"Suggested as a program of recovery"

[nandm]

Big Book
page 59, sentance 7

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a Program of Recovery

This is a suggested program, not a program of suggestions. We can adopt this way of life if we want or reject it if we feel we know a better way. Adopting some parts of this program and ignoring or evading other parts is unlikely to allow us to experience an entire psychic change. This is not a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life. This is a program of action which if practiced in whole will bring about a vital spiritual awakening that will make our fundamental natures in a way that is indeed miraculous.

Your thoughts, comments?

[Music]

I learned early on that the only reason the word "suggested" was used is because drunks don't like to be told what to do. I was also told that the word "suggestion", no matter what form of the word was used in the context of the Big Book was meant as a "subtle command."

[Rob B]

The AA program of recovery are the steps. The steps produce the psychic change necessary to recover from alcoholism.
Fellowship is great,I know lots of people who "hang out" in AA, have never done the steps, live for discussion meetings, and have just enough information to be dangerous to themselves and others. God bless em if that works for them, I pray they don't sponsor anyone.
If I didn't have a loving God in my life I would be drunk or dead, the steps pointed me to God. It's the great fact for myself and many other alcoholics.

[Tommyh]

suggestions without experience to go with them can be dangerous...good sponsership goes well with suble commands or the 12 steps(suggestions)...and direct orders too

I`m a alcoholic,if it is good for AA,it is probally good for me since I am a member of AA
the steps are a starting point,we do have 24 others points that are good for AA,and myself..
12 traditions
12 concepts
all 36 "points" help me with certain things like sobriety,& relating myself rightly to the world and others ...

[GrouchoTheCat]

When jumping out of an airplane with a parachute on, it is suggested that you pull the rip cord.

Of course, you don't have to...

[miss communicat]

Originally Posted by nandm

This is a suggested program, not a program of suggestions.

exactly.

just like "rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed these steps"..... can be reversed to read "Thoroughly have we seen a person fail who has rarely followed these steps"

[Tommyh]

the big book was published in 1939...and I happened to have a old Websters dict. copyrighted in 1941...one day I came across some words that made me feel kinda funky inside so I got my old dict. and looked them up..come to find out I was wrong in my thinking as to what the definations was.

suggestions was just one of them..from the websters 1941 defination of suggestions

suggest
to introduce indirectly to the mind or thoughts,hint,insinuate,allude to or refer to,
suggestive;
to me sugestions are a starting point..it all starts there..with the 12 steps

[jimhere]

There is another thread going called "Gresham's Law and A.A." In that article, the author threw out the consideration that in compromising and inserting the word suggested, Bill opened a loophole that brought about the three types of A.A.-the weak cup of tea, the medium cup of tea, and the strong cup of tea approaches that the article mentions.

The original lithograph manuscript of the book stated the ABC's this way:

"Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after have been designed to sell you three pertinent ideas:

(a) That you are alcoholic and cannot manage your own life
(b) That no human power can relieve your alcoholism
(c) That God can and will

If you are not convinced of these vital issues, you ought to re read the book to this point or else throw it away."

It has been suggested that in making these compromises that while opening the door wider, Bill also opened the door for the permisive, take-what-you-like-and-leave -the-rest cafeteria style approach that is dominant these days. Much like the short form of the Third Tradition is wide open to interpretation.

Human nature is to follow the heard, to take what seems the easier way, and drunks aren't any different. As the author of Gresham's Law states, "Who wants to drive the stick shift when the model with an automatic is a hundred dollars cheaper?"

He also states the truth that heterdoxy becomes othodoxy, or that the weak way becames the way. That is today's AA. Meetings have become the answer, we throw around cliches and slogans that have lost their meaning, terms like 90 in 90 and drug of choice and I choose not to drink that have no roots in and are totally contradictory to the program have became the language we speak. And alcoholics die in the fellowship for want of what is within their grasp. The head- nodders nod and the heard followers follow like AA lemmings over the cliff of alcoholic death. Heard followers sometimes die the alcoholic death in A.A.

Meanwhile those of us who are strong-cup-of-tea'ers are called thumpers and nazis and accused of being rigid and intolerant. When we speak out we are accused of being critical or controversial, or of even hating AA. The author of Gresham's Law was prophetic.
Jim

[Music]

Originally Posted by jimhere

Meanwhile those of us who are strong-cup-of-tea'ers are called thumpers and nazis and accused of being rigid and intolerant. When we speak out we are accused of being critical or controversial, or of even hating AA. The author of Gresham's Law was prophetic. Jim

Thanks Jim and all for some good comments. I was a weak teaer the whole time I drank because to be one of the strong tears, would have meant that I had to make the commitments necessary to change my behavior. I consider myself a "thumper" and/or an AA nazi and I've been accused of being critical, intolerant and even mean spirited. And that's ok! I'm sober today because I made a commitment almost 31 years ago to never take another drink of alcohol, and I'd do anything I had to do to achieve that end. There's a saying that goes, "I often say things to others that I need to hear." In reading posts here, and talking to people f2f, I often say things that I'd let slip through the cracks and hadn't thought of or said for some time. That's how it works, and why I still go to meetings and call my sponsor a couple times a week. I still do the same things today that I did the very first week I was in the program, because now I want to stay sober even more than back then. I have so much more to lose. I get out of the program, proportionately to what I put into the program, and I hear people from time to time griping about this and that and I still ask them what they've done to change, and one of my favorites is, "how's that working for you?" Yeah, sometimes they get PO'd, but nobody ever said the message would always be smooth around the edges. Sometimes the message is a little pointed, but if the message hurts more than the drinking, maybe the drinking hasn't ended yet.

Merry Christmas to all.

[jimhere]

Thanks Music. It has been the same for me. Merry Christmas.
Jim

[kelsh]

Hi jimhere,

"head nodders nod and the heard followers follow A.A. lemmings over the cliff of alcoholic death"...this is taken out of context but don't think it changes its meaning...I do not remember what lemmings are...are they like small birds that all disapear in the night?

My son did not follow any lemmings over the cliff where he died about three times but was brought back each time and then brought back three more times in hospitals. He lived. He is sober. He doesn't attend AA. He does live in a wheelchair or his bed. End of story.

kelsh

[jimhere]

Kelsh,
Lemmings are small mammals that live in Norway. At times, due to some instinctual urge, individual lemmings run over the edge of cliffs to fall to their deaths in the sea below. Other members follow and soon thousands of them are committing mass suicide, simply because a few of them started it. I used the lemmings as an illustration of a fact-that in A.A. it is easier to follow the popular path that seems easier but leads alcoholics to death or insanity. I've watched this phenomenon over the years. The meeting makers say that meeting makers make it. That may be true for them, but for the real alcoholic it is a death sentence. but the alcoholic, being human is going to seek what seems to be the easier, softer way. I do not even presume to know if that was the case with your son. Obviously it was not.

I do not know your son's story, and I do not presume to know either your pain or his pain. But my heart goes out to both you and he. If you are glad that he is alive and sober, I am glad for you. God bless you both.
Jim

[nandm]

Jim, your post to kelsh was very elequently put. Thank you. That is an example of the program of AA at its best.