Different stokes for different folks?

[nathanemile]

I wasn't sure where to post this.
I know a guy who's 14 years sober and I asked him once about the steps and he says he didn't do all of of them; said different stokes for different folks.
I don't understand how he didn't do all the step and lasted 14 years. He take sobriety very seriously and he's a respectable person, but how was he able to do it?

[CarolD]

Welcome!


As your post is about AA I moved it over
so more AA members will see it.

[CarolD]

Hmm....
I am glad he is sober and I think he is the only
person who could explain his comment.

For me....the AA Steps are a guideline for living.

Are you newly sober?
If so...I suggest you use all the tools available for recovery.

Please keep posting with us....

[Tazman53]

I know folks in AA who have not even worked a single step formerly with many years of sobriety, how do they do it? I do not know, I know some of them have gone to an awful lot of step meetings and work shops so in a way they have done them, others are able to draw upon the ESH of others around them, the main thing they all have in common is they go to a LOT of meetings.

My opinion is that the steps lead us to the ability to live life on lifes terms and that does not mean being in a meeting every night for the rest of my life, I have been through the steps entirely with my sponsor as they are spelled out in the BB, I am taking my sponsee through the steps as they are written in the BB, I still need/enjoy meetings, but I no longer need a meeting or 2 every day, I go to a minimum of 4 a week right now for 3 reasons:

1. To drink in the ESH of others.
2. To Share my ESH with others.
3. To make myself available to others seeking help or sponsorship.

Different strokes for different folks...... I agree, but not doing the steps is not my stroke, I would have never stayed sober with out the steps, I would not be able to live life on lifes terms with out the steps, that is me.

Yes it can be done without the steps, but if I was new in the program and knew that the vast majority of people with long term happy sobriety in the program have worked the steps would I be willing to not work them and hope that I am among the exceptons who stayed sober without them? I think not.

To me not working the steps is not facing my problems head on and dealing with them.

[Sugah]

I'd be curious to know which he passed up.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

[sugErspun]

Not everyone you meet in AA is alcoholic, let alone there to get and stay sober.

The fellowship is great - you can meet a lot of people, get jobs, meet a woman/man, etc etc. If someone has not drank for that long without working the steps, I would venture to say that he is not alcoholic. Or, God came down like a lightning bolt and cured him- but even then you would think he would do the steps (amends, daily prayer, inventory, surrender).

That is just my opinion though. Sounds like poison, be careful.

Maybe they should start a no-step AA group. Oh wait, that wouldn't be AA since AA is the steps and the steps are AA.

[mike_mass]

It's possible he is working the steps piecemeal. I don't know any one way they are done.

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Maybe they should start a no-step AA group. Oh wait, that wouldn't be AA since AA is the steps and the steps are AA.

The AA Preamble

ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self-supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy; neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.

Nothing in there about the steps...I know plenty of people who have stayed sober without them. Personally, I have worked them into my life as I see applicable.

[sugErspun]

Alcoholics Anonymous - Foreward to the Second Edition pg xvii
(this is after they released to book in wide publication, a little of what happened after the book was published)

"The fledgling society, which had been nameless, now began to be called Alcoholics Anonymous, from the title of its own book."

The society (fellowship) tooks it's name from the title of it's own book. So, using logic that would tell me, the message is in the book. I look at the book and it says (Foreward to the First Edition page xiii):

"To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."

So the main purpose of AA, since it took it's name from a book, it to show other alcoholics precisely how to recover. Those are the steps and the book does them in order.

That preamble isn't found in my book.

[1963comet]

I know five people that have stayed sober without AA. I myself took a different route. But I enjoy this sight and am finding it helpful.

But not to happy that some people think AA is the only way. And that I would fail because I did not get sober in AA.

My HP is with me always, not just at a meeting. Been sober seven years, so I am doing something right. So, I do believe there are different strokes. What ever keeps a person sober is a GOOD thing.

[sugErspun]

I agree Comet, I don't claim nor think that AA should claim to be the only answer.

Why someone who has become sober through some other method than through the twelve steps of AA would come to AA meetings and tell people that you can pick and choose how you want to work this program causes more harm than it does good.

The AA program of recovery is in the first 164 pages of the book.

Beware of that long-term sober person at your AA meeting who says you don't have to work the steps, read the book, get a sponsor, carry the message (do they even have a message other than selfishness = 'I did it, me.'). Chances are they are not alcoholic, and have a much deeper illness.

[1963comet]

nathanemile was asking if it was possable to recover without AA. I have just seen it work for people. I am not here to judge or take some ones personal inventory.

[nolonger]

Seems like there are many routes to sobriety. He seems to have a very successful one. That's great.

("Alcoholism is a condition that can only be cured by fundamentalist AA. If you recovered some other way, you were never an alcoholic." is a delightful example of nonsensical, circular reasoning.)

[Treasure2Find]

I know when I came to AA I had $1000 a day habit. I used drugs, alcohol, pills, powder, and opiates. I hit bottom, I got a sponsor and started living the steps. I wish the world would join me on this journey but there are many roads.

Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz had a choice of roads. The scarecrow suggested both roads, he said they were both very nice. I believe all roads would have taken Dorothy to the Emerald City and the Wizard of OZ.

I have seen many people go down AA’s road and die yet others make it. I have seen people go down other roads and die and yet others make it. Personally it’s none of my business what recovery program any of you choose. I have a solution that works and it involves 12 steps. If someone wants the solution they are welcome to it.

Happy New Year SR

[nandm]

Big Book page 164 sentance 5-6

Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little.

AA has and continues to work for many people. It also happens to be the only recovery program that I found worked for me. To think that AA has all the answers and is the only path to sobriety is to discount the fact that there were people prior to AA who did get sober and there are people today who do get sober without AA. Who am I to judge the quality of their sobriety. I do not walk in their shoes or live their life. I firmly believe that the Steps and Principles of AA provide a wonderful foundation and structure for living life sober. I am grateful that I was led to the program of AA and would not trade it for any other. I needed the Steps and Principles to put me on a path of gratitude, service, and compassion. I believe the program of AA has helped me to become a better person. But I do accept that just because someone does not use the program of AA to get sober it does not mean they are any less moral or just. I have met people in AA who did not understand gratitude, service, compassion, or simple moral values. Granted they were people who did not apply the Principles and Steps in their daily lives.

AA is a program of attraction rather than promotion. Intolerance and self-rightousness is definately not attractive. In fact those are qualities that drove me from organized religion (not that all people in organized religions possess those qualities). It helps me to keep in mind the quote from page 84, sentance 23.

Love and tolerance of others is our code.

Just my pennies worth of thoughts........now I want my penny..........oh, no one said "penny for your thoughts" did they. Ok then, you get my thoughts for free........

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Well, my partner was in AA for years, worked the steps etc. It wasn't until I decided to go to AA, and we found a great group with lots of sobriety who work the steps as written in the BB, that she realized that there were some things that her first sponsor didn't do by the book. Important stuff. She stayed sober all those years,yes, but she's in a much better place now from doing the work; emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

I think that there is not only one way. This way that I'm taking (AA, found a sponsor, working the steps as written in the BB) has worked like gangbusters for me, so that is what I share with folks.

I'd ask this man how he did it!

Karen

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Alcoholics Anonymous - That preamble isn't found in my book.

It doesn't matter whether that preamble is found in your book. It's the preamble...tradition three...only requirement for membership is a desire to stop driking.

[jimhere]

I won't say much on this. It has pretty well been said.

I will refer you to a piece called Gresham's Law & Alcoholics Anonymous. The author describes really well what has been an ever growing trend ever since the early 40's.

Or go to the Primary Purpose Group's website and click on the recommended reading link. I think you can find Gresham's Law as a pdf file there. There are a couple of other well written pieces on that site. One is called "What Happened?" and the other is "Beware Hard drinkers and Fakers Inside."

One thing that saddens me is when I hear some one say that there are as many ways to work the program as there are people in it. If that is true what is there to join us?
Jim

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by sugErspun

Beware of that long-term sober person at your AA meeting who says you don't have to work the steps, read the book, get a sponsor, carry the message (do they even have a message other than selfishness = 'I did it, me.'). Chances are they are not alcoholic, and have a much deeper illness.

There are different degress of alcoholism...not good to generalize.

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by mike_mass

It doesn't matter whether that preamble is found in your book. It's the preamble...tradition three...only requirement for membership is a desire to stop driking.

The pre- amble used in most meetings originated in The GrapeVine. Which pretty much says it all, as what I read in The GV is reflective of the fellowship. I guess it truly is our meeting in print.
Jim

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by nolonger

Seems like there are many routes to sobriety. He seems to have a very successful one. That's great.

("Alcoholism is a condition that can only be cured by fundamentalist AA. If you recovered some other way, you were never an alcoholic." is a delightful example of nonsensical, circular reasoning.)

I have stated before that I don't believe that there is a right way or a wrong way. Perhaps there is a best way for some of us. That would be the way laid out almost seventy years ago by our early members, which is found in a book called Alcoholics Anonymous. But it's not the only way. It has been the only way that I have found.

To paraphrase the second forward: "We have no monopoly on recovery from alcoholism..." I know a man sober a long time. We've talked and we can match drunkalogues. When I talk about alcoholism, he knows what I'm talking about. Over twenty years ago he reached the end of his road and gave up. He went to a few AA meetings and found AA to not be for him. So he went to a fundamental church and in desperation answered the altar call and gave his life to God as he then understood God-Jesus Christ. He's been sober ever since and seems content. His story is the same as mine. Alcohol brought him to surrender, he gave his life to God, and has been living the surrendered life ever since, a life of prayer and service.

Another example. There is a woman here in town who has been sober a year or two longer than me. I have heard her say that she has never even cracked the book. I used to be at odds with her until one day at a meeting I got it. I had told my story, and a big part of my story is about how I couldn't being sober years before I started drinking, the seperation and loneliness that goes along with extreme self-centeredness. And about how the first time alcohol worked, it changed me. It made an outsider and insider and I felt whole and complete with you and within myself. And how from that moment one, I didn't have any choice about the next drink. Well, she said that she couldn't relate to that part of my story. I've heard her story and it certainly seems that she drank alcoholicaly. Here's where I got it: "Whether or not a person can quit on a non-spiritual basis dependes upon the extent that he has lost the power of choice in drink" That is the difference between she & I. Her drinking got bad, she went to AA, liked it and has been sober ever since. She loves the meetings, doesn't seem miserable. She is a nice lady and seems really happy, I saw her today at the post office and we visited a little bit. Maybe she is a hard drinker, I don't know. I do know she loves AA as much as I do. I just hope she doesn't sponsor any real alcoholics.

"Yet it is our great hope that all of those who as of yet found no answer..." I heard a speaker say that alcoholics are born needing an answer. I looked all over for an answer. Tried the church, therapy, abstinence, antabuse, self-help, treatment, you name it. I kept drinking until I ran out of answers and had no place to go. When I showed up here, you had an answer that spoke to my condition. I have a friend in Seattle that says that The Fellowship is for all alcoholics, It is for people that the judge thinks might be alcoholic. It is for people who aren't sure. But what is in the book is for desperate alcoholics.

If you are an alcoholic who hasn't yet found an answer, our hope is that you will find one in the pages of this book. AA doesn't claim to have THE ANSWER, but it has an answer if you haven't found one yet.
Jim