12th step questions.

[Tazman53]

Sometimes it is wise to wait till he goes on a binge. The family may object to this, but unless he is in a dangerous physical condition, it is better to risk it. Don't deal with him when he is very drunk, unless he is ugly and the family needs your help. Wait for the end of the spree, or at least for a lucid interval.

1. Why is it suggested to wait until the end of a binge or a lucid interval during a binge?

Call on him while he is still jittery. He may be more receptive when depressed.

2. Why the preference while he is still jittery and depressed?

But say nothing, for the moment, of how that was accomplished.

3. Why hold back the solution we found at this point?

Don't, at this stage, refer to this book, unless he has seen it and wishes to discuss it.

4. Why hold back on it unless he knows about it and wishes to talk about it?


I have what I feel are the reasons, but would like to see others opinions with more time then I have in the program.

[SaTiT]

the bottom... hopefully

pain...it's not working, feeling glims of it , thats why he's shaking

he has to figure it out for himself, no quick fixes or we don't fix people.

no lecture to endure...he has to want it

[Rusty Zipper]

taz, online this one aint easy to keep simple... i'll give it a whril...

1... aint get'n nothing through a drunk on a run... thick head...

2... as the booze is wear'n off, the i have to stop this crap, and aint do'n that anymores are kick'n in...

3... only give the solution if the drunks asks for one... the ego of a alk'y will think he thought up the idea!

4... cuz if a drunk ever saw that book, and never saw it before... then read a bit... most if they here the word God... will run for the hills...

we know differant...or i should say i know differant now...

ah, viv'a the powers that be... God, HP, The Big Bang theory, the chicken or the egg... for me... it just doesnt matter... i know that i'm not god...

good 12th step work is one of the joys of recovery... help'n a drunk, and give'n back...

taz, i hope some of this may help...

yep, i also follow directions... lol

xxoo, bless... rz

ps taz... i got 12th step'd about five years before i surendered, and didnt even know it... someone gave me a copy of the living sober book... i stashed it in a drawer... on surender day, i was look'n for what i did not know in a desk... saw that book... called the local intergroup.. the dude said.. .you nit wit... theres a meeting right acroos the street from you... arg... taz, help was 40 feet away... problem... i wasnt ready to ask for help...

[SaTiT]

RUSTY

damn AA meeting was 2 doors down from the bar.
address = 5150 main.lol

[Rusty Zipper]

who would'a SaTiT... lol

and the real deal... no fool'n... the address was 50 so.main... home of the world famous panal of experts... (alive again)... and that what i am... alive

[SaTiT]

I'm tell'in ya...there stuff like that's a trip.
And I can't explain it....I have too many experience like that.
Just like I went to the park that oneday.

here's another
Once i was on the freeway after I left my house. after I went to the bathroom and everything. 5 miles later...I had to go #2 stupid bad.
So I came home, then i smelt gas from my car.
I pop the hood and one of the fuel injects was shooting gas
all over the engine. It had a puddle on the intake manifold and almost
was going to over run onto the exhust manifold.
Holi sheit !!! another 5 miles...I wouldn't be here type this.
But i went to the bath room already just to make sure i wouldn't need to
go on the road.....you know what i mean.

Then later that night..i saw on the news. Someone's car blew up
becuase of a gas leak....no lies

I was on my way to the casino, but i knew I had a problem
and I pray for the good lord to help me stop....
I wasn't too especific.lol....no lies

somebody & something is wacthing over me.

that why sometimes we have to get out of the way for miracle to happen
it's all related somehow.

[Rusty Zipper]

SaTiT

somebody & something is wacthing over me.

and as long as we keep listening to that something... all is as it should...

hey, PM me back with the explaintion to my reply to your PM... cripes, that shure sounds confusing to see in print... oh-well... self will says... keep it in... lol...

xxoo, bless... rz

[jimhere]

It is a good idea to wait until the alkie's head is clear. Ever try to talk with a drunk? I won't, unless it is a life or death situation requiring maybe some more booze or a trip to the hospital.

Why call on him when he is jittery and depressed? Because at the point the ego is gone. It takes the alcoholic ego about three hours to rebuild and reinvent itself. For an alcoholic at this point, feeling better is a dangerous condition, because in that there is false hope. The more hopeless he feels the better.

As for holding back-I don't know about the early days, but these days, most alcoholics have had some exposure to AA and may have been sitting around AA meetings where we screw them up. They already know everything. Have you ever been to a de-tox meeting? It is usually the chronic relapsers who talk the most, and it is always about what they are going to do "this time." They know just enough to be dangerous to themselves and everyone else.
Jim

[jlo34]

I agree with all that's been said. The big thing to remember is this book was written in the 30s/40s with the experience they had being in the 20s, 30s, and 40s. There was very little knowledge of AA. There were only the Oxford Group and the Washingtonians. From what I have heard...both had their own issues...(though they helped numerous people).

Good questions Tazman...
Blessings,
Jen

[PineappleTea]

I believe the answer to all your questions is this... That it describes the point at which he/she might be actually interested in hearing what you have to say.

And you know, it's "attraction rather than promotion".

If the person is not interested in hearing it, there's really no point in telling the person anything.
These people are adults, and free to make their own choices.

I know I'm not interested in being a busy body or a bully.

I'm only interested in passing the message of recovery to those who are interested in receiving it.

And, as it says in the BB, if I spend my time trying to push the message on someone who's not interested, I might be denying another person that message, someone who really is interested.

[IO Storm]

1. Because, pure and simple, the foggy brain cannot retain

text references! And with so many groups, cults, etc..

you see that picture.


How many times, over and over, and over, again, do we

hear precious newbies who have that fire and are catching

on with whatever their court ordered, or therapy demands

or what not. They ask US a lot of questions. We should be

ready to quote a lot of Big Book when the time is right.

Or, a newbie stumbles onto a thread, more worried about

a friend sicker than they are, we pray for them, talk to

them, they go to meets, and recover. You don't throw the

text in their face. It is shared.

The psychology about it is, like they use to tell Christian

partners to leave tracts around, or codies to leave

pamphlets or Big Books around, BF used to make ME

read codi books. I despised that. I was abused horribly

long before he showed up and Melody Beattie is a friend

o' mine.

The point of mental lucidity I believe is when to reach

them when the abyss is yawning, they sense strongly

happy drinking days are over, family wants them to get

help or get out, and they are quite possibly ready for the

big question; are you sick and tired of being sick and

tired?

This, this is the 12th Step call, when the Bill and Bob

magic comes. Sharing only the personal story. Offering

your experience with alcohol, what happened, and how

it is today.

Let em' talk, offer a phone number, a ride, (to a meeting?)

And always, pray first.


Love,





Sherry


Second time, might visit and read from, and then leave a text.

Any way, got me all stirred up.

[Tazman53]

Wow lots of good stuff here folks, when I first posted this up my head was not really screwed on straight, I was looking to make a point when in reality I should have been getting in better tune with my HP!

The time will come for me, not sure when, but I want to be as ready as possible for when the time comes...... it very well could be some one very near to me, for now I pray, stay sober, go to meetings, do service work, continue to work the steps...... step 8 right now, the list is pretty darn easy and thank God the majority of amends I need to make are with people who are ecstatic I am now sober..... Actually so far there is only one person I may have some issues with on step 9..... my ex, she has a lot of well deserved resentment against me and I have a lot with her as well, but that is her inventory and not mine, I have forgiven her, I have to other wise I will never forgive myself.

Thank you all.... and I need to thank my HP for not letting me get back to this until I was more in tune with him and wound up making an arse out of myself.

[Peter]

Sometimes I did not always understand the "why's" in AA but it helped me a lot to trust in people who had found a better way than I how to deal with the problem of alcoholism.

[Sheryl85]

Hello Peter!!!! Great to see you!!!!!

[IO Storm]

Thanks Taz:

Maybe soapboxing ain't so bad sometimes.

I think the key is to meditate, pray, allow HP to

guide, not my will but Thine....

Can't lose when the game is played that way.


Love,

:

Sherry