Is AA a cult? - Page 2 - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

collinsmi · 05-04-2008, 06:44 AM

Pass the Kool-Aid, please.

Barto · 05-04-2008, 12:14 PM

Obviously you don’t know much about alanon BBD. They don’t sacrifice goats, they sacrifice Alcoholics! LOL.

Zanthos · 05-04-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Did you feel AA needed defending?

I guess I felt something needed defending or I wouldn't have felt the need to respond at length.

I think I was struck by the sheer number and vehemence of the negative comments, which I've never encountered before in one place like that. And I wanted to make a strong (but balanced) statement that might allow someone who was unfamiliar with AA to conclude that it was possible to have a very healthy, positive experience in the program.

And, of course, AA saved my life. I've learned in AA how to be the kind of person I always wanted to be (at my core), and attribute to AA my ability to enjoy and appreciate the fact that I'm alive. So of course, to some extent (more or less?), I was defending that. Even though it didn't need defending.

Finally, I love thinking, talking and writing about recovery, and an opportunity to comment on that website was as good an excuse to do so as any!

Zanthos · 05-04-2008, 04:06 PM

I wonder how members of other "cults" discuss whether they are part of a cult or not? Are they as reasonable as all of you?

prairierose · 05-04-2008, 06:43 PM

after all, my brain needed a good washing when I got in!

bob_sapp · 05-04-2008, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caraway

Did it keep them sober?

They are sober so whatever good for them. I'm still not going to read their weird pamphlets though.

Signal30 · 05-04-2008, 09:04 PM

Something to ponder...

Most churches (Christian at least), wouldn't let AA have their meetings on their properties if the churches thought AA was a cult.

Tom

Cathy31 · 05-05-2008, 01:56 AM

Wonderful article, thank you!

Tazman53 · 05-05-2008, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Of coarse it is a cult!
It is a cultivation of a relationship with ones higher power which enables one to have a lasting and quality sobriety!

Dan I really like that!!!!

bugsworth · 05-05-2008, 04:42 AM

Zanthos, You asked the question I wanted to ask...How many cult members sit around and discuss if they are in a cult? I found it odd the question was posed in the 12 step forum...what kind of answer did you expect?

You speak about peoples negative comments regarding aa on that site, that is just the tip of the iceberg...there are many many sites dedicated to getting the word out that aa is a harmful "cult". A link to the orange papers was provided here...that link gives 100 cult characteristics which aa fits perfectly for almost all of them. If you don't like the orange papers you can google aa + cult...many other sites will provide information on this subject. If it was not "cult like" there would be no discussion.

on another note...I was not going to post here in regards to this matter, but I just read your words of wisdom in the newcomers section regarding another members child....if that is the kind of person aa taught you to be, you may indeed be caught up in a dangerous cult. Google aa + deprograming...you need it.

Cathy31 · 05-05-2008, 05:05 AM

Bugs

I am going to answer your post in a very non AA way...i.e. not helpful but still wish to say it as your posts generally irritate me and this is just too much!

1) Are you sober, at all?
2) What is the quality of your sobriety?

Judging by your posts and bitterness I'd hazard a guess to say :

1) answer is not;
2) answer is not

Not that it's anything to do with me, I'm gratefully sober and usually quite serene LOL but your continual sniping and what it could do to a newcomer really grates me. I will pray for you.

bugsworth · 05-05-2008, 05:17 AM

Cathy...Your response is very typical from a member...you question my sobriety, then feign concern for the newcomer. No need to pray for me, but thanks for your concern.

I am sober, have been for a little over 11 months...as far as quality, it seems you have already made that judgement call.

Tazman53 · 05-05-2008, 05:24 AM

"Live and let live"

Quote:

Love and tolerance of others is our code.

Cathy31 · 05-05-2008, 05:27 AM

Bugsworth
You are right I did act typically in the way a defensive cult member would act! I am sorry that was unkind of me...I guess because AA saved my life it's a huge trigger for me when I read what I see is unhelpful nonsensical rubbishing of AA. But you are entitled to your opinion. Well done on your sobriety - I too hate it when people masquerade 'the newcomer' for their own agenda, in this instance I really did mean it out of concern for the newcomer...I would be dead by now if not for AA...not only am I alive but a productive happy member of society and the human race. One of the points i think you (chose to?) miss was that a cult is not always a bad thing...if AA IS indeed proven to be a cult - that sobers you up and makes you a better person well I say bring it on.

I'm sorry for my outburst...I have been irritated by various anti AA posts of yours, but I am not God (LOL) and you are absolutely entitled to share as you wish.

Cathy31
x

Zanthos · 05-05-2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsworth

on another note...I was not going to post here in regards to this matter, but I just read your words of wisdom in the newcomers section regarding another members child....if that is the kind of person aa taught you to be, you may indeed be caught up in a dangerous cult. Google aa + deprograming...you need it.

I don't know about Bugs' other posts, but she's right on the money with this one. I posted something in another forum that was truly, mindlessly messed up. She's right to question the kind of human being I am. Hell, I need to question the kind of human being I am!

bugsworth · 05-05-2008, 05:44 AM

No worries Cathy...aa does work for many, but the fact remains many people do view aa as a cult...a harmful one at that. I have never once in all my post up until now called aa a cult...like Zanthos, I have read tons of evidence (testamonials) coupled with my own experience leads me to believe otherwise. Thank you for being openminded enough to let me share.

Cathy31 · 05-05-2008, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsworth

No worries Cathy...aa does work for many, but the fact remains many people do view aa as a cult...a harmful one at that. I have never once in all my post up until now called aa a cult...like Zanthos, I have read tons of evidence (testamonials) coupled with my own experience leads me to believe otherwise. Thank you for being openminded enough to let me share.

No problem, thanks...I knew as I posted it was unkind and unnescessary..but sometimes the urge to act out is overwhelming! LOL! But thanks for your understanding that was not right of me, and I'm just grateful that I'm one of the ones that it has worked for...by the way my dad this weekend was calling AA a cult! LOL! talk about trigger on trigger!

Cathy31
x

bugsworth · 05-05-2008, 05:50 AM

Zanthos, I am a woman first off...lol...my momma bear came out...you were talking about another human beings child. We all make mistakes...learn and grow from it. I have no doubt you are a good person, neither should you. One mis-spoken post is not the sum of who you are.

Zanthos · 05-05-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsworth

Zanthos, I am a woman first off...

Fixed!

And thank you!

Tazman53 · 05-05-2008, 06:16 AM

Zanthos my hat is off to you, many of us never say "Sorry", many of us are incapabale of seeing the harm our written word can cause.

Sadly some of us view our own personal opinions so highly that we put them out there not caring that our personal opinions could kill someone seeking recovery by poisoning thier beleifs in different forms of recovery.

At SR we are supposed to be here to help and support each other in our chosen method/methods of recovery, not to insinuate bad things about different methods of recovery.

Many of us need to learn love and tolerance will always trump resentments and intolerance.

Barto · 05-05-2008, 11:05 AM

I think you hit the nail on the head. What other cult would even allow its members to discuss whether or not it was a cult? I don’t consider AA a “cult” using the commonly understood meaning of the word. But if it is under some technical definition, then I’m glad to be a member of a cult.

On that note, is Sober Recovery a cult? Me thinks it is, technically.

stone · 05-05-2008, 11:24 AM

AA doesnt want all your money and you are not required to sleep with the 'leader', so no it isnt a cult.

Barto · 05-05-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stone

AA doesnt want all your money and you are not required to sleep with the 'leader', so no it isnt a cult.

:rof

Still, maybe one of us should guard the door.

Would this count as a commitment?

05-04-2008, 06:44 AM	#26 (permalink)
collinsmi Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Colorado Springs CO Posts: 771	Pass the Kool-Aid, please. __________________ "I was violating my standards faster than I could lower them!"

05-04-2008, 06:43 PM	#30 (permalink)
prairierose Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 35	it's a cult for a buck! after all, my brain needed a good washing when I got in!

05-05-2008, 01:56 AM	#33 (permalink)
Cathy31 1 bite&all resistance crumbles Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: IRELAND Posts: 1,886	Wonderful article, thank you! __________________ Sober since 22nd March 2006 by the Grace of God and the Programs & Fellowship of AA and NA Life is Beautiful! Fake it til you make it...

05-05-2008, 05:05 AM	#36 (permalink)
Cathy31 1 bite&all resistance crumbles Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: IRELAND Posts: 1,886	This is very un AA like... Bugs I am going to answer your post in a very non AA way...i.e. not helpful but still wish to say it as your posts generally irritate me and this is just too much! 1) Are you sober, at all? 2) What is the quality of your sobriety? Judging by your posts and bitterness I'd hazard a guess to say : 1) answer is not; 2) answer is not Not that it's anything to do with me, I'm gratefully sober and usually quite serene LOL but your continual sniping and what it could do to a newcomer really grates me. I will pray for you. __________________ Sober since 22nd March 2006 by the Grace of God and the Programs & Fellowship of AA and NA Life is Beautiful! Fake it til you make it...

05-05-2008, 05:27 AM	#39 (permalink)
Cathy31 1 bite&all resistance crumbles Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: IRELAND Posts: 1,886	Bugsworth You are right I did act typically in the way a defensive cult member would act! I am sorry that was unkind of me...I guess because AA saved my life it's a huge trigger for me when I read what I see is unhelpful nonsensical rubbishing of AA. But you are entitled to your opinion. Well done on your sobriety - I too hate it when people masquerade 'the newcomer' for their own agenda, in this instance I really did mean it out of concern for the newcomer...I would be dead by now if not for AA...not only am I alive but a productive happy member of society and the human race. One of the points i think you (chose to?) miss was that a cult is not always a bad thing...if AA IS indeed proven to be a cult - that sobers you up and makes you a better person well I say bring it on. I'm sorry for my outburst...I have been irritated by various anti AA posts of yours, but I am not God (LOL) and you are absolutely entitled to share as you wish. Cathy31 x __________________ Sober since 22nd March 2006 by the Grace of God and the Programs & Fellowship of AA and NA Life is Beautiful! Fake it til you make it...

05-04-2008, 12:14 PM	#27 (permalink)
Barto Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Righthere, Rightnow Posts: 1,464	Obviously you don’t know much about alanon BBD. They don’t sacrifice goats, they sacrifice Alcoholics! LOL.

05-04-2008, 04:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
Zanthos Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 202	I wonder how members of other "cults" discuss whether they are part of a cult or not? Are they as reasonable as all of you?

05-04-2008, 09:04 PM	#32 (permalink)
Signal30 Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 983	Something to ponder... Most churches (Christian at least), wouldn't let AA have their meetings on their properties if the churches thought AA was a cult. Tom

05-05-2008, 04:42 AM	#35 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,192	Zanthos, You asked the question I wanted to ask...How many cult members sit around and discuss if they are in a cult? I found it odd the question was posed in the 12 step forum...what kind of answer did you expect? You speak about peoples negative comments regarding aa on that site, that is just the tip of the iceberg...there are many many sites dedicated to getting the word out that aa is a harmful "cult". A link to the orange papers was provided here...that link gives 100 cult characteristics which aa fits perfectly for almost all of them. If you don't like the orange papers you can google aa + cult...many other sites will provide information on this subject. If it was not "cult like" there would be no discussion. on another note...I was not going to post here in regards to this matter, but I just read your words of wisdom in the newcomers section regarding another members child....if that is the kind of person aa taught you to be, you may indeed be caught up in a dangerous cult. Google aa + deprograming...you need it.

05-05-2008, 05:17 AM	#37 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,192	Cathy...Your response is very typical from a member...you question my sobriety, then feign concern for the newcomer. No need to pray for me, but thanks for your concern. I am sober, have been for a little over 11 months...as far as quality, it seems you have already made that judgement call.

05-05-2008, 05:44 AM	#41 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,192	No worries Cathy...aa does work for many, but the fact remains many people do view aa as a cult...a harmful one at that. I have never once in all my post up until now called aa a cult...like Zanthos, I have read tons of evidence (testamonials) coupled with my own experience leads me to believe otherwise. Thank you for being openminded enough to let me share.

05-05-2008, 05:50 AM	#43 (permalink)
bugsworth Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,192	Zanthos, I am a woman first off...lol...my momma bear came out...you were talking about another human beings child. We all make mistakes...learn and grow from it. I have no doubt you are a good person, neither should you. One mis-spoken post is not the sum of who you are.

05-05-2008, 06:16 AM	#45 (permalink)
Tazman53 Follow Directions! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Fredericksburg, Va. Posts: 7,343	Zanthos my hat is off to you, many of us never say "Sorry", many of us are incapabale of seeing the harm our written word can cause. Sadly some of us view our own personal opinions so highly that we put them out there not caring that our personal opinions could kill someone seeking recovery by poisoning thier beleifs in different forms of recovery. At SR we are supposed to be here to help and support each other in our chosen method/methods of recovery, not to insinuate bad things about different methods of recovery. Many of us need to learn love and tolerance will always trump resentments and intolerance. __________________ All BB quotes are from the First Edition of the BB Follow directions! Sobriety date 18 Sept. 2006 Sober today thanks to AA

05-05-2008, 11:05 AM	#46 (permalink)
Barto Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Righthere, Rightnow Posts: 1,464	Zanthos, I think you hit the nail on the head. What other cult would even allow its members to discuss whether or not it was a cult? I don’t consider AA a “cult” using the commonly understood meaning of the word. But if it is under some technical definition, then I’m glad to be a member of a cult. On that note, is Sober Recovery a cult? Me thinks it is, technically.

05-05-2008, 11:24 AM	#47 (permalink)
stone Guru Stone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 12,389	AA doesnt want all your money and you are not required to sleep with the 'leader', so no it isnt a cult. __________________ . . There is the path of joy and there is the path of pleasure. Pondering on them, the wise (one) chooses the path of joy; the fool takes the path of pleasure. ~Katha Upanishad 1:2:1