Cross Talk?

[Treasure2Find]

I was wondering how people feel about cross talk.

I would have to say that I have been attending this one mtg. everyday for about 6 months. During that time I got to know people and they got to know me. There was this one girl who had been sober a while I’m thinking a year or two. I forget what the topic was but her turn came around and she started sharing about not being able to be around booze. This girl went on for a while. She went into how she won’t go into restaurants that serve, be around people who drink, etc, etc. I’m listening to her and she started talking about how she had been single for years and really wanted someone in her life and then she finally met Mr. Right. This guy was an architect, single father, owned his own home, business, was a social drinker. She said that because she was in recovery she had to leave this guy. From what she said he had a glass of wine or two at dinner every night and she couldn’t stand it.

My turn came around and with all my experience and vast knowledge of the BB. I made quote’s from the Big Book and made reference that I have to meet alcohol head on if I cant I still have the mind of an alcoholic and there is something wrong with my spiritual nature. You know what it says, I don’t avoid alcohol Etc, Etc, Etc……

Out of the corner of my eye I saw this girl turn three different shades of white. I have not seen this girl at another mtg. since. I went from seeing her everyday to not seeing her at all. I mean I didn’t make reference to her and I used I statements but from the look on her face she knew what I was talking about and who it was directed to. Do you think this was the right thing to do? Everyday at meetings I see this, someone will share that they are having a hard time putting down the drink next thing they know is they have a BB shoved in their face. There you can’t drink with that BB in your mouth. Doesn't this fall in with I don’t have the right to save myself at someone else’s expense.

I say a lot of things that are wrong or not in accordance with AA but there’s always seems to be someone saving themselves at my expense. The other day I said something about the police (nothing bad) and someone got all self righteous saying the police are our friends. Well tell me something I already don’t know but go ahead and puff your chest just the same…

[mike_mass]

She probably was looking for advice but may have been turned off by your approach. Why don't you get to know her a little better so that she trusts you enough to get your input outside of the meeting?

In general, I have found it is not helpful to give advice at meetings after another has shared. I have seen people react all the way from just smirking to threatening bodily harm to the advice-giver. Alcoholics and addicts are very sensitive people, they want help but are many times unwilling to receive it on another's term (if you ever took care of a toddler, you may know what I am talking about). Best to build a relationship first before dispensing advice.

[Sugah]

We suggest to the newcomer that she or he try to relate rather than compare. I think that goes for us folks who've been around a little while, too. When I share in response to someone else's share (which I don't consider cross talk, unless I'm interrupting, or giving advice, or trying to have a two-way conversation at the expense of the rest of the meeting), I try to remember that if I can't find a point in their share where I can relate, I probably don't have any business offering my experience. Once I can say, "Yes, I've felt/thought that way before," then I can offer, by way of the steps, how things changed for the better for me. I would have had no problem relating to that fear of alcohol in the woman's share. I also have some experience to draw on to support the passage in the Big Book you pointed out.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I don't believe in preaching to anyone, though at the same time, if my motives are right and I'm being honest, I'm not responsible for the reaction of anyone else to what I've come to know as the truth. At a year sober, she's either getting better and can take what you said as something meant to help her (or, likewise, pronounce it bullshit and not applicable to her, if she feels that way) or she's not getting better and has some work to do in the willingness department.

Around here, with few exceptions, there are no islands of sobriety. We're all in this thing together, love each other, and try to help each other through the rough spots. Hopefully, if your share bothered her, she's got a sponsor who will help her put it in perspective.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[Tazman53]

T2F it may have been better to have spoken to her one on one and suggest she discuss this with her sponsor and see what she needs to work on. Some people have no problem having stuff like that pointed out to them in front of everyone else because they are furth enough along in their program to realize that what is being said to help them could benefit others.

I try, not always successfully to share a soultion I have found that goes with the topic at hand and not address something specifically some one else has said unless they are asking for others experience with the same problem.

Trust me I have put my foot in my mouth and making amends right after the meeting to keep down any resentments.

[Cathy31]

Taz gives some great advice - further, you get her number if she was a regular at this group her number should be available.Bear in mind it could have absolutely nothing to do with you...and I also don't think it was cross talk per se... I think it's always good to share excerpts from big boojk it's not like you're saying I"M saying this, you're saying the program says this and i thin that's very helpful....

let us know what happens, and if you can't find her let it go esp as your intentions were good.

cathy31
x

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by Treasure2Find

I forget what the topic was but ............
My turn came around and with all my experience and vast knowledge of the BB...............

I mean I didn’t make reference to her and I used I statements but ................


I say a lot of things that are wrong or not in accordance with AA but.............

there always seems to be someone saving themselves at my expense. …

My sponsor calls it "taking MY own inventory AT others". I have learned that I am trapped by every word that follows "but" and "because", as a great rationalizer of trying to exert MY will not God's. Hope you find your answer and peace.

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by miss communicat

My sponsor calls it "taking MY own inventory AT others". I have learned that I am trapped by every word that follows "but" and "because", as a great rationalizer of trying to exert MY will not God's. Hope you find your answer and peace.

I like the saying..."there's a lot about him I don't like about myself"...

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by mike_mass

I like the saying..."there's a lot about him I don't like about myself"...

LOL Brilliant!

[Treasure2Find]

The meeting I just went to was a Big Book discussion mtg. Well today’s chapter was Dr. Bob’s Nightmare. You know I’ve never read his story or if I have I didn’t remember or it didn’t sink in until today. Well this girl in question your right I don’t know if she hasn’t returned as a result of something I said. That would be rather self centered on my part and I don’t think that but the look on her face was pretty drastic. So who knows the group doesn’t keep records.

However Dr. Bob struggled with the obsession for 2.5 years and never had a spiritual experience. So this woman I mentioned has been doing everything right for a couple of years and is still struggling and right off the bat I think she is doing something wrong. Knowledge is power and in this case I had no power, had no knowledge. Now I read Bob’s story and realize some people just have it tougher than others and again I don’t have a Monopoly on anything. I see it here and at meetings everyday, someone doesn’t say the right thing and they get blasted, corrected, or BB beaten and I am one of the biggest culprits. I’ve learned a valuable lesson today if I’m going to say something am I saying something to bolster my own ego or am I really trying to be helpful and do I really know what I'm talking about.

This chapter was really good; I go to meetings all the time and listen to people cry about not having a spiritual experience or ridicule those who have had them. Here it is in Black and White Bob didn’t have one and not only did he not have one he white knuckled it for almost three years. The next time I see someone struggling after various lengths I sure am not going to give them the book chances are they may know it better than I…..

[Cathy31]

(((Treasure))) Remember if you've got the right motives, you probably got it right!

As Carol says, forward we go, side by side!

Cathy31
x

[Treasure2Find]

Thanks Cathy,
Forward we go, side by side. I think I might get that Tattooed on something.......

[REZ]

I try to share my experience and not give advice. I fell in love with a woman who is a social drink and we have been married for 18 years. I have been sober for 23 years. Her drinking never really bothered me, though we have developed some ways of dealing with it. For instance, she keeps alcohol stashed away from me, so I don't have to look it and think about it. If we are at a party where I am the only one not drinking, she asks if it is okay with me if she drinks. When we go out to dinner she asks if it is okay with me if she has a drink. Basically, she is very considerate of me and I try to be considerate of her. It has worked out fine.

[Treasure2Find]

You know what Rez that was my exact thought when mentioning the BB at the mtg. My wife can drink if she wants I'm the one with the problem not her. In fact she has mentioned to me that she would like to collect wine. Who cares right, I wanted to help but what I now know is people are all at different levels. Thanks for sharing….

[AndrewBeen]

I don't think I will ever not have the mind of an alcoholic, because I am one. It's true that if proximity to alcohol threatens my sobriety then I have some real work to do. I guess I do.

I can be around others drinking without urges. I do have a problem with having booze in the house however as I was a solitary drinker for the most part.

[Sugah]

Originally Posted by Treasure2Find

she has mentioned to me that she would like to collect wine

You know, there are hobbies that others have that I understand, even if I can't relate to the enjoyment in them, but this one, with my alcoholic mind, seems so damned funny! In collecting coins or antiques, one would expect the value to go up over time, but collect wine?? You'd actually have to have it around for awhile so that could happen, right?

Thanks for the chuckle, Taz.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by Sugah

In collecting coins or antiques, one would expect the value to go up over time, but collect wine?? You'd actually have to have it around for awhile so that could happen, right?


Peace & Love,
Sugah

Great insight! Sorry to hijack T2F's thread momentarily..... I have some family members, non A's, who are in the wine storage business. Me, i wouldn't be caught dead with any wine in storage. Or, money, for that matter. Once I have any wine, all the wine in the world is fair game and justification for spending all the money in the world getting more, more, more.

My collections these days are slightly less sensate, and waay safer. like books, music, friends, and philosophies....

back to the original thread topic. Was it Cross-Talk???

[Treasure2Find]

See this is what this whole Thread is about and you got sucked right in.

You don’t like the idea of collecting wine, well I like it just fine. I’m sorry you’re still sick but I like the idea of her feeling good about what she wants to do. It's not my Wine collection it’s my wife’s collection, as in it doesn’t belong to me. I have the alcohol problem not her, plus you know what I have to go with the BB on this one. More people should read it.

BB PG 101-102
Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed. Many of us keep liquor in our homes. We often need it to carry green recruits through a severe hangover. Some of us still serve it to our friends provided they are not alcoholic. But some of us think we should not serve liquor to anyone. We feel that each family, in the light of their own circumstances, ought to decide for themselves.

[Sugah]

Pssst...Treasure. I was talking about relating to it myself. I never said it wasn't a fine hobby, if she chooses, for Taz's wife. It's just not at the top of my list of new hobbies as a sober alcoholic!

I do not debate, but I do feel the sting, momentarily, of what I consider a hostile response. I'm sure I'm no sicker than you are, and yes, I agree, more people within the rooms of AA should read the Big Book, for that's where the program can be found. That's why I never leave the house without the small version in my purse, and I don't think there's a room in my house, including the bathroom, that doesn't have a Big Book in it. And I live in a big house.

There's another book, one intended to expand upon the instructions in the Big Book, called the 12&12. In it, there's a little story about crusading which ends with something called Rule #62 -- don't take yourself too damned seriously.

Back on topic, "cross talk," or rather the request that there be none, is mentioned in the chair's opening remarks of several meetings I attend -- and it's the result of a group conscience decision.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[miss communicat]

[quote=Treasure2Find;1624828]See this is what this whole Thread is about and you got sucked right in.

You don’t like the idea of collecting wine, well I like it just fine. I’m sorry you’re still sick, but.................QUOTE]

Sorry T2F;

I did not say I don't like the idea of anyone collecting wine. I love the idea, for those it makes happy. Its not a good idea for me because I'd drink the whole collection, so, I do not collect wine.

Seems sane enough to me.

Mind you, I do not feel you are in any position to diagnose me, or for that matter, anyone in terms of sickness or wellness. Take heed.

[Treasure2Find]

What you did is exactly like what I did to that woman who doesnt go to my meetings anymore.

See I value the opinions of others and when I say my wife wants to collect wine everyone goes up in arms, unless I ask shouldnt you value my opinion? This woman at the mtg couldnt be around booze and I felt the need to say I'm sorry but I have no issue with being around booze as a matter a fact if I cant meet these conditions my spiritual condition is off. She never comes back to the mtg. How is that being helpfull to others?

BB pg 19-20
Most of us sense that real tolerance of other people´s shortcomings and viewpoints and a respect for their opinions are attitudes which make us more useful to others. Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs.

See I just wanted to point out that I didnt ask you what your opinion was in regards to having wine in the house. Why did you feel the need to give it to me, what purpose did it serve? Third step, we tried to arange the lights the ballet the sceanery, how were you helping my needs?

Then you threaten me and tell me to take heed(I'm not offended)but do you see what I'm driving at. You treaspass on the information I put out there and tell me what you do. Well not so sure I know you well enough to ask you, so why would you tell me. Keep in mind there is no emotion with email ok, I'm just talking here.

[bugsworth]

Treasure, The Big Book certainly does say a lot, and it can be used in a wide variety of ways to make points.

The following would apply at this time……

Selfishness -- self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of your troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, you step on the toes of your fellows and they retaliate. ...
... the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, pages 61-62.

More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world he presents his stage character.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, page 73.

Thus blinded by prideful self-confidence, we were apt to play the big shot.
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 92.

... in A.A. we slowly learned that something had to be done about our vengeful resentments, self-pity, and unwarranted pride.
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 47.

...we reluctantly come to grips with those serious character flaws that made problem drinkers of us in the first place...
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 73.

We "constructively criticized" someone who needed it, when our real motive was to win a useless argument. Or, the person concerned not being present, we thought we were helping others to understand him, when in actuality our true motive was to feel superior by pulling him down. We sometimes hurt those we love because they need to be "taught a lesson," when we really want to punish. We were depressed and complained we felt bad, when in fact we were mainly asking for sympathy and attention. This odd trait of mind and emotion, this perverse wish to hide a bad motive underneath a good one, permeates human affairs from top to bottom. This subtle and elusive kind of self-righteousness can underlie the smallest act or thought.
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, pages 94-95.


Hopefully this will materialize in your life soon…..

Even so has God restored us all to our right minds.
The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William G. Wilson, page 57.