his last name. My husband told him, and the guy said, "I thought I remembered you." Turns out my husband represented his sponsor's ex-wife in their divorce - a big, messy affair while the sponsor was still in active alcoholism (he's now 20 yrs sober). For other reasons, their sponsor-sponsee relationship didn't last, but they're good friends today - and both still sober.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Signal30]

You know, I have been to many meetings and met many people. I have yet to meet a fellow officer in the program. I heard they exist, but yet to meet them. Either they do well at being anonymous, or there just aren't a whole lot of cops in the program. A lot of members know that I'm in law enforcement, because when I'm asked to do a lead I include it in my story because it plays a part in my past.


I was in a meeting in Florida a year and a half ago, afterwards I was talking to an old timer who was originally from Ohio where I live. I eventually told him what I did for a living, and he told me a sponsored a guy who was a police officer. He no longer sponsors this guy because he committed suicide.

That conversation got me thinkin a little.




Tom

[Tazman53]

I heard one heck of a good speaker at a convention that was a cop in Phillie, he had one heck of a ride to AA!!!!

[laurie6781]

Tom, in a lot of our bigger cities:

Los Angeles, Albuquerque, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Louisville, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Dayton, and yes even Akron, etc lol

there are meetings for basically just law Enforcement.

It something you might want to check out on the QT.

I still have friends on the force in LA that have been in the program a long time, and they still try and hit the Law Enforcement meetings once a week.

Just some of the info I have garnered over the years.

Love and hugs,

[jlo34]

We have quite an array of different professioned AA members around here. I know in bigger cities, many of the "more protected" persons attend "specialty" meetings. In good ole Lenawee County, we have judges, lawyers, etc at our meetings. Pretty awesome to have the mixture I think. We've had some cops too. Many were inactive by the time they "got" the program though.

Personally, I think it keeps it all real. No one's immune to alcoholism. Though I can understand the fear or uneasiness of some situations that may arise due to professional circumstances. I really like the reminder that hey, I'm not alone. Finding others that do the same type of work or see the same type of stuff I do helps me to eliminate the feelings of terminal uniqueness that I like to embrace when I just start feeling so darned special!!!

Blessings,
Jen

[Signal30]

I live in Cincinnati. I know there are others in law enforcement in AA, I just haven't met them yet.

I would change careers if it wasn't for the fact that my job pays well, good benifits, and my wife-to-be, son, and I go to college for free.


Tom

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Strange situation.

Hey, you're in the right not him.


Sad to say, alcohol is but a symptom of his disease.