Throw in an extra buck

[Rob B]

This post will likely be as popular as rain on the 4th of July, so be it.

Here's a consideration:
For everyone in an AA meeting that feels the need to Introduce themselves as "alcoholic and addict" could you throw in an extra dollar for your terminal uniqueness. It's a small price to pay for the ongoing violation of singleness of purpose.

[best]

How about one better then that?
If AA has helped you find a better way of life and a bigger paycheck...
Maybe put in a few bucks more to cover the past when you didn't have a buck to give.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Here's a consideration: For everyone in an AA meeting that feels the need to Introduce themselves as "alcoholic and addict" could you throw in an extra dollar for your terminal uniqueness. It's a small price to pay for the ongoing violation of singleness of purpose.

[ananda]

and all who think they are and alchoholic but not and addict can throw in an extra dollar for your terminal uniqueness. I don't feel terminally unique rob, do you?

[best]

Originally Posted by ananda

I don't feel terminally unique

Since finding a sober life, I don't feel terminal at all any more. *LOL*

[Sugah]

On a serious note (ha!), throw in an extra one anyway, especially at small meetings! Keeping in mind that the collection at a meeting not only pays for coffee and rent but it also supports AA as a whole (on the district, area & GSO level), a buck doesn't stretch very far. I once heard, as a guideline, toss in the price of a drink. Consider it an insurance payment against that first drink.

It amazes me how many people will buy the barkeeps wife a new fur coat but balk when the basket comes around.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Barto]

Originally Posted by best

Since finding a sober life, I don't feel terminal at all any more. *LOL*

Nice turn of phrase Best!

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by ananda

and all who think they are and alchoholic but not and addict can throw in an extra dollar for your terminal uniqueness. I don't feel terminally unique rob, do you?

A good question, I will answer it honestly. Yes, I do feel unique in most AA meetings, not better than, but different. I am a real alcoholic, the Big Book could be subtitled "what's wrong with Rob B." it describes me perfectly. I am a product of good sponsorship, I know that I don't keep myself sober, I understand that God has and continues to do for me what I can't do for myself.

I am greatly disheartened at the erosion of the program in most areas. I believe the double identification contributes to this. Sobriety freedom from alcohol is the sole purpose of AA. Other issues may be important, I'm not saying they aren't but they belong in another venue. The link below is a good resource.
Gresham's Law and Alcoholics Anonymous

[Barto]

Here are two more (different links with the same name):

Alcoholics Anonymous :
Alcoholics Anonymous :

[justanothrdrunk]

Few things...

If I'm understanding you Rob, my introducing myself as an addict and alcoholic is not unlike me introducing myself as a homeowner and an alcoholic or anything else. It's irrelevant, useless information. Or, do you feel the inclusion of the addict tag is actually harmful?

On terminal uniqueness...
If a large percentage of those in attendance at the meeting are also introducing themselves the same way, how is that unique? I'm not saying that it's okay if I do it because they do it. Right or wrong, how am I unique if I'm not alone?

And I'm not clear on how anyone including the fact that they are also a drug addict actually "violates" anything. Not saying you're wrong. I just don't get it. I like to think I have an understanding of the singleness of purpose. I may include while sharing from time to time that I'm married, have a son, or have athletes foot if I think it's relevant. It may or may not be. Am I violating the singleness of purpose by throwing out a few extra facts about myself that may help someone else understand my alcoholic experience better?

[yogurt75]

OK Rob - here is a hailstorm on the 4th....

Each group should be self-supporting through its own contributions declining outside funds.

If the MEMBERS (not visitors) of the group cannot financially support that group something is wrong with that group and a group inventory should be taken as to why the group is accepting outside money.

If I was not a member of your group (I didn't say AA as a whole), my contributions would be outside money. The group should be self-supporting through it's OWN contributions. I'm not talking at the regional level, district, or world service. EACH GROUP - OWN CONTRIBUTIONS

Let's say that a group had 20 members. Each of these members went to 3 meetings a week on average. Rather than throw in a buck at each of those 3 meetings, throw in a $5 note at your home group - the one you belong to, the one you are supposed to support through your contributions and don't throw in anything at the other meetings in accordance with AA Tradition of outside contributions at the group level. That would mean your home group would be averaging $100 per week in contributions FROM ITS OWN MEMBERS ONLY. It costs the member of that group $2 more per week than they would ordinarily contribute in total and the group would take in probably 3X what the group normally took in so maybe a little better brand of coffee or cookies could be purchased. Big Books could be purchased to give away free to newcomers and other benefits to the group as a whole simply by being self-supporting through your (group member) contributions.

Why should a group accept outside contributions by non-members? If a group cannot be self-supporting through ITS OWN CONTRIBUTIONS, maybe the members should take a look at that and question their committment to whenever anyone, anywhere reaches out, I want the hand of AA to be there and for that, I AM RESPONSIBLE. If you don't feel responsible for maintaining your home group and keeping it there for the person who staggers thru its doors seeking recovery are you really supporting AA's Traditions or the group you profess membership in?

[Rob B]

Thanks Yogurt, that wasn't the intent of my original post I was being more tongue and cheek, meaning folks would probably drop the additional identifier if it actually cost something, my feeble attempt at trying to get a point across, Although I understand where you are coming from about self support and the 4th tradition, I agree w/you.

I can't change groups, Only good sponsorship will remedy the current trend, an education applied to everyday living in all three parts of the circle and triangle. when I work with alcoholics who also happen to be drug addicts, I let them know that in AA they only need to identify as alcoholic. My primary purpose group format states we do not need to identify who we are or discuss issues other than alcoholism, it works well for us and eliminates all the outside issues.

[Freedom1990]

Originally Posted by justanothrdrunk

Few things...

If I'm understanding you Rob, my introducing myself as an addict and alcoholic is not unlike me introducing myself as a homeowner and an alcoholic or anything else. It's irrelevant, useless information. Or, do you feel the inclusion of the addict tag is actually harmful?

On terminal uniqueness...
If a large percentage of those in attendance at the meeting are also introducing themselves the same way, how is that unique? I'm not saying that it's okay if I do it because they do it. Right or wrong, how am I unique if I'm not alone?

And I'm not clear on how anyone including the fact that they are also a drug addict actually "violates" anything. Not saying you're wrong. I just don't get it. I like to think I have an understanding of the singleness of purpose. I may include while sharing from time to time that I'm married, have a son, or have athletes foot if I think it's relevant. It may or may not be. Am I violating the singleness of purpose by throwing out a few extra facts about myself that may help someone else understand my alcoholic experience better?

I'm not getting the correlation between how someone introduces themselves as dually addicted and contributions?

We have several dually addicted at our local AA group, and we always read the statement at the beginning of the meeting that we welcome dual dependents, but in keeping with the singleness of purpose, we ask that their sharing be limited to those things that relate to alcohol.

I don't get where being an alcoholic/addict qualifies me as being terminally unique either. Guess I need to go to school or something!

[ananda]

rob - what about the tradition that talks about AA not being a matter of conforming, or do you consider that not really AA since it is the 12x12?

[serenityqueen]

I personally do not understand why anyone would think twice if I introduce myself as an alcoholic and addict.

I introduce myself this way for a few reasons. I started out as "only an addict" for many years. I hated the taste of alcohol. I only forced myself develope a taste for a few different drinks in order to "fit in" at the bar. Within no time of hitting the bar every weekend, I "became an alcoholic" I began buying alcohol to "just have one after work" at home during the week. I don't need to go into detail on the rest, God and I know the end result.

I also introduce myself as an alcoholic and an addict so perhaps one "only an alcoholic" in the room will possibly think twice about the line or two they may occasionally be doing or the prescription for pain pills from the surgery long ago that has healed are now being used during stressful times.

There are also far more AA Meetings where I live than there are NA. I have been at AA meetings where a newcomer will very nervously clear their throat and swallow hard to barely choke out the words, My name is Bill and I'm an addict. And these newcomers have been told that this meeting is only for alcoholics.Try to imagine the feelings that go through this individual's mind. Feeling lost, desperate, like things are hopeless and they don't belong anywhere and finally getting the courage to go to a meeting and get help only to be told they don't belong THERE?

What kind of message is this sending? I remember several years ago when one young lady finally got the courage up to go to a meeting. During the introduction the above scenario took place. She stood up and through tears asked the group,"So what are you saying, come back when I AM an alcoholic?

I had never felt so alone and like everything was hopeless as I did when I walked out of that meeting that night. That young lady was me back in 1980.

God Bless,
Judy

[ananda]

FYI I wasn't being sarcastic....I really can't remember if Rob thinks like you do about the 12&12 or not. There are varying view points on that for people who work the 12 steps through AA.

I'm sorry that it came off that way Yogart. email doesn't always carry through the tone very well.

Thanks for sharing.

[yogurt75]

TY for letting me know that I misunderstood what you said. Sorry for that. I took the liberty to edit that sentence to remove the remark born from my error.

[bballdad]

Rob

no where in the steps,traditions,or concepts does it say anything that I can find(so far) as to how we are to identify ourselves.
It does say each group is autonomous and if my home group says it is ok for me to say I`m Tommy and I hate frigging kangeroo`s,I`m a allkie,and I want to help another alkie get sober,then it`s perfectly ok.

No one,and that includes everyone, has the right to tell me how I am going to identify myself in a meeting but my conscience and home group.
I must respect the other groups rights to do the same.

There is no set standard "law" or "rules" concerning identification except those set by fear or big book extremists.
Rob,that is a common problem I see in big book thumpers,too much rigidity......and that makes for a tough time sometimes.

search out the traditions,steps and concepts and see if you can find where it says,I must say,I`m Tommy and I am a alcoholic

[Rob B]

Introduce yourself however you want, this is an area of my life where I am powerless, my entire point in this post was an attempt to raise awareness that this seemingly trivial stuff erodes the core of AA over time. Have any of you ever seen a glacier recede? to watch it with the naked eye, no change is detectable, using time lapse photography a substantial shift becomes readily apparent, this is happening in AA.

Yeah I am rigid, not as rigid as a bottle of whiskey though. It has been said in this post already, If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything, live and let live does not mean fall into apathetic silence.

Please Know that none of my posts are meant to be personal.
You guys do what you think you need to do, and I'll keep going and doing where the spirit guides me, it's a realm of the spirit thing.

[bob_sapp]

What about people who won't even say they are an alcoholic? IE: "My name is X and I'm grateful to be sober" Some people just want to be different. I did drugs and they got me a lot closer to death and prison than alcohol alone did, but that's just because I got sober at 22. I call myself an alkie because I can't stop drinking, I honestly have not had a problem with drugs for years. I don't know why it works like that, but it did for me. I don't really care what people say... I listen to the same people talk for 5 minutes about their dead child, their history of sexual abuse, or why they are justified to be in self pity and live in a way that is not conducive to serenity almost every week. I will observe and reach my own conclusions, but I don't tell anyone what they can and cannot say. Maybe that's the culture of liberalism and post-modernism that we live in, but sometimes I learn more from seeing people who are not where I want to be who break our singleness of purpose, than from people who adhere to it but don't offer any new insight.

[bballdad]

in 1987,there was more of the alcoholic addict stuff going on around where I live than there is now.My home group had to have a group conscience meeting in 1987 because of it(some friends of mine and myself was causing the controversie) and they voted on the issue,the result was it was ok by them if you said you was a alcoholic and a addict.I have noticed since then it has declined over the years.Very few times do we hear alcoholic and a anything anymore.All the troublemakers(myself included) have dropped the alcoholic and a ...over the years as we grew in soberiety.

[Tazman53]

Well I am sure for singleness of purpose in AA, there is a distinct line that I see between alcoholism and drug addiction, if any one would like to hear the difference ask and I will share it.

Now let me throw this piece of feces on the table and see who wishes to smack it!

Wednesday night at my home group a gentleman I had never seen before came in just before the meeting started and sat down. He had the look of a newbie, he looked as though he had his arse whipped really good and then put on a platter and handed to him. When the lead asked any new comers to AA to introduce them selfs by thier first name I expected to learn this gentlemans name...... he said nothing, basically stared at the table in front of him.

When the chips were being given out I was expecting him to pick up a 24 hour chip thinking maybe he was a retread, he continued to stare at the table..... Well we had our topic "Why are you here?" and we went around the table.

His tur