"Sexual conduct"? Who'd date me??

[Jeff070204]

I saw the avalanche of reponses the thread on "sexual conduct" as it pertains to AA received, so rather than pile on, I thought I'd start a new thread.

This may be my favorite topic. Two things I've never understood -- and probably never will understand -- are people who are new in AA dating each other, and the unwritten "rule" against it.

When I finally had my last drink, I hadn't had sex in six months. After my last drink, I began a year-and-a-half long stretch of institutional living in men-only facilities, making dating -- logistically speaking, at the very least -- an unlikely possibility. Moreover, if I thought I had "LOSER" tattooed to my forehead before, now it was as if I'd been neutered.

I had no job, and hadn't for well over a year. I also had no job prospects, as I deemed myself essentially unemployable. (Who'd hire me after this, under these circumstances, right?) I had no money, no income, no car, and I lived in a halfway house with a bunch of ex-cons. And I had no reason whatsoever to think that any of these circumstances would change. My mood and outward behavior reflected my circumstances, and how I felt about them, and myself.

In short, I was a real catch. So when I heard the no-dating-for-a-year "rule", I thought it was some kind of sick joke.

"Awww -- ya mean I have to tell all these hotties who are beating a path to my door to get lost??"

Then I found out that not a few of the folks I saw at the meetings actually were getting with each other, and I was utterly baffled. I still am, actually.

I suppose I should mention also that a girl from AA essentially insisted that I date her when I had 18 months. I reluctantly went along with it. It lasted 5 days, and was a disaster.

[nandm]

Thank you for the post.

Your last line made me nearly fall off the couch in laughter. I would have to run as fast as I could from anyone that insisted I date them. Either they have a huge ego or are really sick individuals, maybe both. Glad you got wise fast.

[Astro]

Thanks for sharing that Jeff. Your experience with dating is pretty much a mirror reflection of mine. I'm just amazed at how many newcomers get together, only to have it last a short time, and sometimes with disastrous results.

I started dating an Al-Anon when I had almost two years of sobriety. In our first year together I broke up with her numerous times, I have an issue with commitmentphobia that I'm working on among other things. We're together again and so far doing very well, but I have to remember that I'm constantly a work in progress, relationships require just as much work as recocery, if not more.

[FightingIrish]

This one had me rolling. I totally relate. I have felt like an overweight, post-lobotomy patient since I got out of rehab. Even though now I am out of my "ice cream" phase, I basically have no motivation to embrace fitness and put myself out there. I came home from work today and...napped.

After doing my fourth and fifth steps recently, I now feel like that no relationships rule should be extended to five years for me, because I don't see myself being able to involve another person intimately in this mess called me for quite some time.

[QUOTE=Jeff070204;1710737]
In short, I was a real catch. [QUOTE]

[sandralove40]

we all feel that way beleive me!

[sandralove40]

by the way Happy ST patty's Day!!!

[CarolD]

sandralove40....Welcome to SR!

[CarolD]

Here are my experiences and observations on dating

The members who finish their formal Step work before
starting to date ...seem to be having a smoother
time with new relationships.

When I was newly sober...I found an AA group
filled with singles from 30 to 50 in age.

We did what I think of as "AA dating"

As we were in a city...driving was not an issue.
We had weekly AA dances..attended other meetings.
We went for food after a meeting
Met for movies or a play Went to the gym.
Some were into concerts or sporting events.

The point was to learn how to socialize sober
not to shack up or fall in love.

I AA dated for 3 years before I moved away.
We had a blast!

[Tazman53]

Dating I have to say I am thankful I was off the market when I first got sober and still am!

I was a mess for quite a while after I got sober and still am amazed my wife hung around! She was all but out of there before I went into detox, her and the kids had a place lined up to move to and she put it on hold to see how I would do. For some odd reason she really did not think I would stay sober!!!! Could have been me stopping drinking for 10 years and staying drunk most of those 10 years!!!!

Dr. Bob really nailed it when he said that we alcoholics seem to have a nack for hooking up with the best of women, my wife saw something with possibilties I could not see under my drunken exterior. I have been sober 1 1/2 years today and she is still around so I guess I am doing okay.

I am forever grateful I did not having the dating deal as a part of my recovery.

Jeff that was a great share, I kind of tremble thinking of the possibilty of a single guy asking me to sponsor him, my sponsee now was already engaged when he asked me to sponsor him so I did not have to address the dating when newly sober with him.

[bugsworth]

It seems to me from my experience in aa that the "no dating" rule is one of those "take what you want and leave the rest" rules...lol

For me I am more upset by people with "time" approaching a newcomer. I call those guys wolves...in sheeps clothing of course. As a woman it is easy to figure out when a motive is not pure...usually it is the men who forget my eyes are on my face!

[bballdad]

Jeff-thanks for your honesty....I got a good belly laught from it too..like Taz,I was off the market and still am.When they say 1 yr,they really mean 3 yrs.....


Bugs,just because I was off the market don`t mean I did not have the same problem,talking to your face...I mean...my sick head seemed to have radar lock below the face or something..

once while at a state convention I was talking to my friend Melanie and a big black woman,and another woman walked up with more cleavage than anything else.Well,my radar lock engaged..the big black gal rode my butt about it,and my first instinct was to lie,"I wasn`t looking at her cleavage,it was her name tag..I swear.." No you wasn`t she said...she had me-she knew it,I knew it,everyone knew it
anyway
that breaks a radar lock every time.Today I really try to focus on their eyes,and nothing below eye level-but it helps when the gals are dressed in a "not too reaveling manner."
I`m just not quite well yet my sponsor says but I am working on it

[RufusACanal]

Damn good post! Step back for a minute and look at the sheer emotional upheaval that new recovery is all about. The Alcoholic is healing and every function of the body is undergoing change hopefully back to balance. While it took years for our lives to erode to such a terrible condition, we Alcoholics expect a return to normalcy in short order. This convenience store mentality leads to relapse and more pain.

There is no rule in AA for no sex in the first year; what has evolved is the personal experience of those who have gone before. Suggested actions to steer away from more pain have been tagged as rules and nothing could be further from the truth. Yet, even though there is no such rule, it is still just plain common sense to look at sex wide eyed and anyone who cries that denial of the flesh in early recovery is wrong is seriously not focused on their recovery.

I have been there and done that. I know from my ESH and that of those I have sponsored that early recovery is a mine field for the newly sober. Why lay more mines? Why add to the already chaotic healing of the body and mind? Why offer to others your incomplete and damaged mind, heart and body unless it is solely founded on personal selfishness? Anyone in early recovery that decides to form any intimate personal relationship is doing so for all of the wrong reasons. There is no new breed of early recovery people who can somehow circumvent the recovery process and all of a sudden have become unique. Healing of a mind and body does not happen in a fortnight; neither will successful and loving sexual behaviors flourish in a mind or body simply because sensations have returned. Why gamble with a new life, unless you have all of the answers? There is a time and place for all in a new life; first things first only insures the best opportunity for success.

[Zoobear]

Get a plant.

[FightingIrish]

LOL. I heard someone say, "after 1 year, get a plant; after 2, a dog, after 3, maybe a person..."

[mike_mass]

two sickies don't make a wellie

[Tazman53]

LOL. I heard someone say, "after 1 year, get a plant; after 2, a dog, after 3, maybe a person..."

This really tickled me, we have a single guy with 30+ years who about 6 months ago said he figured it was okay for him to get some fish, last month he said his fish had babies! LOL This guy is a character and is all about the program.

[RufusACanal]

This is a fun post, though it concerns me greatly. How many men and women have we seen who do not heed the suggestions or who do not have the personal management skills or the personal resources to function in an intimate sexual relationship early in recovery? Thinking with the little head over the big head leads to the real possibility of another spree and all laughing aside, who wants to see the new man suffer another episode if we can help? Emotional relationships are big deals, even for the sound of mind and body, but for the newly recovering man or woman, they are added emotional turmoil that few can climb out of successful. It cannot be understated that new emotional relationships founded on broken people will not miraculously grow into fruitful and sustaining solutions. For my part, I refuse to sponsor a man who so lackadaisically will enter into such behavior; maybe you can.

Is this not about healing and time? Is this not about giving the man or woman your best effort and in return their best effort? If the new person is not willing to set aside the so called demands of the body, how can they ever focus on the needs of the mind and the spirit.

[Tazman53]

Rufus I concur that this is a serious matter, but we also need to keep in mind that we are not a glum lot! LOL

I have seen the fall of a young man in the rooms, he is an alcoholic and addict, he was doing very well at 6 months and got hooked up with a young lady fresh out of rehab, less then a week later he was in the hospital due to having gotten drunk with her and then ODing on some pills! He got out of the hospital and I saw him one more time before he was gone again, it has been 6 months since then.

We have a couple who did it the right way, they were about 8 months sober and when they found they had a mutual like for each other started going to different meetings until they both had a year, then they started AA dating for about 6 months and then real dating afterwards, they got married last year, they have 3 years sober each. He shared thier story and said they together decided right off the bat that their sobriety had to come first other wise they felt they were putting both of their programs in jeapordy.

[Jeff070204]

In light of the fact that the circumstances of my life were as I described them, my feeling was that I had essentially forfeited the possibility of ever dating again. If some girl had wanted to offer me her incomplete and damaged mind, heart and body, I hardly see how it would have resulted in "more pain". Nor do I see how such an unlikely turn of events would have significantly increased or decreased the likelyhood of my drinking again.

Take something like ACYPAA -- that being the "All-California Young People in Alcoholics Anoymous" convention, which is taking place here in Sacramento in three weeks. I was strongly encouraged to attend this event two years ago by many in my fellowship, for whom the event was the high-water mark of the AA year, and a culmination of what being sober in the Program was all about. I went, and when I got there I was flabbergasted. Not only was the scene that of a hotel being besieged by some 1,500 to 2,000 kids, roving the lobby and corridors in packs all hours of the day and night, screaming at one another, but I got the overall sense that the reason most people were there in the first place was the prospect of "hooking up" -- finding someone there to have sex with.

Most of the attendees at the event had less than a year of sobriety, and a sizeable number had less than a month. I don't know what percentage of those in attendance actually managed to have sex there -- I only know that the scene was complete and utter chaos, and that the sex part was so important to one young woman I traveled to the thing with that she had actually lined up a dude to bang at the thing in advance.

I did not have sex with anybody, and was only too happy when the thing was over. I left there more bewildered by the whole AA business than perhaps I ever had been.

[RufusACanal]

"In light of the fact that the circumstances of my life were as I described them, my feeling was that I had essentially forfeited the possibility of ever dating again. If some girl had wanted to offer me her incomplete and damaged mind, heart and body, I hardly see how it would have resulted in "more pain". Nor do I see how such an unlikely turn of events would have significantly increased or decreased the likelyhood of my drinking again."

I understand you do not see or understand my experience Jeff, because my experience is not yours. I treat folks with the respect I believe that is line with what God would have me do; banging a newcomer to recovery is not in line with what God has for me. Your sarcasm and disregard for my comments is completely cool as I have no emotional attachment. I do though, find zero humor in any member who justifies preying on those less fortunate and frankly my friend, the newcomer is less fortunate. By the way Jeff, feelings are feelings and facts are facts. Ask your Sponsor what this means in relation to your feelings of never dating again.

I also noticed that you were concerned with what others were doing - sorry, but has your Sponsor ever mentioned to you that what others do is none of your business? Just a thought and I wish you well in all!

[Astro]

Hmmm, I wonder how many of those young folks are sane and still sober today. And while I agree that fun and Fellowship are wonderful, "hooking up" and sex aren't what AA and The 12 Steps are about. What kind of a statement does that behavior make about our recovery programs?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but to me it seems like dating in early recovery is like holding a gun to your partner's head. Who's going to pull the trigger first? In spite of my best thinking and ill intentions, I'm grateful that nobody showed any interest in me in my first year. I needed to stay focused on my recovery, not a relationship.

[bugsworth]

bballdad, lol..very cute post!

Years ago I had a shirt that had huge eyes on the front...underneath it said "CAUGHT YOU" LOL It was fun...

[nandm]

The best description of dating in early recovery I have ever heard is "taking hostages."

[Jeff070204]

My sponsor loved to recite the quote from Matthew 5:28,

"That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

So, suffice it to say he didn't think too highly of the "meat market" elements he and I had both encountered at meetings and AA events. Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think I ever even told him that I attended the convention I described, because I figured he would almost certainly let loose with a diatribe of contempt for "that crowd". Whereas my attitude was more along the lines of, "Well, I think the whole thing is icky, but who am I to begrudge these people their happiness?"

Perhaps I've also been remiss in mentioning part of the reason the "one-year rule" seemed so odd to me in the first place. The idea of a guy actually hitting on some girl at an AA meeting, of all places, seemed so beyond lecherous that I had a hard time believing that it even went on. But of course, as we've discussed, it does. A lot.

[RufusACanal]

Thank you for this good stuff Jeff; that was a class post! BTW, tell your Sponsor you went to the conference; what could he do, eat you? LOL