... and now, those who condemn AA.

[RufusACanal]

More and more I read in the threads here of those individuals who openly despise and attack Alcoholics Anonymous. Usually these detractors in one form or another failed at finding the answers to a new life in the fellowship of AA.

These folks attack AA and it baffled me until this morning, because it makes no sense to me less I accept the fact that they are sick. Once I accepted that these are sick people blowing off about things they know nothing about and directing their ire again a concept known as AA, I was then provided a measure of peace.

Why would a sane and reasonable person find fault with a free organization of free thinking people that offers hope for free? Drunks are notoriously shortsighted and selfishly defective. These Drunks who attack the concept, do not attack me personally, why, they have no power. You see, AA is not their problem for they are their own problem; they refuse to look at self and be accountable and responsible for their own behavior. It is always easier to blame others. AA does not heal or hurt; AA is a concept and with all due respect to anyone, it works if applied, I am proof that the application of the concept is working.

The concept works when you take responsibility for your actions and make changes. When these people come to the threads, I will ignore them. You do as you choose. Remember that we as a group are here by the gift of SR and we are bound by the tenets of our society, namely freedom to be whatever you want to be, within reason.

I stand for a new life, I stand for Alcoholics Anonymous, but I also stand for the grace given by our benefactors here at SR. I no longer have to feel bad that those who would attempt to delude, distract and dispute the gift of a new life found in Alcoholic Anonymous is anything but what it is...BALONEY~!

[Music]

Thanks Ruf. You're very right! People who knock AA do so out of fear of the concept of AA which is simply to get honest with a Higher Power, self, and another human being. In "There is a Solution" it even states:

"Almost none of us liked the self- searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation."

What is the successful consummation? Freedom from the obsession and compulsion which is brought on by the insanity of taking that first drink! Fear!!! The absence of FAITH which exists because these people won't give AA a chance. The same FEAR that kept me in the dark for so many years concerning organized religion, with which I have a new found personal relationship, giving me a peace and serenity I've never known before. But, as with AA or anything else, it takes what it takes. I had to hurt bad enough to get it. Well, I got it and I pray every day I don't lose it.

Thanks again Ruf. Love you!!

[RufusACanal]

and I love you as well my friend...

[Tazman53]

And I love the both of you!!!

I like Rufus have finally accepted that those who attack AA or any other program are sick people.

Love and tolerance is our code, I know that I have found a new way of life in AA, I have found freedom from alcohol and self in AA, I have found what I need in AA to live life on lifes terms. I have no need to tear down other programs that help others to find freedom from alcohol, what love and tolerance do I show by tearing down other people or programs? None! Nor do I feel the need to defend what has saved me, I simply share what has worked for me and pray that others will want what I have.

Attraction rather then promotion.

[RufusACanal]

We are in love....... Gezzz, where's the popcorn.

[laurie6781]

When I got sober AA was the only game in town, thus is the FOUNDATION of my recovery.

Talk about FEAR, sheesh, I was scared, fearful, paranoid, yada yada yada. Walked into those first meetings shaking and not from detoxing.

I was met with Unconditional Love, understanding, no judgements and people whose smiles actually went all the way to their eyes.

Didn't know anything about the AA program in the BB but felt warm and safe so figured it was worth giving it a try, it had certainly worked for these folks, maybe I had a chance after.

Well it worked for me too and continues to work to this day.

When someone spews their hate of AA and attacks, I try real hard not to respond and if I just "have to respond" (ie can restrain myself no longer) I will post the list of a lot of alternate recovery programs that hopefully will deflect them.

I also have to remember that they too have great fear. I just don't like seeing that type of commentary in a forum that is about AA and probably has a lot of newcomers checking it out. However I do restrain myself pretty well today.

That is only because of my growth , using AA for my recovery foundation.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[tkdan]

It was not too long ago when I was on the other side of the fence on this one. I'm not sure I really knocked AA but I was certain it was not for me (coming to this conclusion without ever attending a meeting{talk about sick}). I only hope I can be as patient and tolerant as many of you were with me back then. I know what AA means to me personally and how it has impacted my life for the better. My hope is that I convey my experience in a way that would attract others not for the glory of AA but so that maybe one more might find the way to sanity.

[justanothrdrunk]

All I know is AA works for me and I like it. There's absolutely no reason for me to try anything else. And besides, why risk it? If it ain't broke...

Have a problem with AA? Then stop going to meetings. Don't like me going to AA meetings? Get over it.

And that's all I have to say about it.

[ananda]

I have a chair in AA and I'm not giving it up. I love the variety of recovery in my town's AA meetings. I learn from all the different experience strength and hope that is shared. I have my moments of bashing AA, not as a whole but as a particular meeting or share or whatever. I have had to learn to have tough skin when others attach "my AA". In the end, I learn from everyone.

[Tazman53]

"my AA"

Ananda you saying that helped me to grasp upon why I feel the hair raise on the back of my neck when I see/hear people bashing AA.

It is "my AA", when I first got into AA, it was all about "ME", as I worked the steps one day I realized that "I" had become "We", I was a part of AA, as a result I feel that when someone bashs AA they are bashing me!!!

I have finally figured out that folks who bash AA are folks who are not part of the "We" as a result they are not bashing me, they are bashing a concept that they can not grasp for what ever reason.

Bashing a particular program I think is out of fear or pride, not sure which one, it probably depends upon the individual.

[caraway]

"Bashing a particular program I think is out of fear or pride, not sure which one, it probably depends upon the individual."
Speaking from experience, I'd say probably both.

Its never bothered me to hear of people bashing AA and I hope it never does. When I was newer to AA I didn't like to hear of people who couldn't understand people who 'didn't get it' or didn't like AA, they always sounded so self satisfied, so UN-humble, so UN-AA.

We are all different and we all have our own path through life, sometimes, quite often, we don't understand anothers path. I think other paths should be questioned and if those paths are any good they should be strong enough to take any amount of bashing, and still come through in the end.

[CarolD]

Yes....recently we have had post that
break our SR Policy Rules & Regs guidelines
which I quote below.

4. Trolling: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums. We are here to share our experience and offer peer support. No other agendas that disrupt the forums will be tolerated.

These are not to be allowed
from any member for any reason.
Action was taken and will be in the future

It's an on going problem ... surfaces regularly..

Why do people not adhere to what
they agreed to when joining SR?

I have no clue ...

[Tommyh]

tks Rufus for posting what I had thought of many times...good post everybody!

it has bothered me ,and those from within AA who do it bother me too.

Just another opportunity to grow..once I cool down

I just read something from Bill W a few minutes ago that helps me with this


Within A.A., I suppose, we shall always quarrel a good bit. Mostly, I
think, about how to do the greatest good for the greatest number of
drunks. We shall have our childish spats and snits over small
questions of money management and who is going to run our groups
for the next six months. Any bunch of growing children (and that is
what we are) would hardly be in character if they did less.
These are the growing pains of infancy, and we actually thrive on
them. Surmounting such problems, in A.A.'s rather rugged school of
life, is a healthy exercise.
Bill W

[bob_sapp]

Why should I care if someone doesn't get the program and chooses to knock it instead? They will experience the fruits of their labors, as I will mine. I will not suffer because of their choices. One AA friend of mine says to me all the time "most people don't make it." This is true. I didn't just lose my drinking friends, I have lost AA friends who went back drinking. Some of them condemn AA so badly that just talking to them would make me want to go get drunk. At the end of the day I choose to go to AA because I don't want to drink, and I choose to work the 12 steps because I want to be happy, joyous, and free. I have never come across anyone who has something I want knock AA or the 12 steps, and I never will.

[caraway]

Originally Posted by bballdad

tks Rufus for posting what I had thought of many times...good post everybody!

it has bothered me ,and those from within AA who do it bother me too.

Just another opportunity to grow..once I cool down

I just read something from Bill W a few minutes ago that helps me with this


Within A.A., I suppose, we shall always quarrel a good bit. Mostly, I
think, about how to do the greatest good for the greatest number of
drunks. We shall have our childish spats and snits over small
questions of money management and who is going to run our groups
for the next six months. Any bunch of growing children (and that is
what we are) would hardly be in character if they did less.
These are the growing pains of infancy, and we actually thrive on
them. Surmounting such problems, in A.A.'s rather rugged school of
life, is a healthy exercise.
Bill W

That paragraph is something I love about AA. I know I for one am like a growing child, always saying the wrong thing and then worrying about it afterwards. I was having lunch with my son and parents earlier today which I enjoyed, but when I came home I started worrying about what I'd said and how they might take it and had to phone my mother up to make sure she was alright with it. My husband made fun of me and said I should write each sentence spoken down and go over it all word for word to make sure it was alright. Sometimes I wish I just had a script to read, it would make life easier. All this ad lib-ing and making it up as I go along is quite worrying. So its nice to belong to a group that for all our differences and mistakes we are still all in the same group!
Love you all!:ghug

[nandm]

Thank you for the thread Rufus. You and everyone else make some very valid points. I too can become protective of AA but I also try to counter that with respect for those who use other programs to get sober. Unfortunately, the problem can run both ways. I have seen AA'rs here bash other programs. IMHO bashing programs (including AA) that others have used to find sobriety is non productive and can harm the newcomer trying to find a way to change their life and stop drinking. I am thankful to those who keep in mind it is not the program that matters it is the person. AA saved my life and for that I am truly grateful. I would not trade the program for a million dollars.

[PaperDolls]

Thanks for this post Rufus. It's a good one.

I like everyone equally.

That's all I can do. I know what I need for me to be "ok". Who am I to say what another needs? Even though, it's hard not to be passionate about something you're passionate about. You know what I mean?

Right or wrong .......... everyone should express their opinions ................ but with respect. The lack of respect I see sometimes (and I don't only mean at SR) is a smack in the face for me sometimes. I just try to be "here" and do what I need to do to be "good" and to treat others with compassion and respect. I'm human and full of flaws and I try to remember that's what we all are.

Peace and hugs to ALL.





(wow, this might be my cheesiest post yet or is it just nonsensical?)

[Barto]

I’ve never really heard anyone bash AA except for real alcoholics that want to rationalize drinking. I’ve heard others bash members of AA (often attributing these member’s character defects to AA). What is there to bash in the suggested Twelve Steps? I suggest "nothing."

[Zanthos]

I'm actually more uncomfortable with certain types of people within AA who want to define it for all others, saying "this is AA" and "this is not AA". I feel much more threatened by them than by people outside AA who might bash it.

I, too, have had my life saved by what I've experienced in the rooms of AA. I feel dependent, in a healthy way, on the fellowship and protective of my access to a community of others in recovery who are interested in a lifelong process of growth and change. Unfortunately, there are certain personality types within the program who are fundamentalist, rigid, controlling and intolerant. I can't say I care for it when they come into my home group and try to tell the rest of us what recovery is REALLY about.