Defining moments in sobriety/11th step

[chicago]

Anyone who has been in AA for an extended period has been through the up's and down's of life. my friends and i were talking about dark days in sobriety (not every day will be great). ive had a few times in this program when things were dark. during those moments, all the things i usually stack between me and a drink (meetings, talking to other alcoholics, reading literature) were thrown out the window. the pain and depression was crippling and the only thing between me and drink was GOD. i vividly remember turning off the lights, putting music on, getting down on my knee's, and crying my eyes out. Tears streamed down my face, the hair on my arm stood straight up, and i prayed until i nearly passed out. i have been saved on more than one occasion by the 11th step. when i felt i had nothing in life....completely alone...seeking out God through prayer saved my sobriety. my faith was lost but that little sliver deep within me acknowledged the possibility that something is out there. its this same open-mindedness to the possibility of God's existence in early sobriety that enabled me to start my journey. ive learned that when im immense pain in this program, i need to give my pain over to God because i cant handle it anymore.

anyone have an moments they'd care to share when sobriety was put to the max and you were at you're wits end?

[jimhere]

I remember seeing a readerboard sign at a church. It said "When you are at your wit's end, that is where you will find God." I was early in sobriety, six months away from my last drink. I couldn't stand being sober and gave up and asked for help. I had made another surrender and haven't had to fight a drink since.

My recovery has been a series of awakenings, moving from one surrender to the next. There has been bottoms beyond bottoms and surrenders beyond surrenders.

Chicago, I believe that you are talking about The Dark Night of The Soul, something that isn't talked much about in AA, yet it is a part of the journey. Spiritual people have been experiencing and writing about it for centuries. Most recently, Mother Teresa's dark night has been publicized. Let me tell you about mine.

For eleven years, I was very active in AA. I had awakened early on to the Great Reality and the Presence of God. I sponsored a lot of people, was active in service, did workshops, speaking, etc. At eleven and half years sober, I was very content. Good job, loved where I lived, in love with a beautiful woman, I was an AA rockstar and headed for a fall. Ram Das said that you can climb very high, but you might fall. And that is what happened. One day I woke up and God wasn't there and things began to fall apart-both on the inside and the outside. Things went wrong-she left, the finances went to hell, etc., and I slid into a two year long hole. I lost interest in the things that defined my life and defined my identity. I just went through the motions of sponsorship. I found no refuge in AA meetings or prayer. Up to that point I had practiced centering prayer, twenty minutes every morning. My prayer life just dried up. I never thought once about drinking, but blowing my head off crossed my mind. My prayer became "God either kill me or give me the strength to get up out of bed." I found out that when you pray for strength you get it. You don't get any relief, but you get strength.

One day I woke up to the fact that I had been trying to save my "image" in AA. The old saying that "you can't save your face and your a** at the same time" became very true for me. I had been trying to keep it together. So I surrendered to my condition and fell apart in front of God and everybody.

I found that the steps don't touch the dark night. You can't pray your way out of it. God decides when you enter and when you leave. In my readings I've found that some don't make it through. They drink or end up in the nut ward or committ suicide.

I've also found that AA never got me sober-God got me sober and God keeps me sober. For eleven years I did stuff in AA to stay sober. Now I do things to deepen the awareness of The One who does keep me sober. AA did not keep me sober during the dark time, God did.

Eventually I came out of that period. I'll share with you some of the fruits of that two year long surrender. It freed me up to become myself. I lost my attachment to AA. I am no longer in servitude to AA. I love God for God's sake. I have a new found love of life, simplicity, slince, and solitude. I wouldn't want to go through that again and wouldn't wish it on anyone, but now I'm grateful for it.
Jim


p.s-you may want to read the late Dr. Gerald May's book "The Dark Night Of The Soul." He devotes one whole chapter to what he calls "the dark night of recovery."

[Barto]

I think everyone deserves to be thanked for their sharing, but some members around here really light me up when they share. And that was beautiful. I totally identify with, and believe, what you just wrote. My period away from AA lasted longer than 2 years (after about 12 years of sobriety) and I wound up in urgent care having panic attacks with all kinds of symptoms. Never drank, but had to be medicated to prevent serious health consequences. The doctor gave me no choice. My protests fell on willfully deaf ears. I had always had anxiety, but never like that.

Then I tried the only thing that ever worked in my life, AA. But for some reason, I couldn’t just jump back in despite my doing all the things I knew I needed to do. All the things I’d done before. And I tried like hell. I went back through the steps again two or three times, and not much. I was still dry. This was probably the hardest period of my life, and I am still dealing with the consequences of some of the decisions I made during this time.

I do believe it is all God, just as you say. I also believe AA’s 12 steps are as direct a route to God as an alcoholic can get. God has only recently allowed me back into the light (or out of that dark night). I guess I’ve grown through enough pain so that I have become teachable again.

I’ve never heard this phenomenon put exactly the way you put it, but I love it.

Thank you for your sharing. And thank you too Chicago. Yours was also a beautiful share.


There's no booze in this toast to you guys!

[chicago]

Jim that was the most facisnating post ive ever read. to say that was well put would be an understatement. what you typed was so powerful, it may have changed my life. i am literally speechless. i should print that up and give it to my friend. absolutely radiant....thank you for sharing.

[jimhere]

Chicago,
I've found that every experience I've had, from being a hopeless alcoholic to the one like I described are not for me. I've used up my whole life on me and it nearly killed me and hurt a lot of people. So anything I have is not for me-it is for you. Feel free to pass it on.

And thanks tou as well Barto, I appreciate your kind remarks.
Jim

[RufusACanal]

What a awesome post! Thank you Jim for talking about something that definitely goes by the wayside for many in AA. "Happy, Joyous and Free", is truly a result of recovery; breaking the bondage of beverage alcohol could and should be nothing less. Many of us have poured a central nervous system depressant down our throats for years, some decades and wondered when the other rewards of recovery would take hold as we from time to time felt the dark hand of depression squeezing our soul. Depression is the foe today for many of us. Speaking and sharing only strengthens our collective resolve to diminish the pitfalls of depression. For too long, AA has sidestepped this issue and today many believe "being recovered" is a myth, a story of the first hundred that is outside our reach. This is baloney. You are examples of a new life, yet with each new beginning comes the reality that we are physically damaged beyond the norm and we must be vigilant. I am recovered from a seemly hopeless condition; alcoholism. I still must contend with the damage alcohol craved through my body; depression and more. Brain chemistry is not voodoo, nor is the understanding that those dark times are greater than dopamine attempting to right itself. I am thankful and grateful for your stories and insight. Please remember, we are not broken, we are new creatures living life on life's terms in the Maker's hand.

Best to you.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by jimhere

My prayer life just dried up. I never thought once about drinking, but blowing my head off crossed my mind

The dark night of Recovery

Man can I relate to these. Without a second thought, I know I've felt, and survived these feelings.

This is one of those threads, that just might need to be "stickied".

Thank you everybody.

[Tazman53]

Wow some really powerful shares here which I must give great thanks for, being early in my sobriety your shares have prepared me for a possible future event/events for me.

Jim you mention:

The Dark Night of The Soul, something that isn't talked much about in AA, yet it is a part of the journey.

I have not heard of this, this is something I will need to speak to my sponsor and some other old timers on. I did find a few things in the BB that speak towards AA kind of being a method of reaching only a beginning point in recovery:

The great fact is just this, and nothing less: That we have had deep and effective spiritual experiences* which have revolutionized our whole attitude toward life, toward our fellows and toward God's universe. The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered into our hearts and lives in a way which is indeed miraculous. He has commenced to accomplish those things for us which we could never do by ourselves.

This to me is saying we need to go beyond just AA, on into a true spiritual realm in order to get through "The Dark Night of The Soul".

Here and there, once in a while, alcoholics have had what are called vital spiritual experiences. To me these occurrences are phenomena. They appear to be in the nature of huge emotional displacements and rearrangements. Ideas, emotions, and attitudes which were once the guiding forces of the lives of these men are suddenly cast to one side, and a completely new set of conceptions and motives begin to dominate them.

Another place where to me it seems as though AA and its steps are guiding us to find what this doctor speaks of.

Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.

Here to me it kind of indicates that AA & the BB are but a conduit to "a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem"

Folks I am not preaching with the above quotes, I am asking if in you alls opinions I am getting from the above what you all are saying?

[SaTiT]

well, I'm going through whatever I'm going through at the moment
and i don't like it. I havn't had to drink or use over it, but still don't
like it.lol

The different is, i feel peace or not totally crazy when I talk or
share with another alki.

I phase in and out of negative thinking, but throught meditation
I've learned to just let go of my thoughts as a passing parade.
Kind of like living a meditation or a prayer.lol

I don't feel so in touch with my HP or spiritaul at the moment.
I've read plenty of recovery books or self help books.
It reminds of THE INDIAN SUMMER or Ordinary getting the crap knock
out of him as he retreated to a conner. Then something great
shows up. It would take a miracle for Ordinary to defeat the giant
of darkess. The Dreamgiver told Ordinary to drop all his armor and
swords...Stop fighting... and prepare for a miracle.

I guess that's what I'm doing.lol

Btw, Ordinary only had a white feather in his backpack after
droping all of his weapons.
I don't even have that..lol

[Fluttering]

I love this thread..Been coming to Sr for a while, but for whatever raeson did not come here.

I love this..So many very inspiring and motivating experiences.
So much hope!!!!
There have been many a Dark Night of the Soul for me in recovery..One in particular was after being diagnosed with this terminal disease.... I called a friend several states away...and asked..."Will God still know my heart and my needs when this physical disease takes my mind and my thoughts...How will I pray...How will He know I still desire to know HIm? and many others
Another very dark night was the night a very dear friend passed away...and another that was killed by an drunk driver.

It was not the steps or the ESH in the rooms that kept me going. It was my hearts desire...and when there are no words to pray...I was taught to say..."You know my heart...you know my thoughts...Thy will be done" I will also admit there were times I truly did not understand ..."Thy will be done" and said it in anger.
But when my heart cries out in ernest...I know I have an attentive audience with my God. There are also some songs that are often my prayer as well when the words do not come.
Stiill other times I have learned to just sit in silence..." Silence is golden when you desire God's presence. it closes the racket made by life. With those noices dismissed I have a clear channel. Silence enables me to hear with my heart as God speaks from within."........."Silence invites God into your heart and ignites you with a passion for his closeness...it opens the door where God stands waiting to enter. Silence is a direct path to God's presence. Many of the wonderful gifts that come from God are given insilence"...... It is those times I must just listen...with an open heart.



Thank you for this post...I will print up your stories and place them where I will see them often.

[RufusACanal]

Here is a possiblity for "Why".

http://www.healthrecovery.com/HRC_20...gChemistry.htm

Hypoglycemia and Alcoholism:
Alcoholics Anonymous cofounder Bill Wilson was very interested in the link between alcoholism and hypoglycemia. He collected research papers demonstrating the extent of abnormal glucose fluctuations among alcoholics and sent three different reports on the subject to AA physicians. Wilson's interest was personal as well as professional. For many years, he suffered from depression and other hypoglycemic symptoms. He also consumed huge amounts of sugar and caffeine. Finally, by eliminating sugar and caffeine and making other dietary changes, he stabilized his blood sugar and achieved a sense of well-being.

Study after study has demonstrated that the vast majority of alcoholics are hypoglycemic. In one conducted by J. Poulos, D. Stafford, and K. Carron, fifty outpatient alcoholics and fifty halfway-house alcoholics were compared with a control group of one hundred nurses and teenagers. Of the one hundred alcoholics, ninety-six proved to be hypoglycemic; only fourteen of the nonalcoholic controls were hypoglycemic. A three-year study by Robert Meiers, M.D., in Santa Cruz, California, found that more than 95 percent of alcoholics studied suffered from low blood sugar.

More evidence comes from Kenneth Williams, M.D., an internist at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine and a member of the national board of trustees of AA. Williams has found that a vast majority of his sober alcoholic patients are hypoglycemic; many have told him that their hypoglycemia had been diagnosed even before they started drinking.

Researcher and author Emanuel Cheraskin, M.D., found on the basis of six-hour glucose tolerance tests that between 75 and 90 percent of alcoholics studied were hypoglycemic. "Too much therapeutic emphasis has been placed on psychological factors," says Cheraskin" while more basic biochemical deficiencies and defects in body chemistry have received relatively little attention."

These studies confirm the findings and views of endocrinologist John Tintera,

Glucose Patterns in Health Recovery Center Clients

M.D. After years of research, Tintera concluded that even recovered alcoholics who have been sober for many years continue to suffer the effects of hypoglycemia. He strongly believes that the treatment of alcoholism "centers essentially about control of hypoglycemia... by far the most important part of the physiological treatment of alcoholics is the complete restriction of easily absorbed carbohydrates."

Until their severe fluctuations in blood sugar are stabilized, Tintera warns that alcoholics will be predisposed to depression and what only appear to be "deep-rooted emotional or psychiatric disorders."

Tintera and other researchers who have documented the close connection between alcoholism and hypoglycemia consider psychoanalytic treatment "utterly

unsuccessful [in rehabilitating alcoholics] since the deep-rooted emotional factor is, in reality, physiologically based."

Unfortunately, despite the work of Tintera and many others, few physicians today have a good understanding of hypoglycemia. Some may refuse your request for testing as unnecessary or even dismiss hypoglycemia as a fad disease. Others will test you but misinterpret the results because of the wide variance in diagnostic approaches practiced during the last two decades. For these reasons, you may need to search out a physician who fully appreciates the impact of hypoglycemia on alcoholism and can diagnose the condition accurately.


The reason I'm so sure many alcoholics are hypoglycemic is that during the past ten years I have found that the overwhelming majority at HRC suffer from this disorder. In our study of one hundred randomly selected clients, 88 percent proved to be hypoglycemic. Figure 1 shows glucose tolerance test patterns found among them. Figure 2, gives a breakdown of the types of hypoglycemic curves seen among these one hundred clients. (The sawtooth curve is not shown in Figure 1) Ten percent demonstrated a sawtooth pattern of seesawing insulin and adrenaline release throughout the test after their initial hypoglycemic drop below fasting levels.

[SaTiT]

I'm posistive i have bloode suger level problems.
Becuase I shake and sweat and it feels like I'm going to have
a heart attack or pass out when my bloode suger level drops.

It has gotten better on the years becuase i'm awear of it.
It's still one day at a time. I still have to eat right and excersize right.
Generally, that's the first thing i ask myself, when I'm not totally in the
right frame of mind. Did I eat today ? did I eat proper food and not
junk food or suger loaded food. Did i have too much suger with my coffee.