Sponsorship after the 12 steps?

[Treasure2Find]

I went thought the steps with a sponsor many years ago. During this time I had a spiritual experience and the obsession was removed. Years later we went our separate ways.

I figured it wouldn’t hurt to get someone else to have around someone to take my temp from time to time. I went through his 12 step program, much different than the first time but still I gained experience the benefited from it.

However at this time I'm not sure the relationship is working out. Bill Wilson from what I have read has claim to Ebby as his sponsor. Well Ebby dies of alcoholism and Bill never got another sponsor. Does anyone know why Bill didn’t get another sponsor?

Do I need a sponsor today now that the obsession has been removed, now that I have worked the steps in my life?

Personally I am not going to give up praying now that the obsession has been removed but how important is sponsorship now that the obsession has been removed?

[Music]

It's my understanding that Bill and Dr. Bob sponsored each other. I've been sober quite a while and I have a sponsor. I still call him a couple times a week and if I don't, he calls me. I have sponsor because I need to be accountable to someone who knows me as an alcoholic. In my opinion, everyone should have a sponsor and should work the steps with that sponsor, especially the fourth and fifth so that the sponsor knows who he's dealing with. Of course, if my ego creeps back in, and I think I can handle things by myself, I probably wouldn't have a need, or see any need to have a sponsor, or go to meetings for that matter, or even to continue to work the steps. Oh hell, let's go have a drink and celebrate, now that I've learned enough to do it myself......LOL!

[Treasure2Find]

Ya it was my understanding that Ebby was Bills sponsor. I there anyone who is clear on this? It's very important to me.....

[Fenian_Man]

Treasure,

As I recall, Bill referred to Ebby as his sponsor because of the famous talk in Bill's kitchen. It never seemed to me that the relationship was of the sort that most of us understand it now.

Best,

FM

[Treasure2Find]

I just found a great picture of Ebby and Bill with an origional print and it reads Alcoholics Annomous co founder Bill Wilson pictured with his "Sponsor" Edwin Ebby. T Ebby who brought the Oxford Group Movement to Bill.

The reason I ask is why do I need another sponsor, is it writen somewhere. Is there vaild proof? I mean lets say Bob was Bills sponsor, Bob died years before Bill. Who did Bill get as another sponsor after Bob. I can see the transition Ebby, to Bob, to WHO?

Who says I need to get another sponsor, Gregg S. was the man that led me through the steps. Bill Wilson didn’t go running out the door when Bob died to get someone else, he simply worked with others as stated in chapter 7. Nothing will ensure immunity from alcohol like constant work with another alcoholic.

Can someone give me some facts about another sponsor, something thats not mythical?

[bballdad]

Ebby got drunk several times since his visit to Bill W...but Bill still respected him enought to call him his sponser..sometimes the person who carried the program to you was called you`re sponser...

I have a sponser and a co-sponser who is mainly service related help ...I intend to never go without a sponser..there`s more to sobriety than having the obsession removed.That is just the bare bones beginning as far as I am concerned.
These golden oldtimers have much to give,and many of them want to give it.Start talking with them about the many things in AA..you will understand more as time rolls along...Us younger alcoholics have much to learn if we wish to be openminded.

AA and the spiritual life has many treasures and gems in it and if we follow the wise advice of some of those wise oldtimers,we will discover them..I get out what I put in..

at last years world conference,Tom I said there are 2 kinds of alcoholics..one who just does enought to stay sober,and thats just what they get.Some even make it to oldtimers status...sometimes you have to walk on eggshells around them or they go off and want to fuss,etc because they have plenty of time..after all,they are not doing anything but sitting in a meeting once a week......
and then there are those AA`s who are allways busy doing AA,carring the message to anywhere they can,and getting involved in all areas of AA from New York down to your home group..


we do have a choice

as for me,I want be a number two,I want to milk this thing for all the good life,the hope,the joy I can get out of it and pass it on to whoever wants it..

[Treasure2Find]

My point is that I'm tired of living a lie or is it a lie who knows anymore. Do I need another sponsor or not? Do I go through the steps in the BB or the 12 and 12 or both? Do I stand on my head, or sit on my ass, do I sit in front at mtgs, do I not attend them at all. I've been begging God to stay sober since May 19, 1999; the obsession has been removed do I continue to beg? Do you understand my point?

I'm tired of 100 different takes on what I should or shouldn’t do. When I ask if I need another sponsor I want concrete proof this is what I should do. Not some watered down solution that I think might be right. When I say this I mean no disrespect to anyone but I would like some answers.

What I have done since 99 has worked and it great and I'm not changing it. I had to get a new sponsor and we went through the steps completely different from the way I did them in 99 and I just not sure if getting another sponsor is the right thing to do.

[nandm]

I would suggest getting another sponsor. For several reasons:
* Having someone handy that can provide guidance never is a bad thing
* My current sponsor believes in applying the Steps in every aspect, every problem in my life as they come up. Having her for a sponsor means that if I forget to apply the steps to a problem and call her she directs me back to the first step "am I powerless over this situation, is it making my life unmanageable (even if it is just taking time out of my life). Then she helps me apply each step through the problem. Doing this has changed my life immensely. It has allowed me a new freedom I did not have in sobriety prior to applying the steps to all of my life.
* When sponsoring people it is always good to have a sponsor yourself as this gives you a resource person for direction when you are unsure of something
* When going through a tough time, having a sponsor can be an asset as it allows you someone to discuss those problems and feelings with rather than take them to a meeting and dump them. The sponsor can help guide you to finding solutions.

Hope you are able to find the answers you are seeking.

[CarolD]

As you apparently are having personal difficulties
Yes! You do need a sponsor to guide
you on using the steps to resolving them.

JMO

[Rusty Zipper]

"ism"

i sponser myself!


t2f, IMO

its good to have someone with a understanding of the steps, life, and recovery to bounce things off of... and give good level headed advice...

remember...

left to our own devices!... ut-oh!

good wishes t2f

rz

ps, if one has to do the steps a thousand times, and brother... im'a add'n up the times...

so what!

were spozed to work them on a daily basis anyway...

[Treasure2Find]

Carol you don’t know me and any personal difficulties I may or may not be having are not any of your concern. I simply asked about sponsorship after the 12 steps thank you?

I lost my sponsor in 2001, this sponsor took me through the steps or Carol as you said guilded me with the steps. Does anyone know if I need a sponsor after having worked the 12 steps? I do have someone else and was guided through the steps again but I'm thinking if Bill didn’t need a sponsor why do I. After Bob died there is no record of someone new stepping up to the plate? I'm sure if Bill had a sponsor it would have been documented somewhere.

[Rusty Zipper]

t2f, the BB says to do a anual housecleaning... why wait?

will ask about bill at my thurs night step study...

i'm curious also

think i know the anwser tho...

get, or keep a sponser the thumper will say...

[bugsworth]

T2F, I don't believe, and I may be wrong, that Ebby was Bill's sponsor, he was the man that introduced Bill to the Oxford Group. In the beginning of aa there were no sponsors. That is why they aren't mentioned in the bb.

It will be hard to get a concrete answer...everyone is different.

You seem to be distressed over this situation, so it may be wise to reach out for help...Is it possible to get in touch with one of your old sponsors, maybe run this by them?

[NoelleR]

Since everybody so far seems to be on the 'yes' side, let me be the voice of opposition.....jes a tech.... (o:

Oh, and bugsworth..... "In the beginning of aa there were no sponsors." They most assuredly did have sponsors, but not as we see them today. One didn't even get to AA without a sponsor bringing them in---it truly was an anonymous organization back then.....

Now....to have a sponsor, or keep a sponsor,,,,,or, or, or.....Even though most folks will tell you that a sponsor is to help guide you through the steps, when I read the 'sponsorship' pamphlet it never mentions this; it only mentions how sponsors are for newcomers.....hmmmmm

I can only give you my ESH. I got a sponsor, when I was new to the program, and she helped my work my way through the steps, after which she became a part of my support group, and my friend. Today, if I felt I needed a grounded one-person support for something in my life (recovery related), then I surely would get a sponsor, if only to help put into perspective the plethora of information/suggestions I'd be getting from my diverse support group. However, so far I have been doing great with just my loyal support group around me.....

In other words, Treasure2Find, what I'm saying is that it's personal and individualistic....

Good luck with your quest.


NoelleR

[jimhere]

I guess in this area, it is, to quote the title of another thread "Different strokes for different folks."

I believe in sponsorship. I don't think it is a "pedigree" or anything like that, but I come from a lineage of sponsorship that can traced right back to Dr. Bob. Not that it makes me special, but I believe it is nice to know where you come from.

I had the same sponsor for the first ten and a half years I was sober. A few years before that, he & I had began to drift apart. Or I should say he was drifting away. I didn't know it at the time, but he had really stopped doing the deal. After a surgery he got strung out on pain killers and ended up drinking at seventeen years of sobriety. So I basically was sponsorless for several years. I stayed active in the process by sponsoring others. That is still the main focus.

At about twelve years of sobriety I suffered a spiritual crisis and went to a man that had sobriety I respected and asked him to take me through the steps. Periodically thoughtout my recovery I have went to someone other than my sponsor and asked them take me through the steps. Well, anyway, this guy must have thought I asked him to run my life. I do give spiritual license to certain people to ask questions and pose considerations, but not to do my thinking for me. Needless to say, I did not get far with this man.

At other times I have went outside of AA to a teacher or mentor for spiritual guidance. A true teacher knows his job is not to run the student's life, but to guide him along the way. When I ask for this kind of help I am obedient to the direction given. A true spiritual friend affirms without falsity and corrects without wounding.

Currrently I have a sponsor. The conscience of the group I belong to now is that in order to do service in the group, you must have a sponsor in the group and have taken the steps with that sponsor. While I respect the man, I must admit I am having some difficulty with this man's approach and the rigidity of his style. I think I will let him go after the step process is finished.

Another activity I am involved in is Steel On Steel. Taken from Proverbs "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Every other Wednesday I get together with three other men and we practice rigourous honesty about where we are at in every area of our lives. We give one another license to ask questions and pose considerations, with love as our guide. I have found this activity very beneficial and would recommend it to anyone who is serious about spiritual growth.

Finally, I am accountable to the people I sponsor. I believe that at some point, if we have been thorough about the process, we are given a new mind, one that we can trust. I hear it said that the mind is a dangerous place to go into alone and not to trust it. That is contrary to our book. After the Fifth Step a change takes place. A person that was powerless and couldn't manage their life is given power to manage their lives along certain lines all they wish.

At the Sixth Step, it tells me that if I have been able to answer the questions on page 75, that if I can answer these questions to MY satisfaction, not my sponsor's that I am ready for Step Six. In the inventory, it says that while counsel with others is desirable, in the end I let my conscience be the guide. At Step Ten I have been restored to sanity. I can use my will along certain lines all I wish. Step Eleven says that God gave me a brain to use and I can trust my thinking when it is on a higher plane. I come to rely on intuitive thought, even I am not inspired all the time and make mistakes.

Goes contrary to the idea that I'm always going to need a sponsor to do my thinking for me, don't you think. But I do know that going it alone in spiritual matters can be dangerous, so I have placed myself in a position of accountability to a handful of people.
Jim

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by bugsworth

T2F, I don't believe, and I may be wrong, that Ebby was Bill's sponsor, he was the man that introduced Bill to the Oxford Group. In the beginning of aa there were no sponsors. That is why they aren't mentioned in the bb.

It will be hard to get a concrete answer...everyone is different.

You seem to be distressed over this situation, so it may be wise to reach out for help...Is it possible to get in touch with one of your old sponsors, maybe run this by them?

For the record Bill did call Ebby his sponsor, right up to the time of Ebby's death. Although I think in truth that Bill was more Ebby's enabler than anything else that could be said about their relationship.

[bugsworth]

I am sure you are right Jim. I think maybe I was going to far back in the time line when I spoke about sponsors. Certainly I probably don't know half of what you have forgotten!! LOL Thanks!

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by bugsworth

I am sure you are right Jim. I think maybe I was going to far back in the time line when I spoke about sponsors. Certainly I probably don't know half of what you have forgotten!! LOL Thanks!

I just happen to be a history buff, so it is only natural that I'm fascinated by AA history. A good little book, if you are interested is called "Ebby, The Man Who Sponsored Bill W." It is by Mel B., a long-time sober AA and archivist and historian from Toledo. I think it is published by Hazelden.

[bugsworth]

Thanks I'll be sure to check it out!

[Treasure2Find]

Well Jim I have to say I was a little pissed off at you for what you said in my thread about not having to ask god for help with your alcoholism anymore. I personally feel that’s the wrong message to send out but you are entitled to work your program any way you choose. What I have is a daily reprieve contingent upon the maintence of my spiritual condition. My spiritual condition requires me to beg god everyday because without freedom from this obsession why would I ask for my thoughts to be divorced from self pity dishonest and self seeking motives if the obsession isn’t removed the hell with everything. So the first thing I ask for is the ability to stay sober, the obsession is gone but I dont think it hurts to keep asking

However after reading your posts here, there is a lot to be learned and I am sorry for not being more opened minded. At this point It's my decision to have a sponsor or not. Putting reliance upon anything but god is simply a waste of time. Like you I have a sponsor that I just don’t connect with. Your legacy goes back to Dr Bob although I can not trace my legacy to either one of the founders I can trace it back to Akron. I do feel pretty good about that because my current sponsor and half the people I know in AA can not do that. My current sponsor has me reading the BB the 12/12 and it’s all over the place I go from one chapter to the next, front to the back, read this paragraph, and then go to this one. My first sponsor didn’t hold my hand while I read the BB, he laid out the tools and I picked them up. When I had questions he answered them and it was that simple. I'm thankful I have this new sponsor and I'm thankful for his time and step work but as I said it’s all over the place and I could never bring someone through the steps like he did with me. I wouldn’t even know where to start LOL….

Currently I don’t know what to look for in a sponsor. I don’t know what I need from someone else at this point except friendship. When I have problems today I don’t call him, I pray, meditate and use the steps. My first sponsor took me through the steps period and when I was done he said he would always be a phone call away but he had others to work with. I have to tell you I worked with him for years and I would have taken a bullet for him, he will always be my sponsor.

[kevin 311]

just wanted to say I appreciate the discussion in this thread

thanks!

I'm considering which home group and which sponsor these days -- spoiled for choice vibe-wise, so I'm going to give it a little time before deciding

[Treasure2Find]

Thanks Kevin,

When I first came in to AA I got a sponsor who's only job was to take me through the steps and show me around AA. Today it's a bit different for me, I've gone through the steps and dont need someone for that anymore. Good luck with your search and may god be with you.

All Good Things,