Think it through - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Rob B · 05-13-2008, 06:41 AM

My area is interesting, every couple of months a new slogan seems to get recycled. Lately it has been "Think the drink through" or think, think, think.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of these saying, it may be because I have no ability whatsoever to think it through, it simply doesn't happen. All the conversations I've had with alcoholics like me point to one thing, I am without defense against the 1st drink.My only hope is to maintain my spiritual fitness.

How can one have an authentic 1st step experience and admit they are powerless while simultaneously claiming to be able to think it through, does this not suggest a degree of control, or dare I say it..choice?

I can't be a little bit powerless in respect to alcohol, it's an all or nothing deal with me. I see a lot of people falling off the fence as a result of indecision, or perhaps confusion.

Emimily · 05-13-2008, 06:58 AM

i've used it before to get me through sticky situations... it's one of those paradoxes in AA, though. i see what you mean about full admittance of powerlessness contradicting any idea of "thinking things through", but i can also see how when i'm in a tough spot, i choose my thoughts.

i choose to pray. or i choose not to. either way, i reap whatever i sow.

with that said, i am powerless over people/places/things. i am not powerless over my actions or my reactions, and that's where that slogan fits into my world. plus, if you play the tape through at a coffee shop with some of your sicker AA friends, it can turn into a really funny game.

Rob B · 05-13-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emimily

with that said, i am powerless over people/places/things. :

Thanks Em, I always appreciate your comments. Here's a consideration. If you have an eight and 9th step that looks remotely like mine, you will see how much power you do have over people, places, and things.

I've got a little blue book with the title Alcoholics Anonymous. It tells me I have recovered and been given the power to help others. These days, I know where that power originates from and how to keep the juice flowing, so to speak.I suppose I could choose not to trust God, clean house and help others, but I don't want to die an alcoholic death. Self preservation is a fine motivator.

Tazman53 · 05-13-2008, 07:27 AM

Rob are we not playing a semantics game?

I have no power over you or anyone else. I can not change you or anyone else.

I do have the power in regards to my reaction to you and others.

Even then I still have the power to choose how to react to you and others.

I can choose to react to you or others strictly with my will or I can choose to react to you and others in the manner that is in line with my HP's will.

I have no power over alcohol once I put it into my body.

With the gift that my HP has given me I have no desire to put a drink in my body as long as I choose to do his will and not mine.

Maintaining my spirituality fit is my choice, it is not a gift, it is something I choose to work on every day to do His will and not mine. By me making the choice to maintain my spirituality and doing His will and not mine, my HP blesses me with many things, one of them is to not even desire a drink or even view a drink as a solution to anything.

Emimily · 05-13-2008, 07:38 AM

rob, i am going to come to NH just to hang out for a weekend and talk AA with you. it would be fun. anyway - i see what you're saying regarding the 8th and 9th step and the effects my debauchery had on the lives i rampaged through while i was active in addiction, but because i've made most of my big amends (still workin on those financials!) i've managed to clear some big wreckage from my past. if i do a 10th step, i can keep my side of the street clean. that helps me steer clear of causing more harm, and keeps my conscious clear.

i pray for god to keep me willing to give up my character defects that block me from my usefulness, and i believe that my actions and reactions are kept in check because of that concious contact. be that as it may, it's still my decision as a human living on earth whether i want to listen to my gut (smart!) or not (owwwch...). sometimes i don't. and i pay. but, that's my right and god loves me regardless.

do you fish up there in NH? i'd like to go fishing.

caraway · 05-13-2008, 08:03 AM

I remember when I first saw those think, think, think signs, I used to wonder what it was I was supposed to think about. Now, I think that right thinking does help to prevent me picking up the first drink. And right attitude too perhaps.

Tazman53 · 05-13-2008, 08:22 AM

Rob you know after Emimily replied to you I was able to grasp what you were saying, but in reality were you exercising power over them or were you using your will to impact thier lifes?

Once again semantics!!! LOL

Do I have power over other people?

In some cases I do have a degree of power, my children for instance.

In other cases I only have power over someone if they let me have power over them.

I have no power over someone who chooses not to give me power over them, I may have the power to stop one of my daughters from going out with some guy, but I have no power over whether or not she loves him!

I could ramble about this for hours, but I see where you are coming from and I think you see where I am coming from as well.

Rob B · 05-13-2008, 08:59 AM

I believe I know the intent of your heart Taz, as you know mine.
It is no secret I am a hardline bigbook guy, that being said, I am also a vocal critic of contemporary AA. God gave me a pretty good mind, it amazes me it still works on occasion. I think about tons of stuff, nothing wrong with thinking, my ability to think things through has shielded me from a fair amount of misery, for example financial decisions, and relationships. I am convinced though, that thinking will not prevent me from drinking.

I encourage folks to question everything, and to not take on face value everything that they hear or say, this applies to my opinions as well. I know the slogans are helpful to some people, I'm not knocking this,if it is working, great.

what I do worry about is replacing critical analysis and developing an informed opinion based on personal experience with one liners and cliches that can't be reconciled with the basic text. Probably another area in my life I need to surrender.

justanothrdrunk · 05-13-2008, 09:06 AM

I may be completely turned around on this...

I've always thought I had a choice when it came to the first drink. It's the drink after that where the problem lies.

As the saying goes, "first I take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes me."

triniteec · 05-13-2008, 09:16 AM

Here is another slogan that I use "play the tape through". Anyone else ever heard of this?

Tazman53 · 05-13-2008, 09:37 AM

Rob I concur that the program is in the BB, I hear some of the cliches and grimace myself, one reason is that they wind up being used way out of context and become in some mystical way part of the program when they are not.

For me one of the ones that gets my goat is when I hear folks say "Take what you want and leave the rest." in reference to the BB, we know in reality that is bull, that is in reference to what is shared in the meetings. When I went through the steps with my sponsor we used all of the BB from the cover page through page 164, we left out nothing, I have done the same with my sponsee.

Rob B · 05-13-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanothrdrunk

I may be completely turned around on this...

I've always thought I had a choice when it came to the first drink. It's the drink after that where the problem lies.

As the saying goes, "first I take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes me."

Do a search on this site for choice or control, there are some old threads on this topic that have been well discussed with a wide range of perspectives from hardline AA bigbookers, to folks who are doing there own thing and perfectly happy in their sobriety. it gives a pretty accurate representation of the various schools of thought.

gravity · 05-13-2008, 11:46 AM

I do not associate "think the drink through" with the Big Book. I find it to be more of a general tool used in different approaches to recovery. I find it very helpful when I am “daydreaming” – eg. The boys are going out for drinks after a hard day’s work or when the patios are opening up for the summer. Others may be able to have a drink, I can’t. Keeps me focused.

During my relatively short period of sobriety, I have come face to face with alcohol a few times. The most explicit case? At a hockey game, on either side of me, my colleagues (who I thought didn’t drink) were drinking these jumbo cups of draft beer and repeatedly offering me one. “Think the drink through” didn’t save me - the Creator carried me. I sometimes wonder how many other times my prayers have been answered in this way.

I also find that some of the most focused thoughts come to me “from out of nowhere” when I am in situations that would have led to drinking in the past. These thoughts include “think of what would happen, think of who needs you to be strong”. These thoughts strengthen my sobriety in an instant. I wonder if this is one way the Creator takes care of me?

sugErspun · 05-13-2008, 11:52 AM

I truly believe that when the book describes our condition of alcoholism as having no defense against the first drink - it's absolutely true. It has been my experience.

I have drank when I really did not want to - for no reason at all. No amount of 'thinking' was gonna save me in that state. Then get the liqour in me, the allergy kicks in and who knows when it will stop.

My reliance on something more than myself, a higher power - will carry me through those times, I have faith in that. Choice, power, control - all pretty much the same thing as far as I am concerned.

RufusACanal · 05-13-2008, 12:04 PM

THINK, THINK, THINK

"This slogan is not found in the BB but was adopted by AA members from
a sign that came with early IBM calculating machines. The sign said:

THINK of what you are about to do

THINK of what you are doing

THINK of what you have done

I have a tape by Clarance Snyder where he talks about someone bringing
the IBM sign to a meeting and they liked it and had a bunch printed
up. I also remember discussing this with Frank Mauser a few years back
and he conformed it. It appears in Akron/Cleveland literature from the late 40's or early
fifties."

Copied 5/2008

Rob B · 05-13-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

THINK, THINK, THINK

"This slogan is not found in the BB but was adopted by AA members from
a sign that came with early IBM calculating machines. The sign said:

THINK of what you are about to do

THINK of what you are doing

THINK of what you have done

I have a tape by Clarance Snyder where he talks about someone bringing
the IBM sign to a meeting and they liked it and had a bunch printed
up. I also remember discussing this with Frank Mauser a few years back
and he conformed it. It appears in Akron/Cleveland literature from the late 40's or early
fifties."

Copied 5/2008

Rufus, Nice detective work, and to quote the immortal Paul Harvey, "And now we know the rest of the story....good day"......

RufusACanal · 05-13-2008, 12:58 PM

...and now for my encore.

bballdad · 05-13-2008, 03:17 PM

I have a mental defense today against the first drink if it does not go too far.I am also a hopeless chronic alcoholic.
What is my mental defense?It`s really not all mental.Doing my inventory,praying for the knowledge of God`s will and the Power to carry it out daily.Helping new comers.Going to meetings.It`s called the AA Way of life and all together it gives me a mental/spiritual defense.

Think,think,think is a great slogan for us alcoholics.How many times do we say or do something without considering the other person? Like Dr Bob used to say,how will this affect the other person?We alcoholics have a
illness of perception also.If I dare not think and just do,then thats a bad recipe for
living sober and contented.If I don`t talk with my sponsor sometimes about my thinking,
I will screw it up.If i don`t do the 10th step,I can get out there..
example,I get a idea,looks great in my head.Looks great on paper...I`m fired up baby,I
go to the meeting and there is Emimily& Rob.I run it past them,and they just look at me,and says,Tommy,thats the craziest idea we ever heard.You been smoking reefer?

It makes sense to me,but in reality it looks crazy to others.
Thats the way we alkies are sometimes.We run thru our lives NOT thinking,and when we get sober we should think a lot in the proper prospectives.Some people refer to it as mental exercises, which, without them we become/stay mental loafers.My big book tells me I have a brain and I should use it.That takes mental energy,or think,think think is another way to put it.But to think along the right lines.To not think leaves one close minded,to think correctly opens my mind and allows me to see things from different perspectives and that produces growth.

am I 100% powerless over alcohol?If I start drinking you bet I am.What if I am sober?
I went 6 days without a drink coming off a 3 day drunk last drunk I pulled.Almost 20 yrs ago.But I wanted a drink real bad.
maybe my alcoholism just wasn`t as progressed as some others,maybe some others aren`t as progressed as mine.I don`t know.Thats their call.Maybe they really do have more of a choice than I do.

Bill W was one of those who raised the bottoms from low bottom to high bottom...

from no choice,no control to "maybe they still have a little control left at times..."
There is got to be a small area in between black and white

these are just my thoughts based on my experience,and hearing what others have to say about it.

There is room in AA for all of us.

jimhere · 05-13-2008, 03:17 PM

"Or perhaps he doesn't think at all." How can I think it through if I've been brought to a place where I don't think at all?

Sometimes I was blind-sided by a drink, it came out of left field and I'd find myself drunk wondering how the hell that happened. All the reasons didn't show up. Alcoholics drink with every reason not to and for no reason at all.

I've had experiences where, in a fit spiritual condition, with nothing going on in my life, member of a strong home group, sponsoring, being sponsored, a strong discipline of prayer and meditation, and sober a long time where the thought came from no where: "One of those would be good."

Nothing followed it. No "I'll blow fifteen years of sobriety," "I'll lose everything and go to jail," no reasons or information showed up at all. Everything I know about alcoholism and AA didn't show up. I didn't think at all. Why didn't I drink? The power of God seperates me from the next thought, which would be "I probably ought to have one of those."

"Once more at certain times there will be no mental defense against the first drink. Neither myself nor anyone else can provide that defense. It must come from a higher power." If you are an alcoholic of the type described in the book and are not convinced of that pertinent issue anjd believe you can rely on self-knowledge, good luck.
Jim

All Big Book references Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

ananda · 05-13-2008, 03:34 PM

"To not think leaves one close minded,to think correctly opens my mind and allows me to see things from different perspectives and that produces growth."

Thanks. I really like that.

There are times that I have no defense against a drink and my higher power is all that saves me. However, my higher power instilled me with a brain, and WHEN IT IS WORKING properly, I should use it, and if it isn't working (insanity), I probably won't even realize it and hope that my higher power will keep me sober. I tried leaving it up to god with birth control....and believe me it doesn't work! I have to be careful not to think I'm turning it over to a higher power when in reality I'm just being lazy or not wanting to take some responsibility.

bballdad · 05-13-2008, 03:48 PM

I was reading some mail when the lines from we Agnostics rang out to me.

WE AGNOSTICS
IN THE preceding chapters, you have learned something of alcoholism.
We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the
non-alcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely,
or if, when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take,
you are probably alcoholic.

from the 1st edition big book of alcoholics anonymous

sugErspun · 05-13-2008, 05:25 PM

We are like men who have lost their legs....

BB - First Edition.

05-13-2008, 06:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
Rob B Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southern New Hampshire Posts: 506 Blog Entries: 4	Think it through My area is interesting, every couple of months a new slogan seems to get recycled. Lately it has been "Think the drink through" or think, think, think. Personally, I'm not a big fan of these saying, it may be because I have no ability whatsoever to think it through, it simply doesn't happen. All the conversations I've had with alcoholics like me point to one thing, I am without defense against the 1st drink.My only hope is to maintain my spiritual fitness. How can one have an authentic 1st step experience and admit they are powerless while simultaneously claiming to be able to think it through, does this not suggest a degree of control, or dare I say it..choice? I can't be a little bit powerless in respect to alcohol, it's an all or nothing deal with me. I see a lot of people falling off the fence as a result of indecision, or perhaps confusion. __________________ Are You and I so Unalike? Last edited by Rob B; 05-13-2008 at 06:58 AM.

05-13-2008, 06:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Emimily Silly Rabbit Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 816 Blog Entries: 6	i've used it before to get me through sticky situations... it's one of those paradoxes in AA, though. i see what you mean about full admittance of powerlessness contradicting any idea of "thinking things through", but i can also see how when i'm in a tough spot, i choose my thoughts. i choose to pray. or i choose not to. either way, i reap whatever i sow. with that said, i am powerless over people/places/things. i am not powerless over my actions or my reactions, and that's where that slogan fits into my world. plus, if you play the tape through at a coffee shop with some of your sicker AA friends, it can turn into a really funny game. __________________ "To take for permanent That which is only transitory Is like the delusion of a madman." -Kalu Rinpoche

05-13-2008, 07:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tazman53 Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va. Posts: 7,343	Rob are we not playing a semantics game? I have no power over you or anyone else. I can not change you or anyone else. I do have the power in regards to my reaction to you and others. Even then I still have the power to choose how to react to you and others. I can choose to react to you or others strictly with my will or I can choose to react to you and others in the manner that is in line with my HP's will. I have no power over alcohol once I put it into my body. With the gift that my HP has given me I have no desire to put a drink in my body as long as I choose to do his will and not mine. Maintaining my spirituality fit is my choice, it is not a gift, it is something I choose to work on every day to do His will and not mine. By me making the choice to maintain my spirituality and doing His will and not mine, my HP blesses me with many things, one of them is to not even desire a drink or even view a drink as a solution to anything. __________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA

05-13-2008, 07:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
Emimily Silly Rabbit Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 816 Blog Entries: 6	rob, i am going to come to NH just to hang out for a weekend and talk AA with you. it would be fun. anyway - i see what you're saying regarding the 8th and 9th step and the effects my debauchery had on the lives i rampaged through while i was active in addiction, but because i've made most of my big amends (still workin on those financials!) i've managed to clear some big wreckage from my past. if i do a 10th step, i can keep my side of the street clean. that helps me steer clear of causing more harm, and keeps my conscious clear. i pray for god to keep me willing to give up my character defects that block me from my usefulness, and i believe that my actions and reactions are kept in check because of that concious contact. be that as it may, it's still my decision as a human living on earth whether i want to listen to my gut (smart!) or not (owwwch...). sometimes i don't. and i pay. but, that's my right and god loves me regardless. do you fish up there in NH? i'd like to go fishing. __________________ "To take for permanent That which is only transitory Is like the delusion of a madman." -Kalu Rinpoche

05-13-2008, 08:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
caraway Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 561	I remember when I first saw those think, think, think signs, I used to wonder what it was I was supposed to think about. Now, I think that right thinking does help to prevent me picking up the first drink. And right attitude too perhaps. __________________ "I've learned from my mistakes and I'm sure I can repeat them exactly." Peter Cook

05-13-2008, 08:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
Tazman53 Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va. Posts: 7,343	Rob you know after Emimily replied to you I was able to grasp what you were saying, but in reality were you exercising power over them or were you using your will to impact thier lifes? Once again semantics!!! LOL Do I have power over other people? In some cases I do have a degree of power, my children for instance. In other cases I only have power over someone if they let me have power over them. I have no power over someone who chooses not to give me power over them, I may have the power to stop one of my daughters from going out with some guy, but I have no power over whether or not she loves him! I could ramble about this for hours, but I see where you are coming from and I think you see where I am coming from as well. __________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA

05-13-2008, 08:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rob B Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southern New Hampshire Posts: 506 Blog Entries: 4	Intent I believe I know the intent of your heart Taz, as you know mine. It is no secret I am a hardline bigbook guy, that being said, I am also a vocal critic of contemporary AA. God gave me a pretty good mind, it amazes me it still works on occasion. I think about tons of stuff, nothing wrong with thinking, my ability to think things through has shielded me from a fair amount of misery, for example financial decisions, and relationships. I am convinced though, that thinking will not prevent me from drinking. I encourage folks to question everything, and to not take on face value everything that they hear or say, this applies to my opinions as well. I know the slogans are helpful to some people, I'm not knocking this,if it is working, great. what I do worry about is replacing critical analysis and developing an informed opinion based on personal experience with one liners and cliches that can't be reconciled with the basic text. Probably another area in my life I need to surrender. __________________ Are You and I so Unalike?

05-13-2008, 09:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
justanothrdrunk Retired Pro Drunk Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 519	I may be completely turned around on this... I've always thought I had a choice when it came to the first drink. It's the drink after that where the problem lies. As the saying goes, "first I take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes me."

05-13-2008, 09:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
triniteec Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Anytown, USA Posts: 10	Here is another slogan that I use "play the tape through". Anyone else ever heard of this?

05-13-2008, 09:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
Tazman53 Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va. Posts: 7,343	Rob I concur that the program is in the BB, I hear some of the cliches and grimace myself, one reason is that they wind up being used way out of context and become in some mystical way part of the program when they are not. For me one of the ones that gets my goat is when I hear folks say "Take what you want and leave the rest." in reference to the BB, we know in reality that is bull, that is in reference to what is shared in the meetings. When I went through the steps with my sponsor we used all of the BB from the cover page through page 164, we left out nothing, I have done the same with my sponsee. __________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA

05-13-2008, 11:46 AM	#13 (permalink)
gravity where the light is Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,446	I do not associate "think the drink through" with the Big Book. I find it to be more of a general tool used in different approaches to recovery. I find it very helpful when I am “daydreaming” – eg. The boys are going out for drinks after a hard day’s work or when the patios are opening up for the summer. Others may be able to have a drink, I can’t. Keeps me focused. During my relatively short period of sobriety, I have come face to face with alcohol a few times. The most explicit case? At a hockey game, on either side of me, my colleagues (who I thought didn’t drink) were drinking these jumbo cups of draft beer and repeatedly offering me one. “Think the drink through” didn’t save me - the Creator carried me. I sometimes wonder how many other times my prayers have been answered in this way. I also find that some of the most focused thoughts come to me “from out of nowhere” when I am in situations that would have led to drinking in the past. These thoughts include “think of what would happen, think of who needs you to be strong”. These thoughts strengthen my sobriety in an instant. I wonder if this is one way the Creator takes care of me?

05-13-2008, 11:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
sugErspun Thumper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles Ca Posts: 1,307	I truly believe that when the book describes our condition of alcoholism as having no defense against the first drink - it's absolutely true. It has been my experience. I have drank when I really did not want to - for no reason at all. No amount of 'thinking' was gonna save me in that state. Then get the liqour in me, the allergy kicks in and who knows when it will stop. My reliance on something more than myself, a higher power - will carry me through those times, I have faith in that. Choice, power, control - all pretty much the same thing as far as I am concerned. __________________ Although my eyes were open, they might have just as well've been closed....

05-13-2008, 12:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
RufusACanal Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,515	THINK, THINK, THINK "This slogan is not found in the BB but was adopted by AA members from a sign that came with early IBM calculating machines. The sign said: THINK of what you are about to do THINK of what you are doing THINK of what you have done I have a tape by Clarance Snyder where he talks about someone bringing the IBM sign to a meeting and they liked it and had a bunch printed up. I also remember discussing this with Frank Mauser a few years back and he conformed it. It appears in Akron/Cleveland literature from the late 40's or early fifties." Copied 5/2008 __________________ "Life is rather like a tin of sardines - we're all of us looking for the key" Alan Bennett Excerpts; First Edition of the Big Book of Alcoholic Anonymous

05-13-2008, 12:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
RufusACanal Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,515	...and now for my encore. __________________ "Life is rather like a tin of sardines - we're all of us looking for the key" Alan Bennett Excerpts; First Edition of the Big Book of Alcoholic Anonymous

05-13-2008, 03:17 PM	#18 (permalink)
bballdad Is my work solid so far? Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,155	I have a mental defense today against the first drink if it does not go too far.I am also a hopeless chronic alcoholic. What is my mental defense?It`s really not all mental.Doing my inventory,praying for the knowledge of God`s will and the Power to carry it out daily.Helping new comers.Going to meetings.It`s called the AA Way of life and all together it gives me a mental/spiritual defense. Think,think,think is a great slogan for us alcoholics.How many times do we say or do something without considering the other person? Like Dr Bob used to say,how will this affect the other person?We alcoholics have a illness of perception also.If I dare not think and just do,then thats a bad recipe for living sober and contented.If I don`t talk with my sponsor sometimes about my thinking, I will screw it up.If i don`t do the 10th step,I can get out there.. example,I get a idea,looks great in my head.Looks great on paper...I`m fired up baby,I go to the meeting and there is Emimily& Rob.I run it past them,and they just look at me,and says,Tommy,thats the craziest idea we ever heard.You been smoking reefer? It makes sense to me,but in reality it looks crazy to others. Thats the way we alkies are sometimes.We run thru our lives NOT thinking,and when we get sober we should think a lot in the proper prospectives.Some people refer to it as mental exercises, which, without them we become/stay mental loafers.My big book tells me I have a brain and I should use it.That takes mental energy,or think,think think is another way to put it.But to think along the right lines.To not think leaves one close minded,to think correctly opens my mind and allows me to see things from different perspectives and that produces growth. am I 100% powerless over alcohol?If I start drinking you bet I am.What if I am sober? I went 6 days without a drink coming off a 3 day drunk last drunk I pulled.Almost 20 yrs ago.But I wanted a drink real bad. maybe my alcoholism just wasn`t as progressed as some others,maybe some others aren`t as progressed as mine.I don`t know.Thats their call.Maybe they really do have more of a choice than I do. Bill W was one of those who raised the bottoms from low bottom to high bottom... from no choice,no control to "maybe they still have a little control left at times..." There is got to be a small area in between black and white these are just my thoughts based on my experience,and hearing what others have to say about it. There is room in AA for all of us. __________________ give freely of what you find and join us

05-13-2008, 03:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
jimhere Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 1,314	"Or perhaps he doesn't think at all." How can I think it through if I've been brought to a place where I don't think at all? Sometimes I was blind-sided by a drink, it came out of left field and I'd find myself drunk wondering how the hell that happened. All the reasons didn't show up. Alcoholics drink with every reason not to and for no reason at all. I've had experiences where, in a fit spiritual condition, with nothing going on in my life, member of a strong home group, sponsoring, being sponsored, a strong discipline of prayer and meditation, and sober a long time where the thought came from no where: "One of those would be good." Nothing followed it. No "I'll blow fifteen years of sobriety," "I'll lose everything and go to jail," no reasons or information showed up at all. Everything I know about alcoholism and AA didn't show up. I didn't think at all. Why didn't I drink? The power of God seperates me from the next thought, which would be "I probably ought to have one of those." "Once more at certain times there will be no mental defense against the first drink. Neither myself nor anyone else can provide that defense. It must come from a higher power." If you are an alcoholic of the type described in the book and are not convinced of that pertinent issue anjd believe you can rely on self-knowledge, good luck. Jim All Big Book references Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition __________________ "I am large, I contain multitudes." -Walt Whitman

05-13-2008, 03:34 PM	#20 (permalink)
ananda Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,537	"To not think leaves one close minded,to think correctly opens my mind and allows me to see things from different perspectives and that produces growth." Thanks. I really like that. There are times that I have no defense against a drink and my higher power is all that saves me. However, my higher power instilled me with a brain, and WHEN IT IS WORKING properly, I should use it, and if it isn't working (insanity), I probably won't even realize it and hope that my higher power will keep me sober. I tried leaving it up to god with birth control....and believe me it doesn't work! I have to be careful not to think I'm turning it over to a higher power when in reality I'm just being lazy or not wanting to take some responsibility.

05-13-2008, 03:48 PM	#21 (permalink)
bballdad Is my work solid so far? Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.C. Posts: 1,155	I was reading some mail when the lines from we Agnostics rang out to me. WE AGNOSTICS IN THE preceding chapters, you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if, when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. from the 1st edition big book of alcoholics anonymous __________________ give freely of what you find and join us

05-13-2008, 05:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
sugErspun Thumper Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Los Angeles Ca Posts: 1,307	We are like men who have lost their legs.... BB - First Edition. __________________ Although my eyes were open, they might have just as well've been closed....