Religion vs. Sprituality?

[BudgetPlan1]

Greetings,

Just started on the sobriety thing (28 days); beginning to explore AA, have been reading the Big Book and the steps and one thing I am unsure of at this moment is the differing aspects of religion vs. spirituality. Kind of "How do you view the difference between the two?".

Is religion just a collection of rites and rituals in a physical sense and spirituality is one's interpretation and personal sense of religion? Do you need religion to maintain spirituality or vice versa? Man, w/ an unclouded head, I sure have more time to think about this stuff. Yikes.

At a recent AA meeting the lead said "I grew up w/ religion but I never knew spirituality" which, I guess is kinda where I am now.

Just kinda curious as to others thoughts on this topic.

Thanks for any insights you may have.

[laurie6781]

Hey Budget, welcome to SR. You have found a great place to share your own ES&H and hear others!!!

Well, lets see. Back in the 'old days', rofl when I got sober AA was the only game in town, thus I was in a sink or swim situation. There was no internet either. Yeah I know, I'm ancient, lmao.

I had left organized religion (the Catholic church) when I was 14 and up to and into sobriety I had nothing to do with organized religion and didn't want to start. So...........I had to try and figure out just exactly what that Big Book meant when it talked about 'spirituality. I did a lot of reading about the history of AA. Came to realize, that yes, it had been founded on "Christian Concept" of God, however, in their infinite wisdom, when it came time to write the book, they seemed to realize that there would be folks that didn't have a "Christian God" and some that might not have any at all.

Thus we see the phrases "power greater than ourselves" and "God as we understood him."

So...................after getting that part of it, it was on to more reading (man I made a lot of trips to the library, lol). After working the steps, then learning how to LIVE the steps, and more reading, I came to discover for ME, that living is 'spiritual way of life" is simply this:

Just for today, to the BEST of my ability today, I practice thoughtfulness, kindness and consideration to ALL who cross my path and treat all as I would like to be treated.

I know sounds easy, but let me tell you some days are better than others. However, when I go to bed at night if I can 'honestly' look at my day and see that I did the best I could for that day, then yes I was living a 'spiritual' way of life.

I have to keep it simple even now, after many many ODAATs. After getting it down to that one sentence, I realized that in that sentence I had the 12 Steps, the 10 Commandments, and the Golden Rule.

I believe one of the biggest helpers for me to understand the difference between organized religion and spirituality was receiving Emmett Fox's book "Sermon On The Mount." It truly opened my mind and my heart and put into words my personal differences with organized religion.

Many in AA today use a 'religion' in addition to the 12 steps. I personally went to the 'deep dark secret' in my family history and went back to my Native American Heritage. That works for me. Is it a religion? Probably according to some. The NA ways have come down over thousands of years also, teaching respect for the earth and all it gives us and in the process respect for each other.

Spirituality to me is how I treat myself and how I treat others. Right down to the mundane things liking holding a door for someone, letting those with a few items get in line ahead of me at the checkout, letting someone into traffic. Giving a smile instead of a frown. All the 'little' things. Living the "Principals" of the steps:

THE PRINCIPLES ARE THE STEPS


1. HONESTY
2. HOPE
3. FAITH
4. COURAGE
5. INTEGRITY
6. WILLINGNESS
7. HUMILITY
8. BROTHERLY LOVE
9. JUSTICE
10. PERSEVERANCE
11. SPIRITUAL AWAKENING
12. SERVICE

All of the above come into play daily for this alkie.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[Barto]

Well, one definition of religion is anything done on a regular basis; He arrives at work religiously at 5:00 a.m.

However, I believe we are talking about organized religion, where there is an often dogmatic (but not always) belief in a particular God, and a set of specific laws to live by.

In AA we are allowed to choose a “God of our own understanding” or a “Higher Power.” Some don’t even call their Higher Power God. Some call their Higher Power: Universal Law, The Spirit of the Universe or of Mankind, or The Power of their AA group (this is especially true of some beginning sobriety who do not like the God word).

I think that we approach spirituality from a practical stand point; our aim is to be of service to everyone and oppose no one. This is not to say that religious people aren’t spiritual. I think many are. This is a deep and heavy topic, and I think spirituality can be manifest in many forms.

I think the bottom line for us to seek a spiritual way of life by cleaning up our side of the street (facing and rectifying the wrongs we have done others), and then to be of service to others – especially our respective families and other alcoholics.

There may be some literature on spirituality, but I’m uncertain.

[Barto]

She posted while I was writing my reply. LOL.

[CarolD]

My religion is the church I belong to.
My spirituality belongs to me.

Glad to see you again...BP...

[Rob B]

AA can be as religious or as non religious as the individual decides. There is often a rather pointless debate on this forum as to whether or not AA is religious.

Point Blank: it is not. True, It does have beginning roots in Christianity. However, the key phrase that opens up the doors completely is a God of your understanding. Doesn't have to be my God, or Bill Wilson's God. A simple belief in something beyond yourself is all that is required to make a beginning. Our preamble also makes clear that we are not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution. Pretty straight forward.

THe realm of the spirit is broad, roomy and all inclusive to those who seek. Working the steps was the path that led me to this world, come on in if you like.

[BudgetPlan1]

Wow, good stuff...and quick too. Just drinking it all in (OK, maybe that wasn't the right choice of words)

[Freedom1990]

Religion is man-made.

Spirituality is God-given.

I practice spirituality in my daily life.

I haven't been able to reconcile my spirituality with any organized religion, and I'm okay with that

[miss communicat]

not much difference between religion and spirituality according to Merriam Webster, :

1.re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
1 b: the service and worship of God or the supernatural

2: commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 a: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith


2. spir·i·tu·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: \ˌspir-i-chə-ˈwa-lə-tē\
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
1 : something that in ecclesiastical law belongs to the church or to a cleric as such
2 : clergy
3 : sensitivity or attachment to religious values
4 : the quality or state of being spiritual

3. spir·i·tu·al
Pronunciation: \ˈspir-i-chə-wəl, -i-chəl, -ich-wəl\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French & Late Latin; Anglo-French espirital, spiritual, from Late Latin spiritualis, from Latin, of breathing, of wind, from spiritus
Date: 14th century

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal
2a: of or relating to sacred matters
2b: ecclesiastical rather than lay or temporal
3: concerned with religious values
4: related or joined in spirit
5 a: of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena
5 b: of, relating to, or involving spiritualism

[Barto]

I borrow a little sugar, steal a little salt, add a pinch of baking soda ... and whalla’ I bakey cakey.

spirituality

4 : the quality or state of being spiritual

spiritual

1: of, relating to, consisting of, or affecting the spirit : incorporeal

Incorporeal

1. not corporeal or material; insubstantial.
2. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of nonmaterial beings.

Loving my fellow man (and woman too) in my actions.

[best]

My personal relationship with God is where I find spirituality.
I happen to be a member of an organized church and that can be seen as religion.

In my opinion..
Religion is man made rules that different groups follow as they express their spirituality. The church I belong to as a member happens to believe the same way I do and for that reason I support their efforts of sharing the message of hope from God.

Spirituality is God given and by God reaching down to me then my acceptance of His desire to have a personal relationship with me... the spiritual door was opened. My personal..."one on one" relationship with the Lord is what gives me my spiritual life.

Church is not the building but it is the gathering of like minded individuals sharing their spirituality with one another. A message of hope.

[Gutterdrunk]

Originally Posted by CarolD

My religion is the church I belong to.
My spirituality belongs to me.

That sums it up for me. I got to church today BECAUSE God is on my heart everyday, not to find God or to be with God. What AA gives me I couldn't find in my church, and visa versa.

AA and any religion don't mix, IMO. Like was posted earlier, the program, prayers etc... were founded by Christian people taken from the Bible etc... They are our traditions and the traditions say to find a God of your understanding and tell us to take what we want and leave the rest.

Be content in today
Be OK with not having all of the answers just yet

You will find what you need to maintain sobriety if you ernestly seek it.

and congrats on 28 days.

[Peter]

Man invented religion as a way of understanding and explaining the world he lived in and as a way of maintaining a society. It often has a tendency to be unique to different regions and cultures.

Spirituality on the other hand are the never changing laws of Faith, Hope, Forgiveness . Courage, Honesty, Charity Acceptance, Tolerance et al, that are Universally understood and recognized by all peoples.

[sugErspun]

So what is the difference between religion and religious? Other than the obvious noun vs adjective...

[Sheryl85]

I like my dictionary’s* definitions better:

religion n 2 Any system of faith and worship: the Christian religion. 3 An essential part or a practical test of the spiritual life.

spiritual adj. 2 Pertaining to or affecting the immaterial nature or soul of man. 3 Of or pertaining to God, his Spirit, or his law, or to the soul as acted upon by the Holy Spirit; holy; pure; not carnal.

It is true that there are other definitions listed that do make both words hardly distinguishable from one another. Somehow I think that the ones that I listed above are more in keeping with the spirit of what the books are talking about and definitely more in keeping with what I believe in. My religion, whatever that may be, is something that is my system of faith and worship. My spiritual life does not require the same rituals (Sunday services) and trappings (within the confines of a building and putting on my Sunday best) that I might employ for my religious observations. I can feel the spirituality and closeness with my Maker by standing on Serenity Point in Whitney or surveying nature’s beauty from the back of a Harley. (Depending upon who the driver was during those latter excursions, I’ve also been known to engage in intense spiritual dialogue with the Almighty, if you catch my drift…I still feel I’m too young to die!)

Anyway, this is one person’s observation on it all, for what it’s worth…

*Funk & Wagnalls New Comprehensive International Dictionary of the English Language.

[Pinkcuda]

All Religions are based on an "Afterlife" Spirituality is not. It deals with Right Now.

[nandm]

I had to laugh when I saw the title to this thread as one of my pet peeves is people trying to tell me that AA is religious. I have a lot of work to do around this topic as I can if I am not careful find myself becoming angry, impatient, or resentful when discussing it so I am going to state my peace and leave it at that. Then continue to work on my issues around religion.

My experience is AA is not about religion. I grew up in a strict Southern Baptist home. We were at church at least 3 times a week and many times more than that. My father was a deacon and my mother a church secretary. Every year we were sent to church camp. We were not given the option of not going to church. We went no matter what when we lived in my parents home. The church was a fire and brimestone church. If you did not believe exactly the way the preacher said you should believe then you were going to burn in hell for eternity. If you were not perfect you were going to burn in hell for eternity. If you didn't accept Jesus into your heart and walk down the aisle and be baptised you were going to burn in hell. So much of it was about "thou shalt not" rather than here is what you can do, here is how to live a good life, here is how to be happy and useful. Then on top of that although we were forced to put on the perfect little family face for church and all the church people, my father was a pedophile. When I tried to talk to someone in the church about it I was made out to be a vindictive, liar, just seeking attention. Needless to say I did not talk about it to anyone for many years after that. So my perception and experince with religion is not exactly what one could consider a positive experience.

Now for spirituality. Spirituality allows me to determine my own perception of a Higher Power, no one dictates to me what that looks like, acts like, etc... I also do not have to worry about eternal damnation if that is something I choose not to have a part of my spirituality. My spirituality is based on "thou shalts", such as the 12 Steps and 12 Principles which are an excellent spiritual outline when utilized. My spirituality is between me and my Higher Power, I don't have to explain it to anyone. I don't have to try and convert anyone to believe in my Higher Power. I don't have to preach at anyone about my spiritual beliefs. I don't have to feel superior to anyone because of my spiritual beliefs. Spirituality encourages me to accept the differences in each of us and see that as a blessing rather than a curse. I have freedom and faith with spirituality. It is based on my perception and trust in a Higher Power rather than what a preacher tells me God looks like and what I have to do to have that God accept me. My Higher Power loves me warts and all, I don't have to be perfect, I can make mistakes, I can be human.

So there is my take on the subject. I have enjoyed reading everyone's responses.

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by Sheryl85

I like my dictionary’s* definitions better:

religion n 2 Any system of faith and worship: the Christian religion. 3 An essential part or a practical test of the spiritual life.

spiritual adj. 2 Pertaining to or affecting the immaterial nature or soul of man. 3 Of or pertaining to God, his Spirit, or his law, or to the soul as acted upon by the Holy Spirit; holy; pure; not carnal.

It is true that there are other definitions listed that do make both words hardly distinguishable from one another. Somehow I think that the ones that I listed above are more in keeping with the spirit of what the books are talking about and definitely more in keeping with what I believe in. My religion, whatever that may be, is something that is my system of faith and worship. My spiritual life does not require the same rituals (Sunday services) and trappings (within the confines of a building and putting on my Sunday best) that I might employ for my religious observations. I can feel the spirituality and closeness with my Maker by standing on Serenity Point in Whitney or surveying nature’s beauty from the back of a Harley. (Depending upon who the driver was during those latter excursions, I’ve also been known to engage in intense spiritual dialogue with the Almighty, if you catch my drift…I still feel I’m too young to die!)

Anyway, this is one person’s observation on it all, for what it’s worth…

*Funk & Wagnalls New Comprehensive International Dictionary of the English Language.

I agree. I like your dictionary better than Merriam Webster too. I was actually quite nonplussed with the definitions I'd found.

[Lily]

Originally Posted by best

My personal relationship with God is where I find spirituality.
I happen to be a member of an organized church and that can be seen as religion.

In my opinion..
Religion is man made rules that different groups follow as they express their spirituality. The church I belong to as a member happens to believe the same way I do and for that reason I support their efforts of sharing the message of hope from God.

Spirituality is God given and by God reaching down to me then my acceptance of His desire to have a personal relationship with me... the spiritual door was opened. My personal..."one on one" relationship with the Lord is what gives me my spiritual life.

Church is not the building but it is the gathering of like minded individuals sharing their spirituality with one another. A message of hope.

Spot on Best!

Sheila

[Signal30]

What's important is your relationship with your Higher Power. Coming to beleive in a Power Greater than yourself is a personal thing.

You do not have to tack on a religion to your Higher Power. As many have stated, religion is man made, as is many of their rules and politics.

Keep it simple. Seperate what man has told you who God is, and focus more on your relationship with God, the God of your understanding. Don't mix the opinions of others about God to complicate things. Brow beating who or what God is can complicate your own faith towards your Higher Power.


Tom