Is there such a thing as a Relapse?

[RufusACanal]

Have you ever considered that maybe there is no such thing as relapse? This is just a thought, but what if folks just were not done drinking! Is there not enough shame and guilt for the drunk already living in the pit of hell without being tagged again and again by his peers as a loser because the message has not cleared his conscienceness? Members of AA might not want to turn their nose at the man or woman who finds the road rockier. Who is the ultimate authority? A loving god as we understand him. Having said this, isn't it our obligation to carry the message whenever the need arises...even for those so aflected, with the desire to stop drinking but the incapacity to remain honest? These folks are the men and women who need my love and devotion the most; the lost, the weak, the challenged, the poor, the dishonest, the criminal.

[CarolD]

Never once ......after drinking yet again
when I returned to AA ...did I feel unwelcomed.

[scaredykat]

Unfortionally I see this in my area. Anyone that is struggling to stay sober and is in and out of the rooms. It's happened to me since I went back. There a few that haven't said boo to me or even welcomed me back. And there old timers. I just stay away from them. I have a lot of people that do remember me and welcomed me back and gave me a hug. I even got my old sponsor back. I'm very grateful for that.

I promised myself that if i make it to being a old timer. I will never do that to people.

Barb

[barb dwyer]

hi scardey - I got my first sponsor back, too. Great, isn't it?

I'm not sure I'm understanding the thrust here, Rufus ...

In our group we've got the innie-outies .. but no one - and I mean no one .. has trned their back on these people. Even the ones with 'problems other than alcohol'.

"I am responsible. When anyone anywhere reaches out, I want the hand of AA to be there. And for that - I am responsible."

My own 'relapse' ... lasted five years. It wasn't a 'woops - had a beer at the rodeo' kind of thing. I intentionally returned to drinking ... to die. And technically - I succeeded. But when I came back - I was welcomed. And I was stunned that anyone remembered me at all.

I try very hard to remember that every time some of these come back in. There are some of them, like Scaredycat, I steer clear of. For me - it's a surround yourself with the winners thing. Others, I simply have nothing to talk to them about.
But as far as turning their nose - I haven't really seen that in my group.
Not like you're describing.

Maybe I'm not understanding the post?

[Tazman53]

Members of AA might not want to turn their nose at the man or woman who finds the road rockier.

I do not mean to sound confrontational, but what planet is the AA you are speaking of on?

I know AA in my area and other places I have been to meetings would never turn our backs on some one who has relapsed no matter how many times they have. (There are a few members that will after someone has been in & out 10-20 times)

One of our chippers always ends his chip giving with the following statement:

"The doors of AA swing both ways, you can come in and stay as long as you like. You can go back out and stay as long as you can, when you come back we will not say "We told you so", we will say "Welcome, we are glad to have you!""

My experience with AA has been unconditional love, unless some one is disrupting a meeting I have never heard of anyone being shunned.

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

In the groups that I go to, anyone that has come back after relapsing has been not only warmly welcomed, but encouraged and accepted. In fact, this past week at least two speakers that I heard spoke of their relapse. I think we all know that anyone of us could be that person..

[Jhana]

I think when you come back to a meeting after drinking, unfortunately often the responsability falls to you to reconnect. One of the things I hate (and love) about AA is that it is so social; BUT, and this is a big one...we are all still a little bit in the bars. That is to say that we are now enjoying sobriety, however, we may not always reach out to those we should.

I will never forget going back to a bar where I had been a regular TWO YEARS after my last visit, and there were Pam and Joe (my best friends) still on their same bar stools. "Hi!" they said, "Where have you been? We haven't seen you in a couple of weeks!"

Couple of weeks?

Well, in AA, you have to put yourself out there by speaking, or better, going before the meeting starts and talking to the coffee-maker or whomever. We are all still just human, and very limited.

Hugs, Jhana

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by scaredykat

Unfortionally I see this in my area. Anyone that is struggling to stay sober and is in and out of the rooms. It's happened to me since I went back. There a few that haven't said boo to me or even welcomed me back. And there old timers. I just stay away from them. I have a lot of people that do remember me and welcomed me back and gave me a hug. I even got my old sponsor back. I'm very grateful for that.

I promised myself that if i make it to being a old timer. I will never do that to people.

Barb

I see this too. We have one old timer who loudly proclaimed a few weeks back that those who go out again are cowards. He sponsors a bunch of people in the meeting so his words carry some weight. I just don't see how this attitude will help people who are struggling with sobriety, but maybe I'm too sensitive. He also claims that someone who committed suicide in sobriety hadn't done a thorough 6th and 7th. Wow.

[NOMOMERLOTMAMMA]

Jeez, Mike. That's HARSH. I don't think that you are too sensitive. Seems to me that he needs to go back and do his steps..

[RufusACanal]

Thank you, Barb and all. There are those who are sicker than others in my experience. Hopefully, through the work of the steps and the love and guidance of their fellows, each has a true opportunity to recover. We recovered and recovering men and women are not unique, though we are all at different points on the path to a new life.

Lately, I have been reminded of the dire situations that the first members had to endure. In the late 30's and 40's there were not the social services we have today. If you were a drunk, you did not have a safety net. They were outcasts and bums. They died in the gutters of America, lost and forgotten. There was no hand to grab them from going over the brink.

I look at my own life and the perceptions I carried for 24 plus years of going to meetings but not recovering. I did not provide hope to others and I was a drain on the life giving force of the AA community. Looking back, I see many comments here from newcomers as a repeat performance of my early recovery life. So I must conclude that I never relapsed; I just never surrendered, even with dry periods.

I want to remember that those who are sicker are most precious and my tolerance and patience must be intact to serve them. I tend to have not done this in the past, because I followed the easier, softer way and without sounding too rude, I have seen my fellows do the same. "Sticking with the Winners" is for the newcomer, it no longer applies to me if I am recovered. I need to be able and prepared daily to extend the hand to anyone and without count. The folks today, coming into recovery have every reason not to recover. Let me say that again, today, people have every reason not to recover. As a fellowship, we have allowed the spin of a thousand treatment centers, therapists and experts to redefine the simple program of recovery we who are older know and we all have built a network of excuses for failure in a new life. Having said that, I believe the hand of God is on our fellowship, yet we are left to our own management of the gifts given.

Much like the story of the master and his servants, to each he gave a portion of his wealth to multiple in his absence. The first two men applied the faithful lessons learned from their master and returned on the responsibility a profit. The third man, full of fear and indecision did nothing but hide his responsibility and when the master returned was cast out, because he allowed fear to determine his path.

[Tazman53]

I see this too. We have one old timer who loudly proclaimed a few weeks back that those who go out again are cowards. He sponsors a bunch of people in the meeting so his words carry some weight. I just don't see how this attitude will help people who are struggling with sobriety, but maybe I'm too sensitive. He also claims that someone who committed suicide in sobriety hadn't done a thorough 6th and 7th. Wow.

Yep some of the old timers are still sicker then others to. How well a step is worked is IMHO between the person doing the step and thier HP.

[mike_mass]

Originally Posted by merlotmamma

Jeez, Mike. That's HARSH. I don't think that you are too sensitive. Seems to me that he needs to go back and do his steps..

Maybe he does...the thing is he knows the steps probabaly better than 99% of the people in the program I have met. I'm just reminded of the Gospel admonitions against the Pharisees who knew the letter of the Law, but chose to negelect compassion and charity.

[RufusACanal]

Reality can be harsh. Reality for the suffering drinking Alcoholic can be a tragically harsh death. Sensitivity sometimes doesn't cut through the insanity. As parents are we sensitive when our children play in the street with traffic? I am not an advocate of aggresive behavior, I am an advocate on assertive direction both given and received.