Step 5 question

[dgillz]

Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs

Opinions please. I believe in my 5th step I can say to the other person "Several times, I stole money from family members to get drunk". This is the exact nature of the wrong.

I do not believe I have to say how I did it, or to precisely what family members, or how much, over what period of time, etc.

Am I right?

[thejig]

IMHO....I put the names of people harmed that way when I got to the 8th step, I had my list ready to refer to, on who I was willing to make direct amends to. As I said, just my humble opinion.
Good luck!
AA Hugs,
Jig

[jlo34]

To thine own self be true. Exact nature is not holding anything back. Why is it secretive for you to not disclose who you harmed and how you harmed them? You are not telling the person(s) you harmed (yet)...you are telling your sponsor or whomever you have chosen to share your 4th step with.

The (main) point of step five (in my opinion) is to find your patterns of behavior and see how they have negatively affected your life, your decision, your choices. If you are not completely honest with yourself, you are cheating yourself from this. Step 4 is "made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves".

Blessings,
Jen

[jimhere]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you just follow the directions and see what happens?
Jim

[NoelleR]

As previously posted:

"Please don't take this the wrong way, but why don't you just follow the directions and see what happens?"

"...Why is it secretive for you to not disclose who you harmed and how you harmed them? You are not telling the person(s) you harmed (yet)...you are telling your sponsor or whomever you have chosen to share your 4th step with...."

Absolutely, follow directions, and for me, the directions are in the step itself, "Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs." It matters not how others have done this step, or how they interpret it; I go by exactly what it says....

....and it DOESN'T say to share your 4th step with.....anyone; it DOESN'T say to tell someone all your wrongs (ie: from whom I stole; what I stole)......

BUT

What this step does say is to admit the exact NATURE of your wrongs.....I'm a thief.....


NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

[dgillz]

Jim,

I am trying to follow instructions, its just that the instructions are open to interpretation. Hence the post. Why don't you respond to my post?

In terms of when I get to step 9, making amends, I have this as detailed out as you can imagine. I have to, or I will never be able to make amends.

However step 5 again says "exact nature of your wrongs". If I say "I stold money", is that not the exact nature of my wrong? I say it is.

[dgillz]

Jlo,

I disagree, "exact nature" does not equal every detail of, in this case, theft. I believe these details do need to come out in step 4 to examine your behavior patterns as you indicated, but the step 5 admitting to another person only requires the "exact nature" of the wrongs be admitted, not a step-by-step how-to memior of every wrong I ever did.

Just curious, any Catholics out there care to tell me how you confess to a priest? I was brought up Methodist, so I have never confessed to anything -- its just not a part of my religion.

[NoelleR]

dgillz ----

First off, do you have a sponsor? With a sponsor, all these questions you're asking would be academic.....

and again....as I stated....'exact nature' is NOT 'I stole xxx' or 'I stole yyyy'...in your 4th step you list what you stole and from whom, etc., but in your 5th step, the exact nature of those wrongs would be "I'm a thief."

So......I suggest you go back and reread what I wrote earlier.....it's really simple, and like I said, the directions are right in the steps....

Not being a catholic, I can't comment regarding their confessional, however, I do know that their confessing, and absolution, is NOT a 5th Step....but many priests know about AA and recovery (many are in AA and recovery....lol), and perhaps a priest could help you with understanding just what you need do for your 4th and 5th steps...........and STOP worrying about your amends in Step Nine......you've got a long way to go to get there.....be patient.

Again.....my question still stands re: do you have a sponsor? If you don't, my suggestion is that you get one, and let them guide you through the steps....


NoelleR
DOS: 6/23/86

[Music]

Originally Posted by dgillz

Opinions please. I believe in my 5th step I can say to the other person "Several times, I stole money from family members to get drunk". This is the exact nature of the wrong.

I do not believe I have to say how I did it, or to precisely what family members, or how much, over what period of time, etc.

Am I right?

Ok!! You asked for opinions, and when you get them, you want to argue. The Big Book stresses being "thorough" when doing steps 4 and 5. To be "thorough" means to disclose everything honestly. If you're not going to be thorough when doing the steps, it's a sign that you're willing to cut corners in your sobriety, and personally, I wouldn't advise that.

[Tazman53]

My sponsor is a BB Natzi, when we did my 5th it was not down to nitty gritty details, the 4th was detailed because as others have already pointed out this aides us in the steps to come, the 4th & 5th workingwith my sponsor showed me the patterns I have and what I need work on over all.

The 5th taught me that being a liar and very self centered was the root cause in almost all of my other defects. Many of these defects I was fully aware of and had already done a complete about face on. The being a liar portion is the one I am doing very well on....... where I have a lot of work yet to go on is being self centered.

[REZ]

I believe it is important to get at the patterns and the details, but obviously I can't write down all the details. I stole from people I don't even remember. But I do have some vivid memories of stealing from specific people at specific times for specific reasons, and I need to write these down because they help me to understand my patterns.

[Tazman53]

For the 4th step my sponsor told me if I found myself writing the exact same thing but different names more then three times it may be wiser to just write the names and what I did to all of them! LOL

Rez there are an awful lot of names I do not remember, as a matter of fact sadly some of the most dog things I did on a regular basis for many years I can only recall a single name, but even if I could remember them making amends would very possibly hurt not just them, but those they love.

[best]

Admitted to God,

to ourselves,

and to another human

Accountability to God

Acceptance for ourself (ownership of our wrongs)

Assurance that it is in our heart (humbled)

[jimhere]

Originally Posted by dgillz

Jim,

I am trying to follow instructions, its just that the instructions are open to interpretation. Hence the post. Why don't you respond to my post?

In terms of when I get to step 9, making amends, I have this as detailed out as you can imagine. I have to, or I will never be able to make amends.

However step 5 again says "exact nature of your wrongs". If I say "I stold money", is that not the exact nature of my wrong? I say it is.

I did answer your post. And I think your questions have been answered by the other posters.

The "exact nature" of your wrongs goes a little deeper than just what you did. The exact nature concerns the thinking behind the action. If you've written a Fourth Step as outlined in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous, you should be able to see where you were selfish, self-seeking, dishonest, frightened, and inconsiderate.

If you haven't written an inventory in the fashion laid out in the book, I would suggest, as have a few others that you find someone that has done that to show you how to do that.
JIm

[SaTiT]

Willingness
God already knows...its so i know that god knows or

" look dude... see all this crap that's wack out, it aint good for me,
For the life of me even tho i know it's not good for me, I like doing
this crap. That's the nature of it all...it's that i just like it ..ya know.
And there's so much wreakage and I'm going to need some help
repairing things. So if you're not too bussy i appriciate it if you look
in on me from time to time. And dude...some of this stuff is too damn
hard for me to figure out, so some instructions every now and then
would be cool too. I'm willing and all, but sometimes i don't have
any means of how to get there...So please help.
Btw..this damn load on my back is heavy and i'm tired of carrying it now
Thanks god...i hope you' re listening...if not that's okay
I'll go find some poor soul to dump on this crap on...mmm..like my sponsor.
That's the ticket. He's been acting like god anyhow...telling to do
all this inventory stuff".lol


A bridge or a practice to establishing a relationship with another human-being.
Learning how to be open and communicate. Learning to trust again.
Learning not to hide

Getting another perspective or piont of view.

Sharing with a sponsor works better becuase a sponsor can share his
ESH...that is if he dosn't fall asleep.lol
There by this is not a confession to a preist. A sponsor might have a semilar
or worst experience.

[fraankie]

just get a pen and paper
and
start writing

remember,
this is a once in a lifetime deal
to get it all out
and
put some good stuff down, too

i understand your reserve
but
this is between you, your sponsor and God
it's for you
all my years in Aa
i have never heard anyone
as in noone
share ot gossip
"john d. in his fifth step told me he took money from his mother's purse
when he was a kid"
so
it's for you
if you are going to kvetch on it
then you'll kvetch on the meeting,
kvetch on the steps, etc

honesty,
there is no format
but
for me,
in my 4th step
i had to get into the particulars,
dates, amounts, relationships, times, places, things, etc


best
fraankie

"kvetch????????????????????"

[jlo34]

If you still have questions or doubts as to our suggestions, please feel free to read the Big Book regarding step 5 and pick up the 12&12 and read up on step 5. As they say, "the answer are all in THE BOOK".

What did your sponsor suggest? Did your sponsor think you should divulge a bit more detail or....

Jen