How many people in AA really work their program?

[bob_sapp]

The other day, I was at an AA round-up, and I had a moment of clarity: I looked around, and I saw all these people I knew who have been sober for years, and have virtually nothing else. I saw people who are depressed, lonely, living in fear, frustrated, and generally desperate. I was talking to a friend and the topic went to people who commit suicide in AA (this happens). I can't understand why there is so much misery in AA, and the answer is "keep coming back." Over and over, I hear "don't drink and go to meetings." But I never hear people say things like "do a step 10, 11, and 12 every single day, starting when you wake up, or you might as well get drunk because it will be just as bad." Someone told me the latter last night, I actually did it, starting with step 10 and prayer last night, and then reading "on awakening" today and honestly getting on my knees and praying earnestly for god's will for myself, not my own.

I was talking to a friend who said that we are meant to be "happy, joyous and free." Some people think this is just for the newcomers or right after you do your first step 5. I want that every day. If I do god's will every day to the best of my ability, I see no reason why I should be meant to go through life in misery. I am sick and tired of watching people with years of sobriety have nothing that I want(not to mention the newcomers who don't stay because they have noone who can tell them how to work the program), and it scares me to think that is what I am slowly becoming. I feel like it is either work those steps properly, and make them my highest priority in life, or put a gun to my head. I am sick of quiet, desperate, sober misery and misguided AA, and I don't want to go down the same path I see so many others on right now. I am trying to find the people out there who really, truly get the program. When I get honest about it, I can say there aren't many out there.

[Dee74]

you worry a lot about what other people are doing, Bob.

D

[sugErspun]

You aren't alone in that Bob...but like Dee said - you can't blame others.

The fellowship you crave will build up around you. Read 'A Vision For You' again....

Also - Raymer gives a pretty good pitch about it in a talk at the Irish FOTS...on xa-speakers.

[nandm]

Dee has a good point. I actually had a reply in my head after reading your post but after reading Dee's reply it has affected mine.

Bob have you ever read the book "A New Pair Of Glasses" by Chuck C.? It really puts a perspective on recovery that it seems you may not be seeing. Many times we see what we look for in life. Have you ever had a similiar experience to this; wanting a certain color or type of vehicle and not ever seeing one on the road until after purchasing it. Then they seem to be everywhere? This is an example of how our minds look for what we want to see rather than what is actually there.

When I find I am having a slump, or down cycle in my recovery; I look inward rather than outward. In doing this I am able to spend my time and energy in a productive manner of finding the problem and a solution. If I am looking outward then I wind up wasting my time and energy on worrying about what others are doing or not doing which is something I can not change.

I have not run across what you are seeing. Yes, I have run across unhappy people in AA just as in every day life. I don't think that percentage wise this is any higher in AA.

The power and tools to change my life and have peace, serenity, and happiness is at my fingertips. When I am working the program, applying the steps and principles to EVERY aspect of my life I find I have peace, serenity, and happiness inside regardless of what is going on around me. The steps get to the point that when I apply them to every problem or challenge I am faced with in life they have become something that I do not have to consciously think about applying. I just do it, by applying the steps I find solutions. By finding solutions to these problems or challenges I find peace and happiness.

[SF69]

Bob: Really? Is this just one group, or a general consensus of a few groups you go to? Just wondering because while I do see lonely, depressed, fearful people at meetings, they tend to be newcomers to the program. Just about everybody else there with a little time in the program seem to be some of the happiest people I see daily.

[Astro]

Wow, I liked nandm's response!

Bob, by attending meetings daily if possible, staying active in the program, and by practicing and applying the principles to my life I've discovered something meaningful.

This paragraph from Chapter 7 in the Big Book, "Working With Others" says it best for me.......

Life will take on new meaning. To watch people recover, to see them help others, to watch loneliness vanish, to see a fellowship grow up about you, to have a host of friends-this is an experience you must not miss. We know you will not want to miss it. Frequent contact with newcomers and with each other is the bright spot of our lives.

[1cor13]

I don’t know how many people really work their AA program I’m to busy working mine. People are at all levels and most importantly so am I. You said you were looking to find people out there who really, truly get the program. What is that Bob what is the program and more importantly is it something to be had or worked? I learned it’s different for everyone so you may be a while in your search.

Water seeks its own level

[Rob B]

Bob,
I very much identify with what you describe. Ultimately, the only person's program I need to really pay attention to are mine, the men I sponsor, and a small group of guys I have spiritual license with.

Everyone of us is a teacher and an example, one way or the other. Few people in my area have what I want, and that's ok. I prayed for a teacher to be put into my life. God has answered that prayer in several ways. Keep seeking a current experience, find the folks who are doing the work and join them.

Be warned, one of the most controversial topics in AA is the program of AA, Dr. Bob said "your heavenly father will never let you down" so far in my life this has been true. Feel free to PM me, I understand where you are coming from. I have been there.

[Sheryl85]

Good Grief man! Where do you live? Never mind…just run! Run, Forest, Run!

Seriously Bob, I only came to AA for two reasons. One was to learn how not to drink and the other was to be happy about it. If being dry was all there was to AA, and to life in general, I would have taken that “permanent solution to a temporary problem” a long, long time ago. As of May 1 of this year, I will have completed 23 years in this program. I’ve had contented sobriety for most of that time although I can’t say I’ve always been “happy, joyous and free.” But for the time that I have been contented it’s because I had put my rear in gear and was working the Steps. As far as I’m concerned, “God rewards honest effort, not wishful thinking.”

I’m like everyone else here, I’ve had good times and not so good times. I’ve been through the loss of loved ones, endured my son being diagnosed with autism, had estrangements with family members and friends, changes in personal finances (both good and bad), changes in job situations (ditto), and all the other situations a person can go through. During this process I discovered that life didn’t get any better because I worked my Program. I got better because I worked my program. Life is life! But to answer your question, I work the Program and take the Steps. And I try to work my maintenance Steps every day as well as Step One which is the only one I can work to 100% perfection on a daily basis.

Although you didn’t solicit my advice, I suggest that you start looking at what you are doing and don’t focus so much on what you think others are doing, because I find it hard to believe that there wasn’t a single person at that round-up that hadn’t experienced contented sobriety. You seem to have the lenses in your glasses backwards! As a start, try focusing on the solutions and not the problems for awhile. In the meantime, get the BB out, start reading and just for today, try to stay in the moment.

There should be some really great suggestions people will post on this site that you will be able to use so hang in there and keep an open mind as you read. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

[laurie6781]

I find that what is going on on my insides is what I attract and see on the outside, so......I have learned over these many ODAATs that I have to be concerned about only one person, ME. I cannot fix anyone else.

Yes, the ideal is to be Happy, Joyous, and Free. However, life can throw us some curve balls and it's what I do with those curves and how I handle them is what the 12 steps are all about for me today. First I had to work the steps, then........................I had to learn how to LIVE the steps, One Day At A Time.

When I get a curve in life today, how so I react, do I create it into drama and chaos, or do I look for the solutions. Do I look within to see what my part, if any was, in the current problem?

Yes, I will celebrate 27 continuous years in June. They have been the ABSOLUTE BEST YEARS of my life!!!!!!! And I will be 63 on July 1st.

Dee said it Bob. Time to focus on YOU. How others work or don't work a program is not your problem. I had an old timer, tell me at my home group every wekk, until the day he passed:

"You may be the only example of a Big Book that someone ever SEES, so make DAMN sure you are a true and accurate copy!"

And it works for me.

Nandm I have the book "A New Pair Of Glasses" and I have the full set of tapes of the retreat that Chuck C did, that became the words of "A New Pair Of Glasses." They were given to me for my 3rd birthday and have been one of my most favorite treasures, to once again be able to hear that beautiful man. Out in Southern California they called him "The Water Walker." He knew it, he would grin, and just keep on living his life by the 12 Steps of AA <g>

Bob I will say one more thing, I am sure you have heard others say it, but I can guarantee that my VERY WORST day sober, was still 1000% better than my best day drinking!!!!. Happy, Joyous and Free? You bet I am!!!!!

J M H O

Love and hugs,

[BP44]

Bob, I would encourage you to seek out a group that has literature based meetings. My home group has scheduled BB studies, as well as, step studies. However, in addition to the regularly scheduled studies, all open and closed discussion topics come from the literature. It is rare that the topic will be "your fricken day" or "problem of the day". And even then it will be brought around to solution rather quickly. For this reason we have little dead weight that shares at our meetings. Solution oriented meetings have been very important to me. What I need to get out of meetings is how you are living the spiritual life. Because this is one of the truths I have found....The last thing I think I know about spritual living is the noose around my neck. Meetings DO NOT keep me sober. They are a place where I get fellowship, I hear the message and I carry the mesage.

[BP44]

One more thing....if you walk into a meeting and can't find a Big Book in sight, find another meeting.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

AA isn't work, being greasy and sleazy trying to hide my drinking was hard work.

All the AA program in my opinion is asking that you be a good person. Plain in simple. We have to clean up our acts. We get out of ourselves an become a productive member of society.

I had to admit, that the drink came before anything else. I did go to work and pay my bills but, that was the extent of it. After work, I just wanted to be left alone so, I could drink. Pitiful existence looking back on it.

AA has given the people involved notice, I said involved a new lease on life. You touched on something, half measures availed us nothing.

[Signal30]

Bob, like the Third Step Prayer says, we ask God to relieve us from the bondage of self so we can use our energy and actions towards something positive like helping others through Gods will. In my prayers every day I always make two promises. I promise to God that I will continue to give him my fears, resentment's, character defects, and shortcomings, and I will continue to do my best to help others and do the right thing by Gods will. I say this every day in my prayers to remind me that helping others is the foundation stone to our and my recovery.

If I want to maintain emotional sobriety and serenity, I know what I have to keep doing. I channel the energy towards helping others rather than accusing others of not doing what I think should be done when it comes to the program of AA.

I do my best not to concern myself on how others work or not work the program. I know plenty of people with many, many years of sobriety that continue to work the program and help others. We all have choices. I make mine, and others make theirs.

Of course if I get complacent, then I may be one of those that are just kinda "there" in AA. Or, worse I just stop going all together, lose my emotional sobriety, and possibly physical sobriety. It's overwhelming to think of having to do the principals and practices of AA for the rest of your life. That's why it is important to only focus on today. Did I live and act by Gods will to the best of my ability today? If not, what should I do or not do differently?

Old habits can easily make me the biggest hypocrite of everything I just said. If I get bitter towards those who I think are "slacking", then negative emotions like that will build and get out of control.

I focus on what I need to do, and what I think, (and pray) Gods will would be when acting proactive in the program of AA, and the little program we call life.


Tom

[PaperDolls]

Bob
There are some wonderful responses here. I hope you read each of them throughly.

I just wanted to add that is any person is feeling desperate or miserable or depressed for a long period of time they should seek the advice of a medical doctor. If anyone feels suicidal they should seek help immediately. Very often there are mental issues present (i.e. depression, anxiety, etc) before the drug abuse/addiction.

I enjoyed being drunk because it helped me to not feel ...... once I stopped drinking I had to deal with (and am still dealing with) those things I was trying to escape. For me, the depression didn't go away once I stopped drinking. For some it does.

[RufusACanal]

Bob,

I asked a Pastor friend of mine in Florida several years ago why he thought people went to church. He remarked that most of his congregation came because they were spiritually in need. I was attempting to corner him on another point when we got off on why folks go to church. My friend likened churchs to hospitals; places where the sick are served and healed.

Is not AA the same? Are we not searching for wellness, no less than any other sick person would?

Bob, please take a moment and read this link and let me know what you think.

SURRENDER VERSUS COMPLIANCE IN THERAPY WITH SPECIAL REFERENCE TO ALCOHOLISM

Ron

[RufusACanal]

Bob,

You may have mentioned and I can't remember, what Step are you currently working? Do you perform any service work at this time; chair meetings, pickup folks to go to meetings, make coffee? Have you found a Higher Power of your understanding? Do you rely on this Power for the strength and the wisdom to live free?

[nandm]

Thanks for the link Rufus. That was an interesting and educational article.

[CAPTAINZING2000]

Originally Posted by laurie6781

I find that what is going on on my insides is what I attract and see on the outside, so......I have learned over these many ODAATs that I have to be concerned about only one person, ME. I cannot fix anyone else.

Yes, the ideal is to be Happy, Joyous, and Free. However, life can throw us some curve balls and it's what I do with those curves and how I handle them is what the 12 steps are all about for me today. First I had to work the steps, then........................I had to learn how to LIVE the steps, One Day At A Time.

When I get a curve in life today, how so I react, do I create it into drama and chaos, or do I look for the solutions. Do I look within to see what my part, if any was, in the current problem?

Yes, I will celebrate 27 continuous years in June. They have been the ABSOLUTE BEST YEARS of my life!!!!!!! And I will be 63 on July 1st.

Dee said it Bob. Time to focus on YOU. How others work or don't work a program is not your problem. I had an old timer, tell me at my home group every wekk, until the day he passed:

"You may be the only example of a Big Book that someone ever SEES, so make DAMN sure you are a true and accurate copy!"

And it works for me.

Nandm I have the book "A New Pair Of Glasses" and I have the full set of tapes of the retreat that Chuck C did, that became the words of "A New Pair Of Glasses." They were given to me for my 3rd birthday and have been one of my most favorite treasures, to once again be able to hear that beautiful man. Out in Southern California they called him "The Water Walker." He knew it, he would grin, and just keep on living his life by the 12 Steps of AA <g>

Bob I will say one more thing, I am sure you have heard others say it, but I can guarantee that my VERY WORST day sober, was still 1000% better than my best day drinking!!!!. Happy, Joyous and Free? You bet I am!!!!!

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Thanks for being there for the rest of us


Hugs

Chris

[RufusACanal]

If we, the members of Alcoholics Anonymous and SR are so flawed and miserable, why do you continue to subject yourself to the pain of our company?

[Pinkcuda]

I don't like the word "Program" even though it's use is pretty commonplace. I prefer the word "Lifestyle".
I figure that A.A. is a guide that you use to determine how you should live your life, "Lifestyle" is the only word that fits once the program becomes a habit.

[bob_sapp]

To all who asked, yes I am working on and looking at myself, and the feelings I have described in my OP are partially what prompted this.

Originally Posted by BP44

Bob, I would encourage you to seek out a group that has literature based meetings. My home group has scheduled BB studies, as well as, step studies. However, in addition to the regularly scheduled studies, all open and closed discussion topics come from the literature. It is rare that the topic will be "your fricken day" or "problem of the day". And even then it will be brought around to solution rather quickly. For this reason we have little dead weight that shares at our meetings. Solution oriented meetings have been very important to me. What I need to get out of meetings is how you are living the spiritual life. Because this is one of the truths I have found....The last thing I think I know about spritual living is the noose around my neck. Meetings DO NOT keep me sober. They are a place where I get fellowship, I hear the message and I carry the mesage.

I identify with this. I want to focus on the bb and true meaning of AA, not the traditional stuff we do/say at meetings that doesn't do dick-all in the big picture of long-term sobriety(what I want to have).

Originally Posted by RufusACanal

Bob,

You may have mentioned and I can't remember, what Step are you currently working? Do you perform any service work at this time; chair meetings, pickup folks to go to meetings, make coffee? Have you found a Higher Power of your understanding? Do you rely on this Power for the strength and the wisdom to live free?

I have worked the 12 steps and am currently going through them a 2nd time. I should be doing another 4/5 in the next month, and am doing 10,11,12 every day now, reading 86-88 in the BB----to me those pages are the essence of the program right there. When I wake up in the morning and when I go to bed. I am learning that if I don't do that every day, my best intentions don't mean $hit, I can easily slide into a place where I don't know what I am doing and why. I am on a service committee, I chair meetings at my home group from time to time, etc. Yes I have a higher power of my understanding and I rely on him for strength and wisdom.

[jimhere]

Bob,you are right about what you see in AA. It aggravates me too. But guess what? It is up to you and up to me to tell the truth. All we can do is be an example and change AA one drunk at a time through sponsorship. You can do that too, but you had better get used to being called arrogant, a Big Book Nazi, and worse. You'll find that people that do the work aren't always welcome among the people that don't do the work. You'll find that when you go to the MOTR meetings and talk about what you've done, the people that haven't done the work always think that you are trying to tell them what to do. It is not always comfortable and can be a bit lonely at times. But we have a bullshit sifter called Alcoholics Anonymous (the book).

Have you seen "Gresham's Law and Alcoholics Anonymous?" It was written in the mid seventies and is quite prophetic.

I have said that I wouldn't have many resentments if I didn't go to AA meetings.I write a lot of inventory about what people do and don't do in AA. The truth I usually see is that I get stirred up about what is not my business. My job is to do God's work and be an example of God's Power, God's Love, and God's way of life. A friend of mine used to say carry the message to everyone and be there for the ones that want it.
Jim
Jim

[CAPTAINZING2000]

The important thing to remember in a meeting, we're all just sick people trying to get well !!

[Music]

My first sponsor told me if I work the program the same way he does, I might get drunk. I never did quite understand that but I do now. There's only one program and that's the one contained in the first 164 pages of the Big Book. Nobody works those steps exactly the same way. People I know in AA work their own program. Some are successful and some aren't. Some are happy and some aren't. Their results are none of my business. I work my program and that's my business. I'd suggest you mind your own business Bob and stop worrying about others and trying to read things into what you see.