I'm so Confused!!!!

[Cathy31]

Hope some of you can help!

I'm doing well in my recovery - I still struggle with self will, but I'm about 16 months clean and sober - no drug or alcohol whatsoever and I'm looking forward to getting my 18 month chip and to getting better each day.

This is my problem - I am going to Amsterdam in 2 weeks time with an old friend - we never drank together so that is cool. For those of you that know Amsterdam (and I think I know the answer to my question, but I wanna put it out there anyway) dope/weed/marijuana is legal.

I was never one for drugs, alcohol was always my DOC. I could always take or leave drugs...which makes me lean towards thinking that I could easily have a joint with my friend, it might be quite nice just to 'escape' for a bit and I am 100% CERTAIN that I am powerless over alcohol so that is not in question...

My question is :

1) If I had a joint - would that be the end of my clean time??
2) Dope is really not my doc, my sister had a glass of wine - she's in NA - and she did not count it nor did I as a relapse...would it not be the same with one little joint?


I really need your wisdom and advice, so anyone that can help I'd be most grateful. I am really talking about one joint and not alcohol or anything. But I DO NOT want to start from day 1 again - and I DO NOT under any circumstances want to release my addiciton again???

Thanks everyone
cathy31
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[Pilgrim]

Hi Cathy,

I am not in great shape to give advice since I am still struggling not to drink. I wanted to say well done on your sober time and for asking for advice.

A man shared in my meeting tonight. He had 17 years sober and was the head of AA in our city for many years. He started taking a few too many codeine tablets a few months ago to help with the pain of the tatoos he was getting. He ended up in rehab three weeks ago.

I think it says in the BB that alcohol is only a symptom for us. Anything mind altering for me is probably a really bad idea since it might open the door for alcohol to talk to me and get the upper hand.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday.

Steph

xx

[Cathy31]

Thanks Steph...good luck with your struggle...glad you going to meetings, I did that for a long time while still drinking, and eventually I got the willingness from God to be willing to give it up altogether. I do not miss it at all - but clearly with this latest temptation, my addictive mind is looking for something else to latch onto! It scares me that while I can be so grateful to God for my recovery I can still want to do such bad things to myself! I mean drugs ARE bad, and I feel like it's kind of a slap in the face to God. I guess I am just so DONE with alcohol and I KNOW my powerlessness so well, I guess I'm just not that convinced about 'other' substances yet and I need to be vigilant.
Thanks for your reply!! I will let you know how I get on.

Cathy31
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[Peter]

We all make our own rules and I do not know what rules you have for yourself, but if I were to INTENTIONALLY pick up a joint and smoke it or INTENTIONALLY down a glass of wine, then in my heart I would have relapsed.

Why?

Because my disease of addiction resides primarily in my thinking. It is my thinking which led me to believe that I need a mind and mood altering substance in order to feel good about myself.This is a lie I believed for years

Although I may not become completely stoned from a single glass of wine or from a few pulls on a spliff. I will still have relapsed because my THINKING has changed. When my thinking changes from one of complete abstainance then I stop RECOVERING.

I do not play games with my disease. I understand the baffling and complex nature of drugs and the subtle lure of my cravings.

This is the rule I make for myself.

[parentrecovers]

hey cathy - if you are worried about it, why smoke the joint?

blessings, k

[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by Peter

We all make our own rules and I do not know what rules you have for yourself, but if I were to INTENTIONALLY pick up a joint and smoke it or INTENTIONALLY down a glass of wine, then in my heart I would have relapsed.

Why?

Because my disease of addiction resides primarily in my thinking. It is my thinking which led me to believe that I need a mind and mood altering substance in order to feel good about myself.This is a lie I believed for years

Although I may not become completely stoned from a single glass of wine or from a few pulls on a spliff. I will still have relapsed because my THINKING has changed. When my thinking changes from one of complete abstainance then I stop RECOVERING.

I do not play games with my disease. I understand the baffling and complex nature of drugs and the subtle lure of my cravings.

This is the rule I make for myself.

Thank you Peter. This is so so true. I have been on the path of recovery now and it's been absolutely crystal clear to me about mind altering substances...I've just come through a tough time sober and I guess I'm wavering and doing that stupid thinking of 'rewarding self' - but yes this is that same old insanity again.

I will post an update after my trip, but all these replies have been so useful, thank you.

Cathy31
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[Cathy31]

Originally Posted by parentrecovers

hey cathy - if you are worried about it, why smoke the joint?

blessings, k

I know, simple, hey! Thank you so much for your reply, I can't tell you how helpful it is just to see it in black and white! THank you!!!!!

Cathy312
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[Astro]

Just my opinion Cathy, but being clean and sober go hand-in-hand, it's not one or the other. The use of any mind-altering substance would be a relapse for me.

Take a copy of the book Living Sober to read on the flight. It's got some good suggestions for dealing with situations that might tempt you.

[Cathy31]

Thanks Astro, I actually have a copy of Living Sober and I will do as you suggest...I mean my friend is not even a user, but would be if I convinced her?!? (i.e. she is non addict and can use 'moderately')

I kind of feel like this is the next hurdle - I am done with alcohol, I never had a problem with drugs so that's probably why my mind is wandering there now...but you are right, using is using is using. And I have to accept I am powerless over substances and don't need them...and although I have used moderately in the past - like once a year or so literally!! - this could be the slippery slope back to alcohol and for me to drink IS to die...just need to realise that drugs/dope is a shortcut to drinking!!!!
Thanks Astro!

Cathy31
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[Astro]

I never had a problem with drugs either, other than "recreational experimentation" woth marijuana and cocaine in my late teens and early 20's, but I'm not taking any chances with my sobriety, it's sorta like Russian Roulette. I was prescribed anti-depressants in my first year sober, but since then I avoid even aspirin, really anything unless something comes up that requires a prescription.

Hey, instead of smoking a joint I'd probably reach for a cigar or flavored cigarette first!

[parentrecovers]

don't forget to enjoy all the art and history in amsterdam - there's a lot of things to do there....k

[Cathy31]

Parentrecovers, oh, I know Amsterdam well and the art and museums are out of this world...so silly that this obsession (!!) has overcome even the beauty of Amsterdam and seeing my special friend again...sick thinking
I will keep you all posted!
PS Astro, I had a cigarette (given up for 7 + yeras now) the other day so I already tried that route, LOL!

[Barto]

I am an alcoholic, but I wouldn’t smoke a joint, and not because I hate being high on weed, which I do. It made me paranoid like LSD used to. Didn’t stop me from smoking it then, though. Still, I think it might lead me back to booze. I didn’t even want to take the prescription meds the doctor insisted I take in the urgent care, but I've since learned that I can take them as prescribed.

I don’t know about all this mind / mood altering talk. This does not come from AA, and cigarettes, caffeine, and even sugar, to name a few accepted substances, are mind / mood altering. So I wouldn’t base it on that. [Than again, this is close to the root of it. It's just a very broad description.]

I’ve seen all kinds of stuff since I joined AA in the 80’s. People have changed their sobriety dates over a hit off a joint, a suicide attempt by pills, and even over drinking one non-alcoholic beer, the latter of which is not mind or mood altering at all. I had to laugh at that one. I think only the first one is valid because the intent was to cop a buzz for no other reason.

Since you asked, my advice is to drink water and entertain yourself by checking out the country. You’ll miss a lot if you get high on weed, and it may lead you back to drinking.

Also, I don’t know that a date is that important, but I would change my sobriety date if I smoked weed. But that’s my opinion, and likely the majority opinion in AA today.

[Cathy31]

Thank you Barto...wow, I look back now on yesterday and i was in a real dangerous place..your inputs helped SOOO much, thank you. This morning I woke up with this sudden moment of illumination - my first thought was - waking up with no shame/hangover etc that ALL I HAVE is my sobriety - and that includes getting high on weed (which by the way I always hated too LOL!!! It was so pointless! LOL!)
I do love my coffee and limit it to 3 cups a day - and I love it. I am also totally addicted to sugar since I got clean and sober - but I am going to leave it at those two and I am NOT going to pick up a joint in Amsterdam. It WILL lead me back to alcohol, even between ysterday and today I *entertained* the thought of one last binge - alcohol wise - OMG!!! So there you go! question answered! I will update on my return, but NOT picking up is the right thing and picking up my 18 month chip soon and REALLy havinog been clean and sober is the RIGHT thing! Thanks Barto! C
sometimes i feel like i am right back at square one of recovery but I've got my clean time and that's a constant - the mind still needs a lorra lorra work!!!
Catjhy31\x

[Signal30]

Anything that provides a chemical/herbal intoxication has a LARGE risk of a possible, if not probable relapse. Alcoholism and drug addiction is a potentially fatal disease. Marijuana can eventually lead to a relapse back to alcohol, and as we know some people who relapse never come back.



Tom

[NoMoBeer]

My Dear Cathy...

For what it's worth -- for me, my drinking is but a symptom -- I have a problem with my thinking and living... I also have a disease which always tells me I DON'T have a disease. If the thinking and living go awry (like they would for me if I smoked weed), the disease would sieze the opportunity to overpower me and I know I'd be in a dangerous place...

Please be careful, let me know when you are going, and I will be praying for you!!!

I am off to Minneapolis MN tomorrow for a few days of business, so may be off the boards for a bit...

Ken

[Cathy31]

Ken
You are so right...I am going from the 14th - 21st - and the more I think about it I KNOW it would be the wrong thing ... on so many levels. Hearing you talk about

"If the thinking and living go awry (like they would for me if I smoked weed), the disease would sieze the opportunity to overpower me and I know I'd be in a dangerous place..."

really makes me think. Thank you my dear friend! Each day I am getting that bit more relieved of this obsession...

Makes me think of P 63 in the Big Book :

...all sorts of remarkable things followed (when we quit playing God and handed it over to him)..established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves...our little plans and designs (LOL! I know THAT one well!) More and more we become interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn.

Pretty inspiring stuff!

See you on the ski slopes - clean and serene!

Cathy31
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