You ask what step I'm on

[LegalLady]

Some have asked what step I'm on
Step three
Its a hard one for me. Not because I don't believe in God. but cause I have a hard time believing in him for me. That's dumb I know. I'm working with that.
I've been to meetings everyday, some times twice and also Alanon meetings because my father was an alcoholic (he is dead). its been like 45 or 46 days or something. so I go every day or sometimes twice, and I call my sponsor at least three times a week and see her at meetings. But, I don't feel nothing, still empty.
and I find myself listening to people, mostly the new comers and thinking they are full of it.
I think I should listen to the people with some sobriety under their belt and let the people with the sobriety under their belt listen to the newcomers.
I don't know. I'm just sick of people getting his spiritual awaking after 10 days and I'm struggling at 40 something. I'm going everyday, and reading and writing and spilling my guts. I'm getting nothing but well, I'll just say it. Ticked off. I think I'm a jerk and I don't want to be. Some one said today if everything goes my way I'm having a good day and if everything don't go my way and I don't drink, I'm having a great day. Well if that's true, I'm having some GREAT Days.
I feel like such a sack of potatos.

[RufusACanal]

I am routing for you everyday. Please remember, by your good work you are helping many folks here simply by your honesty and courage. Proud of you!

[Tazman53]

In the promises after step 9 it says that for some it comes slowly and for others quickly, but it will come for everyone who works for it.

LL I know right now this may seem an impossible task, but keep doing what you are doing in regards to meetings and keeping in touch with you sponsor, but just try to relax, find a place that is quiet and you feel safe and simply sit down and relax, focus on what is good in your life today, being sober is one of the things to be thankful for, another is simply being alive, add to that you have a a place that is quiet and you feel safe.

Slowly say the serenity prayer, but do more then just say it, take it apart and use it in your life at this moment, because this very moment is where you are at and is where you will always be, you can not exist in the past, as a result just accept the past for what it was, the future will remain in the future, simply accept that.

Focus in on the good around you, it can be found if you look for it, there is good in all of us, God does not waste his time, he does not make junk, each of us has a purpose he wishes us to serve if we will allow him to guide us.

A spiritual awakening in 10 days!!!!! I had mine some time after I had worked step 5 with my sponsor and even then it was simply a beginning, I know a few folks who had the obsession to drink lifted in no time, but very few, most folks I know did not have the obsession lifted until they were well into the steps and some that completed the steps and still had a minor obsession that dissappeared with time.

For most people, myself included a spiritual awakening is not a burning bush, nor a flash of light, it is a slow gradual awakening like waking up from a very long hard sleep.

[sailorjohn]

Originally Posted by LegalLady

Some have asked what step I'm on
Step three
Its a hard one for me. Not because I don't believe in God. but cause I have a hard time believing in him for me. That's dumb I know. I'm working with that.

Myself, I think my lack of trust in a hp dates back to childhood, the nuns explained the concept of free will regarding how a loving God could allow such suffering in the world, still hard for a suffering child to grasp that idea and internalize it.

I try not to compare my progress or lack of with that of anyone else, and you already have half the equation. God, your hp, does control the universe, so your fate is ultimately in he/she/it's hands. The other half, I strive to do the "next right thing".

[laurie6781]

I cannot tell you what to do. I can only tell you what worked for me.

Of course, with Step 1, I had to chew on that one. Had to figure out with a lot of help from My Sponsor, how to get to the very core of my being, with no reservations, that I was Powerless over Alcohol. That Alcohol had become my master, and that when I drank my life turned to chit and was totally unmanageable. That took a bit of time. I realized that my recovery needed to be built on a foundation of concrete, not sand, so.....Step 1 had to be FIRM in my heart and mind.

Now step two actually was harder. First, with help from my sponsor, I came to understand that it was a Power Greater Than Myself. Wasn't sure what that power was yet. And the step didn't say "would" be restored to sanity, it said "COULD" be restored to sanity. Okay, well what was Sanity? In order to understand that, I looked up the word "Insanity" to find one of the definitions jump right out at me:

Insanity...........................the repetition of the same Acts or Actions EXPECTING different result.

Hmmmmm now that I could relate to. After all I had been doing the same thing over and over and over for 24 years and the results had always been the same. Slowly, as I continued to attend meetings and saw others grow and change I realized that yes being restored if not to full sanity but some semblance there of was possible. Ok, I could believe that I could be restored to sanity........................eventually, lol

Then I hit Step 3. First I have to tell you that I had left 'organized religion' at the age of 14 and I was now 36. My whole first year of sobriety I used a Harley Davidson (I know sounds and is funny now many years later, but I was DEAD SERIOUS then) for my HP. Well that did have a bit of a tendancy to confuse me, about Making A DECISION, to turn my will and life over to the care of God as I understood him.

So, while going to lots of meetings and watching and listening and NOT feeling a 'part of' but at least feeling SAFE in the meetings, that first year, I also started my "Search" for a "God of My Understanding" for ME. I read everything I could get my hands on (spent lots of time at the library, there was no internet yet) and in the process maybe confused myself more at first, however, finally for me, starting looking at a part of my Heritage that had been "The Family Secret" for as long as I could remember. I went to the Native Americans, to the Elders, and said 'please teach me.' They did. Over many many years now.

What I finally started to understand for me about Step 3 was that in making the DECISION to turn my will and life over, I was making the commitment to One Day At A Time, be the Best ME I could be that day and to do "The Next 'Right' thing in all I said and did for the day." Now at 'doing the next right thing' I was certainly a Novice. Big Time. There again, I used my Sponsor, Her Husband, and others I was starting to trust a teeny bit. You see I had drank since the age of 12 and alcoholically since about 16, so I knew my 'thinking skills', my 'actions', my 'reasoning', all were extremely juvenile and I needed GUIDANCE, lots of GUIDANCE.

I didn't call my sponsor 2 or 3 times a week, I was her PITA (Pain In The Azz). I called her daily, sometimes several times a day, and was at her house several times a week. My sponsor and her hubby over the years played many roles in my life. Parents, siblings, devil's advocate, and my dearest and best friends ever. Slowly, over that first year I learned how to make decisions, about my life, about my day, and in that process learned to do the "next 'right' or 'correct' thing of the moment.

I said all of the above, because I am not sure you are at Step 3. Only you know that, and at 40 some days sober, I don't believe you are really 'thinking' at all clearly yet. My mind seemed to remain partly "MUSH" to almost 6 months. It also sounds to me like you are putting 'other peoples progress' on yourself, comparing yourself to others.

We all grow at our OWN PACE in Recovery and no two of us are alike. Talk to your Sponsor about taking YOUR EXPECTATIONS off of YOU. The questions you are posting here are great, and all any of us can do is tell you what we did. However, your Sponsor, who is slowly getting to 'know' you can be extremely helpful in these early days and months.

Please also get phone numbers, lots of phone numbers, and use them. There will be many times when your Sponsor will be unavailable, and then those numbers will really come in handy. As you talk with others, one on one, you will find many who feel or have felt as you do now.

LL it does get better. Go early to meetings and help set up, it's much easier to talk one on one with someone, when there are only a few there. Stay late and help clean up, again easier to talk to another. Ask someone to go 'to coffee' after the meeting. When others find out you are willing to go, you will become the Invitee instead of the Inviter, lol

Each time I put my hand out, just a teeny bit, someone (99.99999% of the time female) grabbed it, thus it got easier.

So.....................stop comparing, please. You are doing great. As to "feeling like such a sack of potatos" well yeah. I don't remember anyone telling me that when I stopped drinking life would become WONDERFUL. roflmao and I am very thankful that no one did.

Recovery is an ongoing process. Its much more than just meetings. Meetings are the 'fellowship' and some go to 'impress' and some go to feel 'safe' and some go to learn 'more about recovery.' Try doing some things for you............................something you like to do, or stopped doing a long time ago, when the booze took over. Be it knitting, reading, ice skating, roller skating, volunteering at the Animal shelter, something YOU ENJOY.

It is time to be Nice to You! In the process of doing that, some other things in your life will start to fall into place.

J M H O

I apologize for being so wordy..............................your post just brought back a lot of my own early memories.

Please feel free to PM me any time.

Love and hugs,

[Sheryl85]

A friend of mine was in the same place you are right now. One day he was talking with his brother (who had a bit more time in the program than my friend at that moment) and was lamenting over the struggle he was having with the “God” thing. His brother asked my friend if he doubted his faith. When he replied that he was, my friend’s brother told him, “If you doubt your faith, at least you have some faith to doubt.”

LL, the spiritual journey has a beginning and no end…you can take it as far as you want. The moral of my friend’s story was that any place you start on the journey, no matter how small or slight the faith might be at the time, is a good place to start. There are many people out there that probably wish they were doing as well as you because I can see that you are not starting at ground level zero. Where you are right now at 40 something days is right where you are supposed to be. Keep doing what you are doing. Each day you wake up you’ve just added another page to your brand new past. And once you get over this “hump” in the road, think of all the help and comfort you can give someone else when they find themselves at that same place.

Bloom where you are planted, my dear.

[Barto]

After near a couple of decades of sobriety, I am going back through the steps again (which I do periodically). And I too am at Step Three. I have been reading over this step on pages 62 and 63, studying these pages, and trying to recall all the times that someone has harmed me, or those times that I got pissed off because things didn’t work out the way I thought they should – my way! What I actually find is that, invariably, I made some decision based on self that put me in this position that later caused the particular hurt – just like the book says. (I assume you are reading pages 62 through 63 now and that you know what I am talking about.)

Taken properly, Step Three is no easy step. It may be mechanically simple, but it is not so easy for many of us. The book says “we thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready, that we could at last abandon ourselves…” So, here I sit, having recalled these times that I have been seriously hurt and having recalled all these decisions based on self that put me in the positions to be hurt; I can see specifically where, out of selfishness, I set myself up to be hurt! (BTW, I could not even see my faults in the beginning, practically none anyway. Thank God for sponsors who help us with these steps.) Anyway, is this factual information – that of myself I am self destructive – enough for me to take the plunge? Is this enough reality, enough logic? No! LOL. I am now looking at the alternative to taking this step – in the spirit of being ready, seriously.

So, I am now looking at what would likely happen if I don’t take this step; what would happen if I reverted to self-will. That’s where I am right now. My instinct is to write that I would most likely wind up in the same place I was when I was under the delusion that I had control. I would be back at bottom, bankrupt in almost everyway!

I intended to write a short reply, but, probably because I am in the middle of this step myself and have a lot of stuff on my mind, I’ve written too much and maybe a little too scattered. I have more to say on the subject, but I’ll hold it for now, except to say:

I don’t know whether any of this will help you. It’d be nice if it did. But your thread forced me to write (even more than I posted) and it has helped me! I'm certain that’s a big part of how it works. Thank you!

[NoelleR]

You've gotten a lot of great suggestions here.....especially Laurie, long tho it might be.....very good stuff.....

One thing you wrote caught my eye....: "...I'm just sick of people getting his spiritual awaking after 10 days and I'm struggling at 40 something..." --- I saw a lot of those folks too; some of them stayed their course and are still sober, but many of them fell off their pink cloud, slipped/relapsed, some of them never to return to recovery, some of them died...... )o:

I was there too, for a while, but then I was an atheist trying to work an AA program in a little corner of the bible belt....lol I actually found another atheist here and asked her to be my sponsor.....and she pointed out some interesting things to me.....

The first thing I'd like to say is (what was said to me).....and I believe others on here have said it too, but it can't be said enough.....STOP comparing yourself to others......espcially DON'T compare your insides to others outsides.

The second thing I'd like to say is.....I was reminded of what the 12th Step says, in part ....: "...Having had a spiritual awakening as THE result of THESE STEPS..." --- to me that says that all the steps are a process gettin us to this 'spiritual awakening' (whatever that may mean to each one of us).

For me, I worked the steps as they are written, NOT necessarily as anyone else may have worked them.....including the founders. I know that many folks feel it necessary to define their HP in Step 2 and also necessary to turn their will and their life over to the care of the God of their understanding in Step 3, but I way prefer to just read and do the steps as written.....:

In Step 2 I admitted that perhaps there was a power greater than I was at that moment....and I could be restored to sanity (later I realized that HP was the 'me' of tomorrow as long as I didn't drink/use today).

...for me Step 3 was oh so simple.....and easy too. I simply said 'OK' I'd turn my will and my life over to whoever's (whomever's?) care, whenever I figured out who whoever/whomever was (lol). Remember, Step 3 simply states to 'make a decision' NOT necessarily to 'do the do' at that moment.

With those 'humps' outta the way, in moments, I was onto Step 4 (the fear of this step, I feel, may be a factor in why some folks have such a problem with Step 3...?...just a thought).....and on and on and on, thru twelve, over and over again.....ad infinitum

I hope this helped a wee bit....or at least didn't confuse.....welcome to the road of happy destiny..... (o:


NoelleR

[Jfanagle]

I never have had a "spiritual awakening" I have had several "moments of clarity" regarding various parts of my life as I have "trudged" the road of sobriety.

I have spent some 3000 plus days sober and some times I am "ticked off" at how others have embraced the program so quickly and fully while it has come in bits and pieces to me.

However, in the morning I look at the mirror and I like the guy who looks back, he may not have seen the "burning bush", but then again, he hasn't seen the floor in a bar for a very long time either.

I suppose I will still keep coming back, no matter what. Hope you will join me LegalLady.

Jon

[Barto]

I’ve really enjoyed some of your previous posts, but I think I may be misunderstanding what you mean to write in your last post. If so, please forgive my ignorance.

Originally Posted by NoelleR

… I worked the steps as they are written …” “I way prefer to just read and do the steps as written...”

Originally Posted by NoelleR

Step 2: “I admitted that perhaps there was a power greater than I was at that moment....and I could be restored to sanity…”

Where is Step 2 written this way?

Originally Posted by NoelleR

Step 3: “I simply said 'OK' I'd turn my will and my life over to whoever's (whomever's?) care, whenever I figured out who whoever/whomever was …

Where is Step 3 written this way?

Originally Posted by NoelleR

Remember, Step 3 simply states to 'make a decision' NOT necessarily to 'do the do' at that moment.

What do you think about the Big Book pages that immediately follow “The Steps” in Chapter 5, specifically page 63 where the book explains how to take Step 3 just before going on to Step 4?

Remember Rule 62 now.

Thanks.

[Barto]

Originally Posted by Jfanagle

I never have had a "spiritual awakening" I have had several "moments of clarity" regarding various parts of my life …

Hey Jon,

LL made me write, now you’re making me read (Appendices II “Spiritual Experience”). LOL. What is the difference between a spiritual awakening [of the educational variety] and having several moments of clarity regarding various parts of your life?

[NoelleR]

OK Barto, let me see if I can answer your questions.....

On page 59, Step 2 simply says: "Came to believe,..." "...power greater than,.." --- nowhere in the STEP does it tell me to define that power, just to come to believe that there is a power and that it could (not would) restore me to sanity.....

One that same page, Step 3 simply states: "Made a decision..." "turn...will and ...lives over..." --- nowhere in that STEP does it say that I need to do so...at least not at this point.....or ever, for that matter

"...What do you think about the Big Book pages that immediately follow “The Steps” in Chapter 5, specifically page 63 where the book explains how to take Step 3 just before going on to Step 4?..."

What do I think about that....? I think that's how the founders worked that step, but I don't read it as the one and only way to work that step; if that were the case, I feel it would have been written that way.....ie: "We turned our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him."

I know many folks believe The Program is in the first 164 pages of the BB -- some even going so far as stating that these are the instructions for working the steps. For me The Program is only on pages 59-60 (The Steps, which were, after all, suggested as A program of recovery); all the surrounding pages is just the founders, etc. opinions (as in the doctor's opinion, or other's opinion regarding alcoholism, etc.) and their ES&H on working the steps (kinda like step-study meetings, except w/o the f2f).

I dunno....I used my sponsor, my intelligence, my dictionary.....read the steps, figured out what they said (to me, anyway), and worked them as I saw they were to be worked (again, for me).....Well, it worked, and is still working, coming up on 22 years this coming June, so I must be doing something right.......for me, at least. --- I love the saying (totally paraphrased here)....your way of working the program might (probly would) get me drunk, and my way of working the program might (probly would) get you drunk.....what works for some may work for some, but probably won't work for all.....

I hope this answers your questions..... (o:


NoelleR

P.S. "...Remember Rule 62 now..." ??? Were you thinking I might be put off by some of your questions.....? Nah....I love explaining how I've worked the steps.....perhaps not how anybody else may have worked them, but what the hey; I was not getting them sober.....only moi.... (o:

[GlassPrisoner]

Originally Posted by Barto

Hey Jon,

LL made me write, now you’re making me read (Appendices II “Spiritual Experience”). LOL. What is the difference between a spiritual awakening [of the educational variety] and having several moments of clarity regarding variousparts of your life?

My Spiritual Awakening is exactly as described on page 567. That is, "A personality change sufficient to recover from alcoholism...."

Just for kicks, count the number of times the word "change" (or it's derivatives) is mentioned on pgs 567-568...

[Jfanagle]

Barto,

I have had many and somewhat varied "glimpses" of those parts of my life that I had lost in my drinking and my self absorbed behavior during my alcohol abuse. In other words, I have slowly returned to the sanity that we so often talk about in AA.

The "forced" reading that my comments caused you in Appendices II “Spiritual Experience" makes reference to the fact that we are all not visited with a spiritual epiphany that makes clear our path of recovery. I guess this is what I mean when I use the term “moments of clarity” perhaps in that I am "hard headed" and was very slow to settle upon a spiritual view of AA. Ultimately I have found a God and my concept of a higher power will most likely differ from many other's, but it has worked for me. My "understanding" of ANY higher power was a long time in coming, but I was determined not to relapse and with the help of so many wonderful folks in AA I have not yet!

Therefore; the "moments of clarity" have been snapshots of a spiritual support that I was slow to grasp. Are these less valuable because of their incremental nature as opposed to a broad and vast realization of God as one understands God? I can't say, but I am sober and life is good, so I guess they were JUST ENOUGH for me.

I hope I didn't make the answer more difficult than your question intended.

Thanks for asking,

Jon

[Barto]

Glass, it seems your definition of spiritual experience and JFangle’s are pretty much the same. Whatta’ you know.

JF, it was kind of a trick question. I was pretty sure I knew the answer, but I reread “Spiritual Experience” on page 567 anyway. I think you have had a spiritual awakening of the education variety – as have most of us.

[Barto]

Noelle, I thought you might be offended, but I’m glad you weren't. I’m still not certain that my book reads the same as yours, though. Mine reads:

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over the care of God as we understood Him.

I guess what was unclear to me in your first post was that it appeared that you were adamant about taking the Steps exactly as they were written, but then I saw that you tweaked them to work for you.

So you don’t like Bill’s explanation of what he really means when he says “Made a decision…” Curious. I always thought the book was our basic text. Don’t get me wrong, if it works for you, I’m all for it.

[Freedom1990]

When I first got to the rooms of AA, I wanted what everyone else had, and I wanted it yesterday.

I surely didn't have an epiphany, a horn-blowing spiritual experience if you will, at 10 days. I didn't have it at 40 days. I didn't have it at 6 months.

What I did have was a willingness to learn and an open mind to listen to what those people had to tell me.

Slowly, ever so slowly, I began to see something working around me in the forms of the people sitting in those meetings.

Someone would say something and it would just give me goosebumps because a light bulb came on, and it was just what I needed to hear.

Slowly, ever so slowly, I began to see the love these people truly had for me in their eyes, a fellow traveler on this road we call recovery.

Ever so slowly I began to feel the presence of a higher power, a higher power that evolved into the God of my understanding.

My progress has been ever so slow, and for that I am thankful.

Every thing that I am grateful for in sobriety has come to me gradually, with a lot of hard work, and often pain.

I have seen people who 'get' this program and 'get well' quickly, and it's been my observation over the past 21 years that they don't stay sober long.

Just my two cents...

[Barto]

I’ve observed it both ways. I’ve seen some get it right away and stay sober; I’ve seen some get it slowly and get drunk; and vice versa. Chuck C and Bill W had the white light variety. Mine was more the “educational variety” too.

Now of course I don’t know who actually got what and who didn’t. All I know is what I saw and heard.