Step One, the losing team?

[Treasure2Find]

In the beginning I don’t think I really understood step one and I definitely wasn’t one of the lucky ones who woke up and said I'm getting sober and going to AA today. Circumstances beyond my control forced my hand into thinking AA and a sponsor might not be a bad idea.

I was lucky very lucky in my choice of sponsors. Bill W. makes reference to chapter 3 several times throughout the Big Book as a starting point for newcomers. My sponsor started me with chapter 3 and after reading the chapter I had no choice but to concede to my innermost self that I was an alcoholic. This was the first step in recovery.

As I said I had no intention of coming into AA and getting a sponsor. I had been to meetings in the past and it just wasn’t for me. There just had to be a better way. I tired anything and everything to stay sober and I thought that sitting around with a bunch of losers was certainly not the answer. I never found that better way and in truth had I not got here by accident I'd either be dead or still looking. To be honest I can stomach neither.

I realized that those losers had something that I didn’t, that they had some secret. In the end I wanted to know what it was. Today I’m happy to be part of the losing team.

All Good Things,

[Signal30]

Those circumstances were beyond your control, they were in control of your higher power. And it looks that you are sober. There are those that look at you and wish they could have to you have. I never envied a loser, and they don't either. I understand what you mean by loser, and I know you don't think you are one. When I see those in the fellowship, I see miracles.


Tom

[Tazman53]

I like many other had to surrender in order to get on the winning side!

[Zoobear]

Great post!

[Treasure2Find]

Wow I finially put a thread out there that didnt cause an issue, its a good day. Thank-you everyone!!!!!!!!

All Good Things,

[Sugah]

I think I'm one of the lucky ones you refer to, T2F (and I'm sorry for calling you Taz in another thread awhile back -- though he's a good guy, and I didn't think you'd be offended, it's still nice to be called by the right name!).

I took the first step before coming into the rooms this last time. Oh, I still did formal step work with my sponsor, but if, by lucky, you mean knowing that alcohol and everything I used in the place of alcohol had kicked my ass, had beaten me beyond recognition, and that my life was a total mess because of it, then I was lucky. Took fifteen years from my first AA meeting to get there, though. Lucky, too, that I made it that long.

Know where my sponsor started me? On the Preface & the Forwards to the first three editions. I thought it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Everyone I've worked with has thought it was stupid, but they do it anyway. And a few have done it with others, too. I needed to relate as quickly as possible, and I needed a good dose of hope. I found what I needed to get started in there, but the first step? Luckily, it was already firmly taken in my heart.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[sugErspun]

There are a lot of promises in those prefaces...

[collinsmi]

My first reading assignment was from the very beginning of the BB up through page 43. A wealth of information in there and VERY pertinent to those just coming through the door (as well as the rest of us too). Had to read it every night for 2 or 3 weeks. I thought that was stupid too (thought that about a LOT of step work and many meetings too). I'd read War and Peace when I was 15 (except for the boring parts), why should I have to read ANYTHING more than once?

Fortunately I was in the frame of mind where I shut up and did it anyway. Today I'm in a BB study group where we read and study from the preface through page 103 continuously. Keep finding new stuff in there too.

[sugErspun]

Yeah...as I just heard today.

"If you tell someone to read pages 1-164, and they are using anything other than a first edition, they will even miss the Dr's Opinion"

Start at the title page....and don't skip.

I was even taken through the table of contents (there is stuff there!!).

(sorry I know this may be a little off-topic, but thought it may be relevant since the Dr's Opinion is so vitally crucial to Step 1)

[Treasure2Find]

Thank you Sugah

On the Preface & the Forwards to the first three editions. I thought it was stupid, but I did it anyway. Everyone I've worked with has thought it was stupid, but they do it anyway.

I don’t think its stupid at all and it’s a great place to start. To be honest I don’t know what’s been right or wrong over the years. If it works it works right?

As far as I know Bill mentioned the chapter on alcoholism (chapter 3) in regards to the newcomer three times. Bill writes have him (the newcomer) look at the chapter on alcoholism (chapter 3). Another quote, when a discussion does arise, you might suggest he read this book or at least the chapter on alcoholism (chapter 3). In working with others again it points to the chapter on alcoholism (chapter 3). There is no mention of any other chapter pointing to the newcomer in the entire book, no other starting points. This all leads me to believe chapter 3 was the starting place for Bills program when working with others. Chapter 3 step one solidifies my beliefs.

People start with the Dr’s Opinion, the forwards, Bills story, a combination of Bills story and the forwards. People start with the 12/12, Twenty four hours a day, As Bill sees it. Is there anyone else out there with another version that I haven’t put down. The only good news is that all these versions eventually bring me and you through 12 steps. It all works but for the newcomer who is suffering through readings that are in the beginning unnecessary I don’t think it is. How many 24 hour chips or one month chips is your home group buying as apposed to 1 year chips?

Next time you go to a meeting whisper something in the ear of the guy to the right and tell him to pass it on. By the time the message gets back to you its not what you originally said. This is what has happened to AA, one guy has a message and passes it on to the next and before you know it the
BB is gone and I'm reading Recovery for Dummies.

[sugErspun]

Before there was AA

There was a book called Alcoholics Anonymous

I would just as soon go to the source, open it to the beginning where it states:

"We of Alcoholics Anonymous, are more than one hundred men and women who have recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book. For them, we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication will be necessary. We think this account of our experiences will help everyone to better understand the alcoholic. Many do not comprehend that the alcoholic is a very sick person. And besides, we are sure that our way of living has its advantages for all."

Precisely how we have recovered. I don't know of any other piece of literature of sobriety method which makes that bold of a statement.

No further authentication will be necessary.

In the beginning, all people had was that book.

(btw - my home meeting does not give out chips, or cakes, or sing songs. In the month of your birthday, on the last Wednesday of that month, you get 5 minutes to share).

A lot of sobriety in that room. A lot of newcomers finding sponsorship. After searching for years in AA, I found a group that carried a message with depth and weight.

It's alive.

[Treasure2Find]

Yes and in the Book called Alcoholics Anonymous there was a man named
Bill Wilson the Co founder. The man who wrote that book made reference to the chapter on alcoholism more than any other chapter in the book. Telling you, me, and everyone who wants to pass it on when working with someone new refer to the chapter on alcoholism. What’s more important going through the steps and having a spiritual experience or learning AA’s history? I mean after all it is a life or death illness we are dealing with.

Step one begins with the chapter on Alcoholism and step 12 ends with working with others. I have to say again what’s more important the steps and a spiritual experience or AA’s history?

Working the steps is what’s most important, we both know it. Actually to show how muddled the forwards are in the forward to the first edition it says that the main purpose of this book is to show alcoholics precisely how we recovered. In chapter four it says the books main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem. So which is it to show alcoholics how they recovered or is it’s purpose to find a power greater than your self. See what I’m saying the purpose of the book means nothing to the newly sober alcoholic. What’s important is that I trust in God and clean house. Who gives a crap how AA has blossomed over the years? There's plenty of time to learn all that when the obsession has been lifted not before.

It doesnt really matter I'm not fighting, you cant see it, you wont read it, and you wont accept it. Believe it or not I'm on your side. You are right all we had was a book. You dont actually think this book was writen much like a romance novel do you. This entire book came from the experiences Bill and Bob had from working with others. It's ignorant to say all we had was a book. These guys gave their lives so that you and I could be sober so that the message could be carried from one person to the next.

Does anyone read this book?

[stone]

Originally Posted by Treasure2Find

Does anyone read this book?

No-one else reads it as well as you do.

[sugErspun]

I am in agreement with you T2F, believe it or not.

But I could not have experienced step 1 without the Dr's Opinion. That was the main purpose of my previous post.

If I open a fourth edition to page 1 - it gives me a really nifty story about Bill.

I prefer to open it to a promise....then maybe I get an answer to "Why can't I stop when I start?" - The Dr's Opinion explains it. It also explains what has to happen for me to recover. "..unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope for them."

For some, to get an answer to the question: "What is wrong with me?" can be very helpful. Afterall, before you get a prescription (spiritual experience) and learn how to use it (the twelve steps) you need to know what the problem is. Why do I drink like I do? - To overcome a craving beyond my mental control. It opened this program up to me.

There is a very good reason that the Dr's Opinion is not just another Appendix in the book. It's right there in the front and ends with a very hopeful statement:

"I ernestly advise every alcoholic to read this book through and through perhaps he came to scoff but may remain to pray."

Yeah,
I read the book and I continue to read the book.

You mentioned earlier about whispering something in someone's ear next to you, and having them do the same until it comes all the way around - you will undoubtedly get something different back. Especially in a room full of alcoholics.

Read a passage from the book, pass it to your right and ask the guy next to you to read the same passage, and so forth - pretty soon you will have the person on your left reading the exact same thing back to you from when the book left your hands.

I will take the newcomer, who has not yet found an answer through the book. Starting on the title page..and read ALL of them. The words have been left intact.


"

[jimhere]

I was going to be quiet here, but it is our message we are talking about. Did you know that before the 4th edition was printed there was a movement afoot to put the Dr.'s Opinion back on page 1 where it was originially in the 1st edition? Some of us think the Dr.'s Opinion is that important. We were ignored by the conference literature committee, who thought silly stuff like the dust jacket that said this book "had once been the AA message," or some crap like that, that modem-to-modem AA is like going to my homegroup stuff, and Dr. Paul's story were more important. Read the current stories in the 4th edition-hardly any mention of reecovering from alcoholism and being transformed by the power of God through the 12 Steps. I guess it really does reflect more accurately our current membership.

First, the purpose of the book should mean everything to a newly sober alcoholic who wants to recover in Alcoholics Anonymous. That is why it is written the way it is written. It is designed to transmit not only information, but to transmit an experience.

The two points of the book being being written to show others precisely how they had recovered and to enable one to find a Power that will solve their problem are not contrary. What do you think the problem we are concerned with is? I would think alcoholism. So if I tap into the Power of God that solves my alcoholism, would I not have recovered from alcoholism?

Second, because I have had the experience the book describes, to show others precisely how I have recovered becomes my primary spiritual aim in AA. Enough said
Jim

[Treasure2Find]

Sugerspun I can see your point about the Dr’s opinion however most of the people that Bill and Bob worked with were already in the hospital and the sick and suffering already knew what the DR’s Opinion had to say. The whole idea with working with the newcomer is not to arouse any type of prejudice. However I can agree the book does say to make use of people like doctors and ministers but the book also says because of my own experience I am more useful than a Dr ever could be. I mention Bill and chapter 3. The founder of this program tells me on three different occasions to bring a newcomer to chapter 3 and it’s dismissed as if it’s not even in the book. The founder of this program said this..

Yes the Dr’s Opinion tells me about the craving and the allergy and it gives an explanation on why I can’t drink but again let’s hear it from the mouths of newcomers across the world.

I’M DYING OF ALCOHOLISM WHO CARES WHATS CAUSING IT JUST PLEASE FIX IT. I went to the hospital this past summer and I was sicker than sick and required emergency surgery. I didn’t stop and ask questions I was going to die. I went in for the surgery and fully recovered. After I recovered I had a follow up visit and the Dr told me why this happened, what caused it, and how to prevent it in the future.

This was no different than when I got sober. I didn’t give a rat’s ass as to what was going on all I knew is I wanted it to stop. I got someone who was an expert in the field and I went through the 12 steps, spiritual experience done deal.

From that point on I wanted to know about Bill and Bob and how it all started and what caused it. What the heck was this craving thing all about? Now that the fog had lifted I read every book I could on the subject and still do so but when I came in I couldn’t hold a cup of coffee without someone running for a mop. You mean to tell me learning AA history was more important to me than recovering at the time. Had you said lets talk about the Dr’s opinion I would have said $%&# you and given up there and then. I knew what the Dr’s opinion was, I was going to be locked up, or I was going to die. So maybe your approach works for someone who has the luxury of taking their time with this but I needed this fixed yesterday.

You all make very good points I have no doubt you can do the job. Maybe in some other way or by using some other spiritual approach you can help the newcomer. I definitely encourage you to use your own conscience. I have no monopoly on God merely and approach that seems to work.

Jim I own a copy of the first, the third, and forth editions and I have read all the stories in all of the books. The reason the forth edition hardly makes mention of recovering from alcoholism and being transferred by the power of God through the steps might be because we are not getting to the heart of the matter anymore. People come in and out of the rooms and were reading art history to the newcomer instead of step one. Getting to the heart of the matter for Bill Wilson was chapter 3 step one he mentions it over and over and over again. Maybe in the fifth edition we will hear more stories of recovery based on the power of God if we simply get back to causes and conditions and listen to the clues our founders left us.

[jimhere]

I see your point T2F. However, I read the forwards to the people I sponsor.

Some recover and go on to sponsor others, some don't. I think it has to do with the shape a person is when I encounter them. The ones that have been away from alcohol long enough to be feeling better and "getting their life back" usually don't stick, doesn't matter what I read to them or how fast or how slow we do the steps.

If your approach works, keep at it. Meanwhile I'll keep doing what I do. If we ever go on a Twelfth-Step call together maybe we can pray together before we go do it instead of debating how we are going to go do it or what is the right way or the wrong way. That's all for tonight, see you later.
Jim

[sugErspun]

The spiritual program I use are the twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous, make no mistake in that. The obsession to drink has been removed. My posts seem to hit a sore spot with you, but that isn't my problem. When addressed, I will respond.

When I was new, I had no idea about the allergy, the obsession of the mind. I just knew something was wrong with me. For someone to pull out a book and say "look - this Doctor said this way back when and it's the same today, let's see what else is there since it tells us it has directions on how to recover" - I went from despair to hope in a flash.

I speak from my experience, it was not a history lesson, it was a lesson on What Is Wrong With Me?

Never do I mention telling a newcomer to go reading up AA history. We read the book TOGETHER, page by page - it's a lesson in discipline, I am used to getting a quick fix to my problems, your post above SCREAMS of "I JUST WANT TO FEEL BETTER", we're alcoholic afterall.

Reading that book, before you know it you are working the steps. I never read ahead in the book further than I had with my sponsor. I was desperate enough to take instruction and willing to do whatever it took - even feeling like I was going to die. All instruction I got came out of that book and that book alone. I don't need things any more complicated than they already are. I don't need to know about PAWS or addiction specialists or thinking things through. Through that book I put my life into God's hands. Simple as that.

Step One - I am powerless over alcohol and my life has become unmanageable. My BODY is powerless - when it has some in it - it is off an running and an outside force has to stop it. No matter how bad I want to quit, nor how long I have had since my last drink, I will drink again.

Step One - I will drink again. I have and suffer from a hopeless condition of body, mind and spirit. I like that a Doctor, he who specializes in the human body tells me there is nothing they can do for me. I am f**cked, for lack of a better term.

Step one is an experience, it is not writing out all the reasons that I don't have power over alcohol.

We are talking about depth and weight - you are skipping to chapter 3. IMO this is a great disservice to a potential alcoholic, even a real alcoholic. Of course we need to relate to them on a human level and share our experience. But the recovery, the twelve steps and how to do them (precisely) are in the Big Book. Maybe tonight take a look at all those pages before chapter 3, they are very important and have been left unchanged (even when Bill was alive they remained unchanged - I wonder why.)

I find step one from the title page up until 'We Agnostic' - where I am offered a solution.

Potential alcoholics reading the book, page by page, doing what it says was the great hope for Bill Wilson - do you doubt that? What was the motivation behind putting a book with precise instruction into print?

How did I get sober by working the steps out of the book? And my sponsor, and his sponsor, and his sponsor before that. The way I have been taken through the book is clear cut. I need that with my alcoholic mind.

You continue to mention Chapter 3 and step one, do I need to qoute everything that points to powerlessness (drunk and sober) that comes prior to Chapter 3?

Bill Wilson put his and 100 other people's experience into a book. You may consider it another piece of literature of the rack, but it has ALL the answers in it. Including working with others...

You mention what Bill Wilson said as if it's the word of God..chapter 3! Have you experimented with LSD as Bill did (after you got sober)??

Should we start a discussion on some other things that Bill Wilson said?

What did he say on his deathbed? (What did he ask for?)

Maybe we should talk more about Dr Bob - he actually worked the steps. Bill talked about the steps.

[Treasure2Find]

Your posts are really pretty good actually but don’t do much in the way of harming me. I don’t know why you would even say something like that unless you intended to.

I said right from the start that what ever we read we seem to end up with the 12 steps. However like Jim and yourself pointed out the ones that are less desperate don’t seem to make it in AA and if they do make it they end up with a home grown versions of the 12 steps and start killing others that come into the program.

As far as what you said about reading up on AA history what on earth do you think the forwards are? We stared with 100 men and women then it goes into saying what a wholesale miracle we have, to oh my god look how we have grown and then continues to tell me the book has been translated into forty-three languages. Where in any of that do you see steps one? Also can you honestly say to the guy that’s holding a cup of coffee with six hands wants or even cares that the book has been translated into forty-three languages? You have more common sense than that?

My non-alcoholic wife knows more about the Big Book then any AA I have ever met. I said to her the other day honey what can you do for the alcoholic in your life. She says according to Bill I put this big book in a place where he might see it and if he sees it and wants to discuss it I direct him or her to chapter 3 just like Bill says. I said to her why would you do that. She said because I believe Bill over what the rest of you nut jobs have to say. Why would you say that I’m your husband, yes you are but Bill wrote the Book that saved your ass? She also goes on to say considering she is the ultimate care-giver I’d want to know what the Doctors opinion is. Is my husband going to live, do I need to get my affairs in order. My wife also says that the chapter to Wives cross references into the Dr’s opinion regarding the classification of different types of alcoholics. She says it even cross referenced the chapter in the back of BB called Spiritual Experience. It tells me not to be upset about my husband’s new high stepping friends that what could be accomplished in a few short weeks or months could never be accomplished with years of self discipline. That the power of God goes deep.

The word powerless is only mentioned once in the entire Big Book that is on page 59. So you can go around and quote anything you want that says powerless. The Big Book mentions powerless once but it mentions power 53 times would you like me to quote the solution 53 different ways or continue to point out the problem thats only mentioned once? I guarantee the newcomer wants the solution and not the problem.

Then you go on to attack against Bill and the fact he took LSD. If he did or didn’t take it’s none of my concern the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Plus did they even know it was a drug back then maybe he took it to shake the depression he had. How hurtful is that to the newcomer who is trying to get sober. I forget sometimes that I’m not a prescribing physician and when it comes the medical condition of others I am of no use so why character assassinate a man devoting his life to saving mine?

Yes let’s talk about the steps and Bill and Bob. Bill had the spiritual experience that removed the obsession as it seemed over night. Bob struggled with the obsession for two and half years so when you say working the steps verse talking the steps what did you mean? Everything you say has validity but nothing to back it up. In the end you resort to bad mouthing one of the co-founders. If I have something to say about someone I make sure they are in front of me to hear it. When I do something like character assassinate I parctice a 10th step and admit I'm wrong, who did you say your sponsor was?

[Treasure2Find]

In the beginning I don’t think I really understood step one and I definitely wasn’t one of the lucky ones who woke up and said I'm getting sober and going to AA today. Circumstances beyond my control forced my hand into thinking AA and a sponsor might not be a bad idea.

I was lucky very lucky in my choice of sponsors. Bill W. makes reference to chapter 3 several times throughout the Big Book as a starting point for newcomers. My sponsor started me with chapter 3 and after reading the chapter I had no choice but to concede to my innermost self that I was an alcoholic. This was the first step in recovery.

As I said I had no intention of coming into AA and getting a sponsor. I had been to meetings in the past and it just wasn’t for me. There just had to be a better way. I tired anything and everything to stay sober and I thought that sitting around with a bunch of losers was certainly not the answer. I never found that better way and in truth had I not got here by accident I'd either be dead or still looking. To be honest I can stomach neither.

I realized that those losers had something that I didn’t, that they had some secret. In the end I wanted to know what it was. Today I’m happy to be part of the losing team.

All Good Things,

[bugsworth]

Treasure, I find it amusing that you feel your wife knows more about the big book than most people in aa. Maybe she should be your sponsor....

I know this may be a little off topic but.....your attitude and people skills really suck!!!
Your brand of sobriety is so rare in the rooms because no one wants it.

You say...... "However like Jim and yourself pointed out the ones that are less desperate don’t seem to make it in AA and if they do make it they end up with a home grown versions of the 12 steps and start killing others that come into the program."

If I were you I would stop pointing your finger at others....there isn't a doubt in my mind that you have the potential to harm many more than you help. Killing someone is extreme, but in your case I can see it happening.

Your arrogance reeks! I am not sure who appointed you an aa god, but your doing a lousy job. I think you still have alot of work to do on yourself, BEFORE you start preaching to others.

nuff said....