step 5 help

[Debaucher]

I am ready and WANT to do my 5th step... I really am at the point where I have lost interest in my 4rth... you know beating a dead horse...

I am no longer unable to face my darkest most painfull secret... the worst thing I did drunk still hurts but I can face it. I can tell another human what I did... I do not want to face being judged for it by people I know though! I am ashamed of it. I find it despicable...

Ok that being said I wasn't ready to do my 5th for sometime and I was too ashamed to tell anyone that so I dragged my feet for a bit... then my sponsor quit asking me about the 4rth step... quit asking me about the 5th step... he actually stopped showing much interest in me. Which is fine... perhaps good. (this is already getting to long so I'll try to get to the point)....

Today I told him I am ready to do my 5th step... and asked him what I should do. He asked me if I had a pastor/priest. I said not really... which is pretty much the truth. I don't go to church much at all and I have never really made the church my church... it is my wife's... He said... well or a close friend...

He then told me he would do it and consider it an honor but that he was concerned it would affect me, that I would be afraid to be judged and it would lessen his ability to be a good sponsor for me.

Honestly I didn't want that. I wanted him to say... Here call this guy... he is a priest and an alcoholic he has heard 100's of 5th steps and he can help you...

Why didn't I just tell him that?

Ok all you out there past the 5th... what do YOU think I should do... advice... or care to tell me how you picked the person you did your 5th with?

[Peter]

I think we all at some point have fears of being judged when we do our 5th Step. It is a natural fear.

Even though I was afraid of speaking with my sponsor he was able to allay my fears a bit by reminding me that we all had done things which we were deeply ashamed of.

I worked my 5th Steps with my sponsors in the programme, people whom I trusted and had a great deal of respect for. I had no fear that they would ever repeat what I told them but i was mostly afraid they would not like me anymore after I was done reeling off all my sins.Lol.

However, if you really do not have the confidence that your sponsor will remain forever silent on what you tell him then perhaps you are better off talking with a priest.

[dgillz]

A priest/pastor or an attorney. Its the only way for me to do a 5th step. Neither of these people could ever testify against me in court! LOL.

[Slowbriety]

what does your higher power tell you to do?

[lanie67]

I'm not sure that your sponsor is showing the level of committment to you that you deserve in order to feel trusting enough of him to do a 5th step with. Further, you might really trust someone but this particular detail you might want to tell to a priest and the rest to the sponsor. You do not 'owe' the sponsor revelation of this if you are not comfortable with it; the discomfort may be because you feel something is not 'right' there and perhaps you should listen to it. I'm just not sure that a sponsor that shows a 'lack of interest' in you is someone you should trust with something that is causing you so much anxiety. I can't remember for sure if I shared my worst thing with my sponsors in my 5th steps. I have made the amends for them in all but one case because I don't know where the person is, but I'm honestly not sure if I did it as a 5th step. I did admit it to God, like it says, though. It's possible if you give yourself enough time the answer about what is right will come to you. Just don't jump the gun and do something to feel like you have to, and pray about it, also.

[Grasshopper]

Priest or the man/women of the cloth,would be my suggestion.
I told the wrong person,who is in AA.She, has tried to hold my past,like a hammer over my head,for me to do as she wants me to.Says i owe her,for helping me,and me confinding in her.Of course this didnt work.,for her,i let her go.Lucky that i have enough soberiety,that this didnt effect me,or harm me,but it could have ,had i been a newbie.But i was surprised by this.I thought i could trust her,.I mean after all she is in AA/.,right?....Some ARE sicker than others.Pray,on who to trust.Take your time.pray about it.
prayers are with you.

[Tazman53]

Sponsors can be sicker then others, or they can be trusted, I did my entire 5th with my sponsor, of course I trust the man and know him well enough to know my 5th will not shock him, I think there was only one thing I told him that he may not have done and some how I doubt that! LOL

So far you have had some good suggestions, preacher if you really do not want to share it with your sponsor.

Do you trust your sponsor? Just my opinion, but I feel a sponsor can be far more effective if you have done your 5th with them in working the remaining steps and working through possible future issues.

[NoelleR]

Now that you've gotten a few responses re: telling 'things' I thought I'd jump in with what I always like to say about this particular step.....

REMEMBER what the step says, NOT just how others have done it (even the founders) and/or what they included.....such as reading their 4th step.....(uuuuuugggggghhhhhh)

This step says: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the EXACT NATURE of our wrongs.

Just note that this step does NOT say admit all our wrongs.....through my inventory I could see that I was a thief and a liar etc. It was only necessary to list some specific wrongs if I was confused as to where they were pointing me.....to what specific 'nature.'

For me, there's nobody, in aa or out of aa, who knows all the stuff I've done. In fact, very few know any of the stuff I've done.....Now before someone jumps in and says the infamous "We're only as sick as our secrets," I just want to add that it's not that I keep this stuff secret; it's just that, for the most part (unless I find it relevant to a convo, etc.), most of my stuff just isn't anybody's business..... (o:

One final note/suggestion......do find someone you can trust.....trust is very important, and, at least in my opinion, it needs to be earned.....


NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

[Tazman53]

Just note that this step does NOT say admit all our wrongs.....through my inventory I could see that I was a thief and a liar etc. It was only necessary to list some specific wrongs if I was confused as to where they were pointing me.....to what specific 'nature.'

Noelle that is the way my sponsor handled it with me, I handed him my 4th step inventory, he did not even look at it, he asked me for my deepest darkest secret, some how I knew he was going to do that, of course the first thing I had to do was fess up I did not have it on the list....... then I told him, he looked at me and said "That is it?"...... Funny thing, a sense of relief rushed over me, he did a quick scan over my inventory and asked if I had seen any patterns, which of course I did.

Well we talked a while about those patterns and laid out a plan to work on them. He is a BB Natzi and he did not go over my inventory with a fine tooth comb, as Noelle pointed out the 5th is not to expose every single misdeed in our past, but to see where amends are needed and to identify defects in our charaters we need to work on.

[findingout]

Another possibility you might consider is attending an A.A. oriented spiritual retreat. The one I've been attending the past two years has six to eight counselors ( some recovering clergy members, some not ) who are available to hear fifth steps and/or just to talk on one to one basis throughout the weekend.

[lanie67]

Originally Posted by NoelleR

This step says: Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the EXACT NATURE of our wrongs.

Just note that this step does NOT say admit all our wrongs.....through my inventory I could see that I was a thief and a liar etc. It was only necessary to list some specific wrongs if I was confused as to where they were pointing me.....to what specific 'nature.'

Wow, that is brilliant Noelle, no one has ever put it that way to me and I wish they had, they would have saved themselves some time of me rattling off my inventory.

[Debaucher]

Just talking (writing) about this is helping me think about it...

** for some reason I feel I must confess the most evil things I have done. I feel that if I cannot then I am not over them. I haven't truly accepted my past... and therefore am trying to shut the door on it...

As usualy working these steps (for me) is like picking a scab! I was pretty down again... every time I really work on the steps I stir up something... but when I reconcile the issues live is better than before... what is the saying about the pheonix rising again from its ashes...

I really appreciate the things written here... hearing them really helped me...

I am no more sure that I know what I am going to do... but I am more confident I will come to a solution soon... I am no longer searching for the perfect solution.. and am willing to accept the best solution available... OH that all or nothing attitude... the perfect... or not at all thing... lol... progress not perfection

hmm...

[Debaucher]

Ok... I finally talked with my sponsor and just leveled with him and said I want a priest but I don't want to go to the one at my church... it just feels weird to me. I also would like someone who has some experience in these matters. You know it would be nice to do a 5th with someone who isn't going to tell me that I can drink I just need more will power... lol...

He pointed me to a place to call. I looked it up today and I will be calling them soon. I am ready to do this... I will organize my writting from the 4rth once I schedule and appointment... I need to find a time to do this when I can devote the hour afterwards in meditation...

[collinsmi]

Get it done, don't sit on it. A lot more to the 5th than getting out those "deep dark" secrets. If you're not comfortable with your sponsor have you considered another alcoholic? Good you're setting aside some time afterwards, don't forget that last paragraph on pg 75. Also don't forget to tell whoever is hearing it why you're doing this.

[SaTiT]

The 5th is not about a confession and it ain't even going to save my soul.
I came into AA not to save my soul..I work the steps so i don't have
to carry all that damn bagage around.
Did you even make an assest list of yourself ?? when you did the 4th.
The BB describe it as taking an inventory of a store house..a complete
inventory. Not just the bad stuff, but the good too.

Doing the 5th with someone that has experince would probably make more sense.
I don't take my PC to an auto machanic....
Another recoverying alcoholic will have a different perspective and will
also give you hope..becuase he's gone through it.
Sometimes what you preceive to be bad or unforgiving..you might be wrong ?
Sometimes what you precieve as just okay...you might be wrong or you need
to work on it. A sponsor will also piont out your good quilties as will.

me...I would go on forever making a list of all the f-up I did.
but when it came to make an asset list.lol..i had to really, really think about it.
So the nature of wrongs would also be not seeing my good quilities..

you know..sometimes we get into that ..poor, poor pure me another drink.
I'm no good, I'm worthless, i can't do anything right, i don't have anything
to offer anyone.....Well, that's wrong thinking becuase it's not the truth.

[Debaucher]

Thanks saTiT

I know but I feel this is a spiritual event. I only trust 2 people in my life with things this personal... 1 my wife... 2 my best friend. There are certain things I will not tell my wife as it would hurt her to hear them... so she is out... and there are certain things I need to discuss that involve others I cannot share with even my best friend.

No way I am trusting just anyone with such things. Going to a priest is a logical choice for me because I feel I can trust them to keep my secrets secrets. And I would like to take confession after I do my 5th. Not an AA thing... it is personal. It isn't a must but if the priest I do my 5th step with is willing to do it I would like to.

It would be 2 separate events...we do the 5th... when it is done... I say confession...

I spent quite a bit of time thinking and analyzing my 4rth step. writing... meditating... another perspective could be nice... so if the person is a fellow alcoholic then great... but if not... well I am doing my 5th step...

--- I was about to erase this... because it doesn't sound greatful of your response... but I am... because it made me realize that I finally have made a decision to do my 5th... I know how I am going to do it... I am no longer sitting on the fense...

I feel resolute...

I prayed on it.. I meditated I thought... I asked my sponsor... and whamo I feel good about my decision...

That being said thank you SaTiT for writing the 1st sentence... because it reinforced that to me... I needed to hear that... because it is something I have been avoiding... it is something I am leaving undone... (confession)... I think my 4rth and 5th would be incomplete without addressing that issue...

Man honesty with ones self is liberating!

[SaTiT]

I worked the steps many times..
You can share your 5th with different people..i worked it with
different sponsors. The reason being..my sponsor wouldn't help
me in certain issues, and he quicky pionted that out to me.
He didn't have some of the experince I had..and he didn't mind
if I needed to talk to some else about it. He passed on what he
knew.

I wouldn't recommend sharing your 5th with your wife..cause she
might not understand, alot of things.

The 5th is not so much like a judgement...it's more of an evauation.

Luckily for me...my ministor, spiritual advisor is also a recoverying alcoholic.
I got discontent with AA..so I thought I seek other places...
T..t..t..my HP had a funni way of letting me know...
She came into my life when i really needed someone to help me
with a lot of issues. I was 5 years into my recovery. She passed on
what she knew. More tools that i can apply to my life. And told me
to attend AA again.lol I needed that foundation as an ex-drunk.

I prayed to my HP..that somehow the right person would step into
my life for me to share my last 5th ...and that moment came.
He was someone that i could trust..as a friend and also in recovery.
There's best freinds that i have. I share to them about a lot of things
that i wouldn't tell anyone..My true friends would never judge me, they
accept me as i am, and whatever I'm going through. They accept that
I'm a recoverying alcoholic and don't push the issue.

I also have secrets from people in recovery and from my best freinds that'll
I'll carry to my grave..yes it's that level of trust.

Those secrets that I have are not really that important to me..
I don't think about it much. it dosn't really concern me..
Heck i can't even remember half of them.
I'm just glade that people can move on with their lives.

[Debaucher]

My secrets are those that I don't really have any qualms about telling people but I know that there are others who are involved in my debauchery that wouldn't want me telling people about it... Especially folks that know them...

So... I called a place yesterday and the priest that did hear 5th steps died. But... they refered me to another who I left a message for (chance to back out... and I didn't balk)... and he called me back... and I have an appointment for next monday at 6:30 PM.

:-)

[CarolD]

Excellent plan!
Then you can change your user name?????

[Tazman53]

Then you can change your user name?????

LOL Carol!

Cool debaucher, that is a course of action mentioned in the BB for the 5th.

[SaTiT]

I like my current user name, it's my birth name..I'm not ashame of it anymore.
I don't care if the intelligent people can't pronounce it.
I'm above that influence.
See.. how my defects gets removed if I work the steps.
It mean Sunshine or spirit of the Sun. Why the hell should I be ashame of it.
it sounds a bit girly...sunshine..but oh well.
I can live under my own skin and i love myself.
These are some of things i gain by working the 5th and the rest of the steps.

As a kid..man..kids would just had a field day with that..satit.
Even as an aduilt..damn profession would have a tounge twister going with my name..
and all the damn redicue and racial crap..
So..I go by the name of Micheal..cuz i'm an angle.lol
but ya know..it took me a long as time to get comfortable with micheal..
There you go...my parents set my ass up to bend over backwards so I can just fit in.
And i felt a little bit of shame everytime my name was mention...it's the damn thought process
that gose in my head..it's suttle..

My first sign in name was nutz...seriousely,i was going out of
freanken mind.

[Debaucher]

Originally Posted by Tazman53

LOL Carol!

Cool debaucher, that is a course of action mentioned in the BB for the 5th.

"That" refering to what... my plan? or changing my name?